Buying a 150 to get PPL, few questions

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SaltH2OHokie

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Ryan
First, Hello...

I've seen the question asked, but perhaps not from the specific angle I'm coming from. Having run the numbers, I've come to the conclusion that a purchase of a less than 500hr, current annual Cessna 150 or 152 would be a better financial move, for me personally, than renting while getting PPL + some hours. I recognize fully the "unknowns" that I'll be taking on and having owned numerous boats, motorcycles and a sporty car or two, I realize that it's more accurately stated as "definitely going to cost you...just a matter of when".

I'm comfortable with that aspect.

Problem I'm having is actually how to jump in. I have no real close contacts in the fixed wing world. I have a friend/neighbor who's a commercial helicopter pilot...not a lot of specific experience to transfer to a Cessna. That's about it for first hand associates who fly. I have a line on what looks to be a reasonable prospect for purchase, but as of current, haven't found a CFI to instruct me in my plane I intend to purchase, in my area (southeastern VA). Further, I'd like to get some sort of pre-purchase inspection done, and ideally have someone to fly it (test flights a thing?) and then possibly fly it home.

Any thoughts on where to start?
 
I hope your looking for an airplane with,500 since overhaul. You may have a better time looking for a 172. Surprised your having a hard time finding a CFI. If you have to go to a flight school ,and use their instructor in your airplane.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Less than 500 hours? Good luck.
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On engine, sorry for lack of clarity there...realize it makes a difference.

Unless I've been misinformed (not a rarity) airframe hours are not as relevant as condition and engine hours since last overhaul?
 
Your idea is good, and should work if you cover all the bases. Find a CFI (good chemistry crucial), perhaps in a local flight school, and ideally get him involved in the purchase. After all, he'll strap his butt to that thing as much as you, at least until you solo. He might also have A&P friends who can help you with the pre-buy inspection and ongoing maintenance. He might even help you sell it off when you want to upgrade.
 
You sure you don't want to get a 7AC or a chief, C120 or something?
 
I think it's a toss up. I'd have a smart ap look at the airplane very carefully. Who overhauled the engine? what did they do to it. ? It's a crap shoot. You could be ok or you could wind up spending a good bit more than necessary. Remember that log books are often fairy tales and often times damage is not entered. Personally I would use the FBOS 172 or what ever they are training in, as You may not even finish and become uninterested,etc. 150s are old airplanes and probably were trainers and were banged around some. Caveat emptor.
 
James331 said:
You sure you don't want to get a 7AC or a chief, C120 or something?
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Excellent idea but finding a good instructor in one of them might be difficult. Then he has to prop it or find someone to prop it while he puts on the brakes,etc. no question he would wind up being a better pilot if he could pull this off. Well worth considering.
 
It's not that bad, I did my first solo-PPL and later CPL land add on in a 7AC, and you're right, you'll be a much better pilot for it and you'll have way more fun too :)
 
RotorDude said:
Your idea is good, and should work if you cover all the bases. Find a CFI (good chemistry crucial), perhaps in a local flight school, and ideally get him involved in the purchase. After all, he'll strap his butt to that thing as much as you, at least until you solo. He might also have A&P friends who can help you with the pre-buy inspection and ongoing maintenance. He might even help you sell it off when you want to upgrade.
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That's my current issue. Google produced zero CFI's within an hour. Call to rotorcraft neighbor for a recommendation on fixed wing CFI netted 1 name and a less than ringing endorsement.

SkyDog58 said:
500 on engine does make more sense and should be easily had. Good luck.
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Thanks!

James331 said:
You sure you don't want to get a 7AC or a chief, C120 or something?
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I'm not sure of anything at this point. :)

Jimmy cooper said:
I think it's a toss up. I'd have a smart ap look at the airplane very carefully. Who overhauled the engine? what did they do to it. ? It's a crap shoot. You could be ok or you could wind up spending a good bit more than necessary. Remember that log books are often fairy tales and often times damage is not entered. Personally I would use the FBOS 172 or what ever they are training in, as You may not even finish and become uninterested,etc. 150s are old airplanes and probably were trainers and were banged around some. Caveat emptor.
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Lack of rentals (literally have to drive more than hour, with tolls each way to get to one) is part of what's driving the "purchase" plan. But your advice is not unappreciated.
 
Just tossing this out there, it's only worth what you paid for it ;)

As a higher time ATP/CFI

If a student approached me and asked me to train them up in their own plane..

If it was a C150/2 or 172, meh, I'm kinda busy, I'd have to think about it, and only if they knew some of the same people, or had a connection to me.

If it was a 7AC or C120, Id be all about it.
 
I would look for a nice aeronca champ on trade a plane or barnstormers. Lots of fun but a nice one will be twenty five grand or more, recently recover , low time engine , etc. fly it for two hundred hours and you could easily transition to a mooney, bonanza etc. I'd find one with 85 hp and electric start. I had one and it was lots of fun. Easy to fly, good visibility , cheap to operate. It was completely rebuilt five years before I bought it. An airline captain sold it to me for thirty grand and I sold three years later for 33 grand. It was in stellar condition, always hangared. Also had a transceiver and transponder. Nice. It was never left outside from the time it was rebuilt which was important! They go south quickly if left outside.
 
Do you have a hangar or tie down available? That's important to have and it's costs. Hang around the airport you intend to train out of, ask questions about local instructors. Consider getting the medical early so no surprises.

Also, keep mind future IFR training and the required equipment. Maybe you won't go this route, but at least consider the ramifications of the avionics on any plane you purchase.
 
Badger said:
Do you have a hangar or tie down available? That's important to have and it's costs. Hang around the airport you intend to train out of, ask questions about local instructors. Consider getting the medical early so no surprises.
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Any thoughts on where to find a CFI if there isn't one at local airport?

Tie downs available for reasonable cost at only paved runway for an hour + in either direction of my house; wait list for the few hangars at said airport. Possible hangar space at 2 different grass strips within 15 minutes of my house. I live in a rural area with lots of pilots, lots of grass strips, lots of plane owners (I say this with my only backup being I can count 5 grass strips that are in use within 15 minutes of my house)...just sadly haven't met the right owner yet who is a CFI and wants a student. I think I need to just leave my cell number in the hangar door of a few of the grass runways around me. I know "of" the owners, but don't know any personally. Paved runway has a flying club with a 172, but multiple inquiries have gone unanswered. No other rentals or instructors that I'm aware of.
 
SaltH2OHokie said:
That's my current issue. Google produced zero CFI's within an hour. Call to rotorcraft neighbor for a recommendation on fixed wing CFI netted 1 name and a less than ringing endorsement.
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Why use Google? It knows nothing about these things. Use the FAA database directly, and search for CFIs in your area directly, find their phone numbers, and call them up. Don't rely on rotor guys for that, from experience (partially being one) I can assure you they (i.e. the vast majority) know next to nothing about primary fixed wing training.
When you reach people, be sure to ask them about possible pointers to others if they can't help you directly.
 
ifly4fun said:
Where in SE VA? I'm in Suffolk, and can certainly recommend some.
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Used to live in Suffolk (just south of the airport...and still have our place there, that would love to sell...if you know anyone hunting for land, it would up my plane budget). Currently up on the Eastern Shore. Would love a recommendation.
 
James331 said:
Just tossing this out there, it's only worth what you paid for it ;)

As a higher time ATP/CFI

If a student approached me and asked me to train them up in their own plane..

If it was a C150/2 or 172, meh, I'm kinda busy, I'd have to think about it, and only if they knew some of the same people, or had a connection to me.

If it was a 7AC or C120, Id be all about it.
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Finding a CFI who has taildragger experience might be tough. When I was instructing we regularly got calls from people looking for taildragger pilots or instructors. Shoot, some instructors can barely fly trikes; and worse yet, have never spun any airplane, especially an old airplane that far more eager to spin than a 150 or 172.

But yeah, considerably better outcome with the taildragger. One learns to use their feet, and spin training in one of those oldtimers is truly enlightening. The lack of a decent panel in most is the drawback.

A 100-hp Champ will outperform a 150 every which way.
 
RotorDude said:
Why use Google? It knows nothing about these things. Use directly, and search for CFIs in your area directly, find their phone numbers, and call them up. Don't rely on rotor guys for that, from experience (partially being one) I can assure you they (i.e. the vast majority) know next to nothing about primary fixed wing training.
When you reach people, be sure to ask them about possible pointers to others if they can't help you directly.
Click to expand...

Link required a last name to search ...entered my info..."required info" for a query was "last name" of airman. Unless I'm missing something.
 
Eastern shore definitely adds some complexity.. I wish I knew some contacts up there for you
 
SaltH2OHokie said:
Link required a last name to search ...entered my info..."required info" for a query was "last name" of airman. Unless I'm missing something.
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You can download the entire database as an excel file and sort it/search it
 
SaltH2OHokie said:
Link required a last name to search ...entered my info..."required info" for a query was "last name" of airman. Unless I'm missing something.
Click to expand...

That's a government site, and they want to avoid 'bots etc. So they want you to tell them who you are, then they let you search whom/whatever you want.
 
Eastern shore is a different animal. Your best bet is to ask around to other pilots and find out who they're using to do their flight reviews. I believe there is another POA member based at MFV if I'm not mistaken. Good luck.

PS- never heard eastern shore VA referred to as "south eastern VA".
 
James331 said:
Just tossing this out there, it's only worth what you paid for it ;)

As a higher time ATP/CFI

If a student approached me and asked me to train them up in their own plane..

If it was a C150/2 or 172, meh, I'm kinda busy, I'd have to think about it, and only if they knew some of the same people, or had a connection to me.

If it was a 7AC or C120, Id be all about it.
Click to expand...

In this hypothetical situation, call me if James won't fly with you in your C150. I'll fly with you. (actually stole line from Top Gun). :D
 
Another angle: connect with an officer of the closest EAA chapter. They might know someone who knows someone....
 
Brad Z said:
Eastern shore is a different animal. Your best bet is to ask around to other pilots and find out who they're using to do their flight reviews. I believe there is another POA member based at MFV if I'm not mistaken. Good luck.

PS- never heard eastern shore VA referred to as "south eastern VA".
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I'm on southern end of shore... And it doesn't get any more 'eastern' :)

I've texted an acquaintance who has a good friend that is a pilot up here. Hoping something pans out there.
 
Ain't got no time for trikes
 
SaltH2OHokie said:
First, Hello...

I've seen the question asked, but perhaps not from the specific angle I'm coming from. Having run the numbers, I've come to the conclusion that a purchase of a less than 500hr, current annual Cessna 150 or 152 would be a better financial move, for me personally, than renting while getting PPL + some hours. I recognize fully the "unknowns" that I'll be taking on and having owned numerous boats, motorcycles and a sporty car or two, I realize that it's more accurately stated as "definitely going to cost you...just a matter of when".

I'm comfortable with that aspect.

Problem I'm having is actually how to jump in. I have no real close contacts in the fixed wing world. I have a friend/neighbor who's a commercial helicopter pilot...not a lot of specific experience to transfer to a Cessna. That's about it for first hand associates who fly. I have a line on what looks to be a reasonable prospect for purchase, but as of current, haven't found a CFI to instruct me in my plane I intend to purchase, in my area (southeastern VA). Further, I'd like to get some sort of pre-purchase inspection done, and ideally have someone to fly it (test flights a thing?) and then possibly fly it home.

Any thoughts on where to start?
Click to expand...
Check controller or trade a plane to get some ball park figures of pricing. Finding a CFI to train you in a 150 should be a dime a dozen, what's the issue there? If they're not capable of that, you better rethink hiring them. And yes, test flights are a thing.
 
Ryanb said:
Finding a CFI to train you in a 150 should be a dime a dozen, what's the issue there?
Click to expand...

Finding a flight instructor within a reasonable distance of your home base can be tougher than you think, when you reside in a somewhat sparsely populated area. The fact that the OP is looking at buying an airplane due to lack of available rentals in his area might imply that there isn't going to be an abundance of instructors either. It's a simple matter of flight instructors/pilots migrating to where the work is.

But, even in relatively low population areas it seems like there are a few instructors around. They may not actively instruct but may be convinced to, if asked. That's how I received much of my post primary training.
 
Buy the 150, get your license then rent the 150 to other students. let it pay for itself then scrap it if you can't sell it.
 
With all those grass strips around, sounds like you need a C140 or a Champ.

Nothing wrong with going to those airports on a nice day, hanging around, and just talking to pilots that show up. Most ive met are happy to help or just talk about planes to strangers.

When doing a prebuy, don't use the owners mechanic to check out the plane. Otherwise, any reputable mechanic should be able to prebuy a C150. Note i did say reputable. Not all mechanics are equal. Get a recommendation.
 
Having sort of done what you have done I have some information that might be useful.
First off you ae going to save a ton of money vs renting an airplane. I saved around 20K just in flight time i put on it. second thing, get one with a LOC/VOR, this will help with your IFR training on down the road too. Third, make sure you set up an emergency fund/ Maintenance fund you are putting money into every week. I was putting back all the extra money I saving from renting towards maintenance. Fourth, find one with a high useful load. Mine had 510 useful and that was cutting it close with two folks and full fuel. Fifith, when you sell it expect to get less than you paid for. But remember you just saved a bunch of money from not renting.

Now that I've said that, the engine time thing I wouldn't worry about the hours as much as if it's been taken care of. You can find a 500-hour engine but how often does it fly and what was down on the annuals. Mine had been sitting a while when I got it and I had carbon build up. Which can lead to valves sticking in the summer months and you don't want that to happen. No matter what you get, buy some TCP and cam guard. It'll clean out the engine and make sure the build up will be at a minimum.

Good luck finding you a bird!
 
blurceo said:
Having sort of done what you have done I have some information that might be useful.
First off you ae going to save a ton of money vs renting an airplane. I saved around 20K just in flight time i put on it. second thing, get one with a LOC/VOR, this will help with your IFR training on down the road too. Third, make sure you set up an emergency fund/ Maintenance fund you are putting money into every week. I was putting back all the extra money I saving from renting towards maintenance. Fourth, find one with a high useful load. Mine had 510 useful and that was cutting it close with two folks and full fuel. Fifith, when you sell it expect to get less than you paid for. But remember you just saved a bunch of money from not renting.

Now that I've said that, the engine time thing I wouldn't worry about the hours as much as if it's been taken care of. You can find a 500-hour engine but how often does it fly and what was down on the annuals. Mine had been sitting a while when I got it and I had carbon build up. Which can lead to valves sticking in the summer months and you don't want that to happen. No matter what you get, buy some TCP and cam guard. It'll clean out the engine and make sure the build up will be at a minimum.

Good luck finding you a bird!
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Do not put cam guard in the 0-200. and do not use aero shell 15-W-50 in either. specially if you have a key start.
And why would you except less when you sell. during the ownership it should have been maintained in as good condition s when bought.
 
I bought my 150 with the intent to build 300 hours and get my IR in it. After I'm done, I could give the plane away for free and be ahead compared to renting.
 
mondtster said:
Finding a flight instructor within a reasonable distance of your home base can be tougher than you think, when you reside in a somewhat sparsely populated area. The fact that the OP is looking at buying an airplane due to lack of available rentals in his area might imply that there isn't going to be an abundance of instructors either. It's a simple matter of flight instructors/pilots migrating to where the work is.

But, even in relatively low population areas it seems like there are a few instructors around. They may not actively instruct but may be convinced to, if asked. That's how I received much of my post primary training.
Click to expand...
If that fails, one idea could be to buy a plane, base it near his house, find an instructor that may be an hour away.

Go to that instructor and do a couple of weekends to solo. Ie, arrange that he/she will fly with you both Saturday and sunday (and maybe Friday if you can take a 1/2 vacation day) for a couple of consecutive weekends until they are comfortable giving you solo priviledges.

then, you can fly out of your home airport and fly to pick up the CFI for dual lessons. you'd still have to be talking to the CFI before every flight to review weather/etc, but no reason not to do that via the phone I think.

I would think you could make this work if you can have your own plane, and find an instructor who can do some focused time with you.

WRT which plane to pick. the only downside ot the 150 will be as others have said, if you plan to take a buddy golfing after you get your certificate or take your wife away for the weekend, useful load may be an issue and you might be ahead to get a simple four seater. you can also consider the avionics and if you are even thinking about IR later, you might want to buy a plane with at least workable IFR instruments so that you have that option in the future and don't have to trade planes again.
 
RotorDude said:
[...] It knows nothing about these things. Use the FAA database directly, and search for CFIs in your area directly, find their phone numbers, and call them up. [...]
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Exactly.
Gleim also has a database: https://www.gleim.com/aviation/directories/index.php?avTab=cfi&search=us&selectState=VA#avTab=cfi
And so does the NAFI: http://www.nafinet.org/member_directory.aspx

Hanging an own plane available is priceless, eve if it turns out to be a little bit more expensive than renting: Pride of ownership, no scheduling issues, nobody else messes with it.

Nothing wrong with 150s / 152s, be aware however that you will most likely quickly outgrow it. Unless you really want to use it exclusively for flight training, you might also want to think about what you want to do with it after you've earned your ticket. Personally, unless all you want to do is to poke holes in the sky, I would buy nothing less than at least a basic 4-seater like an older 172 or a PiperPA-28-140. A 150 is a pretty tight fit for two adults, with full tanks you also immediately run into useful load issue, if you want to take a second, average weight, person.

Also, if you are planning to get your instrument rating later on, it might make sense to buy a plane with at least basic IFR instrumentation.
 
I live in a rural area of South Carolina. When I decided to get back into flying after quite a few years off I was stunned at the lack of aircraft for rent and CfI's to do reviews or check outs. I started calling nearby rural airports and asking about rental airplanes and finally found a 152 about 45 minutes away. My suggestion would be to call Sufolk [they should have something] if they are close by and go down the list of local airports from there. The availability of rental planes and instructors is much smaller than when I started flying in the late '70's . The sad truth is that the rural airports here in the south are very quiet. As for the flying....you didn't ask for advice but I would take a few lessons in a 150 or 172 and perhaps even solo before I bought a plane. I have seen the most enthusiastic student pilot lose interest very fast.
 
Thanks for the replies. To clarify a bit where I am...it's essentially an island, with the $20 round trip toll, 22mile Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel (plus my 15 miles to get to the bridge, plus however far the airport is on the other side) as the only way over to where there are more (any) CFI's that I can find. That's not practical. I can't think of how to make it practical with the exception of the suggestion above of banging out a few weekends and then trying to stay based out of somewhere closer to home to finish things up?

As for IFR, bigger plane, etc...ideally I'd get PPL, get hours, get a feel for my wife's interest, etc. sell the 150, buy next craft accordingly. Plus, wife and I aren't even 300lbs combined, so I'd think we're safe for a few more thanksgiving dinners! I'm comfortable with outgrowing it. Market for such planes seems reasonably stable, so maintenance costs aside, I don't anticipate a huge hit if I went to sell in 2 years.
 
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