British Terrorism Plot foiled (Airlines again)

Brent Bradford said:
I reload for my pistols. I guess I should really shower well before the next airline trip. Honestly, I havent thought about it before but I bet it would set the puffer off.

True story.

A manager of one of my former company's markets had a farm. His shoes set off the trace detector. TSA confiscated the shoes. He ended up arriving at Tampa in socks.

Yep, Brent, it would be a good idea to shower & keep the clothes entirely separate. Unless you like visiting the proctologist.:rolleyes:
 
mikea said:
I give a crap about POINTLESS sacrifices, which is what these are.

Look up what happened to all of the bacon grease the housewives carefully collected during WW II.

I don't need to suffer the PAIN of standing in line for 4 hours until I agree the guvmint is doing something.

If I was at the airport to catch a flight out this morning I guarantee you I would be nowhere near the airport or an airliner 2 hours later. If deal is I gotta play along with the smoke and mirrors show if I want to get on the jet, I would decide I don't want to get to on the jet.

I have to fly to a TECHNICAL confernence in California in September. How many TECHNICAL customers do you think are going to agree to go without taking or risking the loss of the very laptops on which they conduct the business they're going to conference for?

I will make a backup plan to fly myself until we hear what the jerking knees can come up with to stop me from doing that, in which case I will not go at all. I'll keep my dollars firmly in my pocket.


THEN FLY GA
 
Isn't El Al (or maybe their national police) the leader in airline security, as in they have dealt with this threat for decades longer than us?
How have they prevented airborne hazards, how have they coped with security changes?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Isn't El Al (or maybe their national police) the leader in airline security, as in they have dealt with this threat for decades longer than us?
How have they prevented airborne hazards, how have they coped with security changes?
Pretty sure its not by confiscating bottles of Channel no. 5 and orange juice
 
Dave,

There was an excellent program on the History Channel a while ago about airlines' security.

Basically, EL AL is using a method of ethnic profiling and a clever short interview method (the system was developed by the Shin Beth ).

It's not politically correct but the basis to that approach is VERY rational:

1. 98% of all aircraft hijackings and bombings in the past 35 years were committed by Muslims under the age of 40.

2. No aircraft were ever hijacked by Israeli Jews in the past 5000 years.

That's it - common sense. Look where you're supposed to look. Stop pretending that wolves are sheeps...

This is NOT a racist post - just plain facts that can be easily verified...

P.S. The last Israeli aircraft hijacking was in 1968...before the implementation of the new security methods.
 
Last edited:
Armageddon Aviator said:
Basically, EL AL is using a method of ethnic profiling and a clever short interview method (the system was developed by the Shin Beth ).

Perhaps it was the paperwork sent to security before I left Haifa, but I didn't find anything objectionable about the interview questions I was asked in May when leaving Israel. Whatever, it works. We could learn a thing or two from you folks. However, the PC crowd still doesn't realize we're in a war. God help us.
 
Maybe the detonation of a thermo-nuclear weapon by Islamonazis on British soil will make them realize what is really going on....

A third of the Muslims in Great Britain approved the terrorist attacks in London...
 
Armageddon Aviator said:
Maybe the detonation of a thermo-nuclear weapon by Islamonazis on British soil will make them realize what is really going on....

A third of the Muslims in Great Britain approved the terrorist attacks in London...
Really? Did they have a referendum beforehand?
 
bbchien said:
....so when are the tanks rolling to Teheran? Sigh.

Tanks...hell! A Los Angles class fast attack Submarine submerged at the mouth of the gulf has enough fire power to turn the whole country into a glass ashtray.
I volunteer to reenlist if I can man weps fire control and turn the key that launches all the Nuclear tipped, tube launched, tomahawks. Might be fun to send in a few elsewhere as well..... We should have done it back in Oct of '79 when we had a good reason to.
I was at battle stations on a Sturgeon class fast attack sub in the gulf for dayyyyyys waiting to do just that . Unfortunately Mr Carter never gave the order. we had a few "subrocks" that had nuclear capabilities and a couple of brand new, still being tested ,tomahawks(no nuclear warhead) to shoot just for fun. One sub could have prevented alot of this crap we are dealing with now., think if we REALLY used our might.
 
Alaska Flyer...

"Officials estimate that some 16,000 British Muslims actively engage in or support terrorism (not counting unknown numbers of foreigners resident in the country). Of these, some 3,000 have been trained at al-Qaeda camps in Pakistan or Afghanistan"...

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article.asp?aid=12201085_1

According to the following account, 24 % back the terror attacks and justify those acts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/23/npoll23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/23/ixnewstop.html

and this is interesting as well...
http://www.24dash.com/content/news/viewNews.php?navID=7&newsID=8954

So, as you can see, the percentage of Muslims backing terror is not negligible...even when you are dealing with Muslims who were born and raised in Western countries.
 
smigaldi said:
So it has been 5 years sonce 9/11 has anyone seen a mass deployment of explosive detectors where customers walk through yet?

I'm not sure how many of them they have active .. but they did install
one at the security point at the G concourse in MIA where I always
board. And they seem to be running more and more people thru it
each time I go thru there.

RT
 
AdamZ said:
1) 2) Who give a crap what you can or can't bring on board. Small sacrifices.

I give a crap. My laptop and my cell phone keep me in constant
communications with my work. It's not an option .. it's mandatory. I
can't go on a day long trip and have them in the hold baggage. I
need to communicate between flights and resolve issues that come up.

This constant chasing of every little thing that might be used for terrorist
purposes is stupid. We know EXACTLY what group is pulling this stuff. Profile.
Go after THEM. Why are we wasting our time searching little old people,
and others who aren't in this group. If they had information that a rogue
gang of 50 yr old gray hair white guys were up to no good .. they'd
search everyone and their brother from every different group.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Isn't El Al (or maybe their national police) the leader in airline security, as in they have dealt with this threat for decades longer than us?
How have they prevented airborne hazards, how have they coped with security changes?

They look for the terrorists. We look for the bomb.
 
Armageddon Aviator said:
Dave,

There was an excellent program on the History Channel a while ago about airlines' security.

Basically, EL AL is using a method of ethnic profiling and a clever short interview method (the system was developed by the Shin Beth ).

It's not politically correct but the basis to that approach is VERY rational:

1. 98% of all aircraft hijackings and bombings in the past 35 years were committed by Muslims under the age of 40.

2. No aircraft were ever hijacked by Israeli Jews in the past 5000 years.

That's it - common sense. Look where you're supposed to look. Stop pretending that wolves are sheeps...

This is NOT a racist post - just plain facts that can be easily verified...

P.S. The last Israeli aircraft hijacking was in 1968...before the implementation of the new security methods.



i see they're going back to the "random" secondary screening at the gate. can't wait to see the line of 80+ year old grannies getting groped, ya know, just so we can say we're NOT profiling. what a joke. tc
 
tom clark said:
i see they're going back to the "random" secondary screening at the gate. can't wait to see the line of 80+ year old grannies getting groped, ya know, just so we can say we're NOT profiling. what a joke. tc
Well since they will not focus on the threat they have to do something to get political capital for the sheeple to think they are safer.

I had the Starbuck Barista girl this morning cross her fingers when I told her about my upcoming trip. She said aren't you scared? I asked why should I be scared to which she promptly interupted that that was a good point now that TSA is stepping up searches, UGGGHH!!!!

Did anyone notice the lack of coverage from the press about the still lack of screening of air cargo on commercial passenger flights?

Wanna take bets at what the terrorists will target next?
 
How about the increase in traffic at Amtrack, without an increase in security measures?

Or the fact that you can board a greyhound bus with absolutely NO security screening? Fact - I was just at a greyhound station 2 weeks ago, you can walk right up to the bus and get on from the street.

I'm betting on trains or busses next.
 
Frank Browne said:
They look for the terrorists. We look for the bomb.

exactly. which is why I am not convinced "no hand luggage" is going to do a damn thing. you need people who are trained to look at the people... interview them... observe... if you separate the bombs from the person carrying them on - they may be more relaxed going through. you want someone who is on edge like a rabbit when they go through security and highly trained people observing them.
 
smigaldi said:
Did anyone notice the lack of coverage from the press about the still lack of screening of air cargo on commercial passenger flights?

Of which there will be less of, if they ban carry-on luggage. But, I'm sure the airlines will make up for the lost cargo revenue on other way$.
 
smigaldi said:
Not sure, maybe, but a bus explosion doe lack some of the 'terror' of a plane plunging out of the sky onto the public below.
If 20 busses explode in 20 different cities within 5 minutes of each other, you think that would get press?
 
Greebo said:
If 20 busses explode in 20 different cities within 5 minutes of each other, you think that would get press?

A little:D

But people aren't already scared about getting on buses. How many people questioning jumping on the bus since the London bombings?

Many people already scare themselves about flying, adding the potential of a bombing just increases their stress exponetially. So even without an explosion the terrorists have caused terror.

Therefore creating terror with bus explosion will not get the same ROI as a bomb threat on an airplane, IMHO
 
woodstock said:
exactly. which is why I am not convinced "no hand luggage" is going to do a damn thing. you need people who are trained to look at the people... interview them... observe... if you separate the bombs from the person carrying them on - they may be more relaxed going through. you want someone who is on edge like a rabbit when they go through security and highly trained people observing them.

And that goes right to the heart of the matter. Training. I wonder about the level of educational requirements TSA demands for it's screeners. I've not flown commercially since just before that ValueJet crashed into the Everglades, so I have zero experience in dealing with airport screeners but I would assume that TSA would not have very high standards for it's screeners because they are dependent upon technology to find the bomb rather than skilled and highly observant "interviewers" trying to find the bomber. Again, an assumption on my part but it seems to me that the volume of air travel in this country along with the shear number of airports that need screeners, is forcing the TSA into training unskilled labor to operate hi-tech equipment to find the bomb, or potential bomb. That, combined with the PC policy of screening everyone, is why the security lines are so long and slow. I dunno.
 
Greebo said:
If 20 busses explode in 20 different cities within 5 minutes of each other, you think that would get press?

Business folks don't often ride busses and a reduction of revenue stream at Greyhound wouldn't have the far reaching impact that a reduction in air travel would.

Nailing several Amtrack trains, especially the Excela, that runs the route Washington, Philadelphia, NYC and Boston would have an economic impact. Lots of business people, especially financial service types practically live on those trains.

Len
 
Bill Jennings said:
Of which there will be less of, if they ban carry-on luggage. But, I'm sure the airlines will make up for the lost cargo revenue on other way$.
Ironnically, if you can't carry it on and they have a baggage limit you can ship your stuff ahead by second day air so it will be on the same plane in a different part of the cargo hold.

For me, no carry-ons would mean I can never fly commercial. I would imagine there are other who feel the same. I cannot chance the loss of what I would have in carryons, even in shpping it. I HAVE to have it with me the same night.
 
Last edited:
woodstock said:
...everyone on the plane gets locked down, ...

This brings to mind the CASE, from Battletech... Which someone referenced from another forum... :D

Ahhh... *ahems* /shutsup
 
So, what happens when the terrorists start doing like some drug smugglers do - insert a sealed packet in various body cavities.

We can never eliminate 100% of the risk, and the way we are currently going about it is more eye candy than eliminating risk.
 
wsuffa said:
So, what happens when the terrorists start doing like some drug smugglers do - insert a sealed packet in various body cavities.

We can never eliminate 100% of the risk, and the way we are currently going about it is more eye candy than eliminating risk.

Exactly, if a terrorist wants to some how smuggle liquid explosives on a plane then they will, be it in baby formula or in a body cavity.

My question is exactly how much does it take to bring down an airliner. I would assume it would take a bunch.
 
The problem, as I see it, is that airline security is akin taking away potential weapons as opposed to stopping criminals. Taking away guns and knives doesn't stop the street criminal from finding another weapon. Taking away scissors from a schoolyard bully doesn't mean he can't use his fists or a rock to achieve the same result.

Ultimately, we need to stop the criminals, and do it in a way that the "database" is not full of errors, but instead is accurate.

I'm doubtful that adding things like credit reports and such will result in higher, accurate hit-rates. For example, an insurance company raises rates to a 25-year customer of that company (who has had only one claim in 25 years) because the credit score showed "insufficient time since last consumer credit obtained". While researching the credit report, the customer discovers that MBNA issued a new American Express card to replace the Visa that the customer already held. As such, a new card number was issued and reported to the credit bureau as a new account. Or another example, do you become a greater risk as an airline passenger because you bought a new car last week on credit, with a similar "ding" on your credit score? Yet the guy who paid cash for his new car shows no increased risk.

Overall background checks have been proposed for the Registered Traveler program, but that hasn't gotten off the ground because some feel that it will offer "special" privileges for those who pay for the background checks. Yet the folks who pass the background checks are lower risk to the aircraft. Someone can have a TS/SCI clearance, yet still have TSA deem them a risk to the flight.

Identify the criminals.
 
Darrell111 said:
Exactly, if a terrorist wants to some how smuggle liquid explosives on a plane then they will, be it in baby formula or in a body cavity.

My question is exactly how much does it take to bring down an airliner. I would assume it would take a bunch.

It does not take much. less than a quart will make a mess of things.
 
W.O'Boogie said:
It does not take much. less than a quart will make a mess of things.

Shoot probably just flush a small cube of sodium or lithium and get a good bang. Or my favorite of idione and amonnia, very unstable.

The point is that there is all kinds of stuff that could be used.

Here is another thought. Breast milk will be allowed. What is to stop anyone form putting the chemical in the bottle, disguise it as breast milk? I heard someone on the news say they will have the mom or dad taste the milk. But if a person has already decided to be a suicide bomber with a baby what makes anyone think that they will not have trained themselves to drink the awful disguised chemcial and not whince?
 
smigaldi said:
Shoot probably just flush a small cube of sodium or lithium and get a good bang. Or my favorite of idione and amonnia, very unstable.

The point is that there is all kinds of stuff that could be used.

Here is another thought. Breast milk will be allowed. What is to stop anyone form putting the chemical in the bottle, disguise it as breast milk? I heard someone on the news say they will have the mom or dad taste the milk. But if a person has already decided to be a suicide bomber with a baby what makes anyone think that they will not have trained themselves to drink the awful disguised chemcial and not whince?
The actual plotters allegedly had bottles with false bottoms. They could chug the whole thing and laugh.

Did we mention that none of this makes any sense?
 
Let's not forget that this liquid bomb thing was already test-ran by Al Qaeda operatives in 1994... remember Operation Bojinka?

Oh, and during his confession, Abdul Hakim Murad said some things that might explain the current tenor of our government towards General Aviation:

Abdul Hakim Murad confessed details of Phase II in his torture and interrogation with Manila police after his capture.

Phase two would have involved Abdul Hakim Murad either renting, buying, or hijacking a small airplane, preferably a Cessna. The airplane would be filled with explosives. He would then crash it into the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. Murad had been trained as a pilot in North Carolina, and was slated to be a suicide pilot. Murad probably created this version of the plan.
 
Phase two would have involved Abdul Hakim Murad either renting, buying, or hijacking a small airplane, preferably a Cessna. The airplane would be filled with explosives. He would then crash it into the CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia. Murad had been trained as a pilot in North Carolina, and was slated to be a suicide pilot.
Wow, what a waste that would have been of a good plane.

Wouldn't have done much damage to Langley, but still, a waste of a good plane.
 
Even in England the insurance companies are saying that they will not pay for items lost in check baggage:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2309322,00.html

Imagine if no carry-ons was the rule at where you're bags are under the care of the fine, fine, personnel at, oh, say, JFK or LaGuardia or O'Hare.

I once read a story by a guy who watched out the window of the jet as the baggage handler zipped open his bag on the cart, reached in and took his camera. When he saw the passenger looking at him he just grinned.
 
While not being very Politically Correct, I say we identify the real culprits and put the screws to them. Use whatever method we can; computer identification, profiling, or just raw gut instinct. I'm not saying that just being Arab means you're dirty, but let's realize it's not 70 year old white women or men that are causing these problems. Identify the cause of the problem and seek them out. Take some affirmative action against them.
Think DUI checkpoints. Due to PC and issues with personal rights, the police NOW need to establish a plan to stop and question drivers at those checkpoints. So sure, stopping everyone would be time prohibited, and stopping only those with mid-20's singles would be profiled behavior, the officers need to form some method to take the drunks off the road and preserve individual rights. Why? Aren't we asking the police to preserve our safety?
We're at war and some rights just need to be suspended.
 
This is what I suggest to ensure safe flights from now on:

1. All passengers will be meticulously searched - including a full CT scan and a rectal exam prior to boarding a commercial aircraft.

2. All passengers will be hooked to a lie detector and thoroughly questionned.

3. Any passenger engaging in suspicious activities (i.e. opening a soda can) will be shot on the spot.

4. All passengers will be shackled to their seats. Armed flight attendants will escort passengers to the toilets.

5. Passengers will not be permitted to carry any personal item except their passports and tickets.

6. Talking during the flight will be strictly prohibited.

I think that everybody should encourage the TSA to adopt those logical measures in order to ensure our safety.

One more good thing about those steps is that they DO NOT involve any profiling and and are 100% politically correct.

Perhaps you don't find this funny but the Islamonazis are laughing...
 
Armageddon Aviator said:
Alaska Flyer...

"Officials estimate that some 16,000 British Muslims actively engage in or support terrorism (not counting unknown numbers of foreigners resident in the country). Of these, some 3,000 have been trained at al-Qaeda camps in Pakistan or Afghanistan"...

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/article.asp?aid=12201085_1

According to the following account, 24 % back the terror attacks and justify those acts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/23/npoll23.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/07/23/ixnewstop.html

and this is interesting as well...
http://www.24dash.com/content/news/viewNews.php?navID=7&newsID=8954

So, as you can see, the percentage of Muslims backing terror is not negligible...even when you are dealing with Muslims who were born and raised in Western countries.
So we're down from "a third" to 24% ("back the terror attacks"? That's not what the article or the survey said) to 16,000 (in a country of how many?) to 6% to 3,000 people :dunno:

They have a problem over there, all right, and one doesn't have to exaggerate with figures to show it to be so.
 
Last edited:
Alaska Flyer...

One source stated that up to a third of the Muslims in England (under the age of 30) backed the terror attacks.
Since that source is in Hebrew, I didn't provide any links to it since it's irelevant to this forum.

Does it matter that much if 24%, 28% or 30% back terror in the UK ?

You persist at looking the other way, pretending we're not at war with Islam...well, your opinions on that matter are anything but new.

Let's just say that we disagree.
 
Back
Top