Bo down Half Moon Bay

Tantalum said:
Illuminati

I interpreted his remark that he knew the Coast guard would be there practicing that day. Not that the Coast guard would be in on it

personally, I think it was just very unlucky that he lost his engine over the water and very lucky that they were rescued so quick

you can see in the photo how tiny the people in the water look, you can imagine if the plane had sunk and they would have drifted for a few hours before rescue came looking for them this would have been hopeless

honestly, a personal locator beacon, a little inflatable life jacket, and a set of flares are fairly inexpensive and could very likely be the difference in life or death
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Dye packs are cheap to to turn the water some bright color all around you...
 
Something noted elsewhere... photo mission with no photographer aboard the photo ship?

Someone else posted a massive list of questions like this elsewhere.

He says he didn’t sink it on purpose but ... definitely something not right or not bright about this thing.

Also wonder why Guthmiller is anywhere near this dude or posting videos of him on his channel. He seems too straight laced to taint himself with this doofus.

You know how hard and how long you’d have to chase a moose before the CO Div of Wildlife would even notice? LOL. What a loon.

Got a $220K mistake that you can’t get the sediment out of the fuel tanks... much as he says he wouldn’t do that. A check is coming his way to replace it with something that’s not a lemon.

Who knows. I wouldn’t be putting anything he did on any YT channel with my name or brand on it.
 
Everskyward said:
I saw the interview on local TV, and he seemed pretty full of himself. Obviously he ignored any advice he may have heard about keeping his mouth shut.
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My wife was quite unimpressed that he got pulled from the water before the passenger. I am not sure if the coast guard made that happen. I cannot really see myself letting that happen.
 
Bacho said:
My wife was quite unimpressed that he got pulled from the water before the passenger. I am not sure if the coast guard made that happen. I cannot really see myself letting that happen.
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Yeah. Kinda rude. Haha. It looked like he just climbed in the basket first. But dunno.

Hypothermia but still filming and no blue lips, no shivering later, blah blah. The list goes on.
 
I'm starting to understand why there are people who deny that the moon landings happened!
 
Palmpilot said:
I'm starting to understand why there are people who deny that the moon landings happened!
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??? Nobody’s denying he dunked his airplane. ???

Lots of oddities around the story of why he was out there, though.

And a history of doing things to gain attention
and filming them.

Following the dots. Not denying anything.

He definitely went for a swim/landed on the moon.
 
Jim K said:
I'm not sure I could tread water for 30 min,
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If you can tread water for 5 minutes you can tread water for 30.

1. The endorphins from the situation would carry you for 1/2 hour easily
2. In water that calm, you don’t need to tread, lie back and float.
 
Salty said:
If you can tread water for 5 minutes you can tread water for 30.

1. The endorphins from the situation would carry you for 1/2 hour easily
2. In water that calm, you don’t need to tread, lie back and float.
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The key to treading water for a long time is to not try to get a lot of you out of the water. Tilt your head back, relax, and tread lightly if at all. The more of you out of the water, the harder you have to work.
 
Tantalum said:
How is it possible that there is that much sediment in a tank that you have to sump it four or five times?!
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He said tip tanks were just installed. I'm not familiar with tip tank installs on a Bo but I assume its a lot like installing aux tanks in most other planes. That aux fuel has to find its way into the existing fuel system somehow, whether its a new selector valve or just aux pumps that fill the mains from the aux. Either way, you're opening up the existing fuel system and introducing new hardware into it. Seems like there'd be plenty of opportunity to get foreign junk into the fuel lines in that situation.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
He said tip tanks were just installed. I'm not familiar with tip tank installs on a Bo but I assume its a lot like installing aux tanks in most other planes. That aux fuel has to find its way into the existing fuel system somehow, whether its a new selector valve or just aux pumps that fill the mains from the aux. Either way, you're opening up the existing fuel system and introducing new hardware into it. Seems like there'd be plenty of opportunity to get foreign junk into the fuel lines in that situation.
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Two types. One with transfer pumps, the other with a 5-position fuel selector.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
He said tip tanks were just installed. I'm not familiar with tip tank installs on a Bo but I assume its a lot like installing aux tanks in most other planes. That aux fuel has to find its way into the existing fuel system somehow, whether its a new selector valve or just aux pumps that fill the mains from the aux. Either way, you're opening up the existing fuel system and introducing new hardware into it. Seems like there'd be plenty of opportunity to get foreign junk into the fuel lines in that situation.
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I see... seems like not the most wise decision to be doing over water flying after extensive fuel system work, and especially after (as someone suggested above) not even fully sumping the tanks out. If this guy didn't do this on purpose as some sort of stunt, he at least wasn't exercising the best judgement
 
Prior to seeing the splash on Instagram stories, they were flying the Bo in to some farm/field strip. The strip was narrow and looked like it was between two long grow houses. I was surprised to see them taking a Bo in and out of that.
 
Tantalum said:
I see... seems like not the most wise decision to be doing over water flying after extensive fuel system work, and especially after (as someone suggested above) not even fully sumping the tanks out. If this guy didn't do this on purpose as some sort of stunt, he at least wasn't exercising the best judgement
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My recollection is that he said he got clear samples after four tries or so.
 
Salty said:
1. The endorphins from the situation would carry you for 1/2 hour easily
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I assume you meant adrenaline.

Technically there’d be endorphins later when it started to hurt. But not enough that all the endorphin addicted runners and stuff are switching from running 5Ks on weekend to joining water treading clubs. Hahaha.
 
denverpilot said:
I assume you meant adrenaline.

Technically there’d be endorphins later when it started to hurt. But not enough that all the endorphin addicted runners and stuff are switching from running 5Ks on weekend to joining water treading clubs. Hahaha.
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Endorphins are produced as a response to certain stimuli, especially stress, fear or pain. They originate in various parts of your body -- the pituitary gland, your spinal cord and throughout other parts of your brain and nervous system -- and interact mainly with receptors in cells found in regions of the brain responsible for blocking pain and controlling emotion.
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https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/emotions/endorphins.htm
 
Palmpilot said:
So you're not denying that the incident happened the way he said it did, i.e., due to unintended loss of power?
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Nope. He can make up fairy tales and it won’t match reality and I don’t have to say a word. All I’ve said is that I have questions. Unimportant questions because I’m not his insurance adjuster. :)

We have a guy locally who claims he accidentally forgot to chock a Skylane that needed a new engine and had a dead battery, hand propped it, and it bounded away across an active runway, too. I’ve never denied his claim. :)
 
unsafervguy said:
ive got to test fly a engine overhaul this weekend, you can bet that i will be over the airport at 1500 agl for the whole flight.
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You are aware that turbine planes use 1500 AGL for traffic pattern altitude. Might try 5000 agl. The extra altitude will give you time to trouble shoot if anything goes wrong.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
The sort of attitude evidenced by his prior arrest and ticket do not work well in aviation. You can kill yourself very quickly and things can happen fast. I suspect he would really need to adjust his attitude about risks to fly safely.
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I used to race cars before I started flying. I have been in wrecks at speeds higher than most small planes cruise at. I have had my share of traffic tickets and I have been arrested a couple times, although no charges filed. Should I stay away from flying.??

I have also spent several years in Alaska flying the bush doing flights most folks here have never thought about. Should I not fly in the lower 48?

It is all about risk assessment. What I find dull and boring might be too much excitement for you. What you find exciting and thrilling may put me to sleep. But it's all good. Different types of personalities is what keeps this world interesting.
 
Tantalum said:
If this guy didn't do this on purpose as some sort of stunt, he at least wasn't exercising the best judgement
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Agreed. And there but for the grace go I. I would assume (or hope) launching over water after major work on the fuel system and sumping out an unusual amount of gunk is something he'll think twice about in the future.

I was young and dumb once too. First time I went to OSH was in a Mooney with the owner and his kid. The plane lived in a hangar and rarely saw any rain so we were completely unaware the the fuel caps had bad seals. The plane sat on the ramp in Milwaukee for several days while we were at the show. When we were getting ready to leave, we sumped several full cups of water out of each tank. Once we got full cups of blue fuel out, we launched and headed due East across lake Michigan and didn't think twice about it. Work out fine for us but looking back on it, I think it was a pretty stupid thing to do.


The next big question: Will they try to retrieve the plane or leave it where it sits?
 
Zeldman said:
I used to race cars before I started flying. I have been in wrecks at speeds higher than most small planes cruise at. I have had my share of traffic tickets and I have been arrested a couple times, although no charges filed. Should I stay away from flying.??

I have also spent several years in Alaska flying the bush doing flights most folks here have never thought about. Should I not fly in the lower 48?

It is all about risk assessment. What I find dull and boring might be too much excitement for you. What you find exciting and thrilling may put me to sleep. But it's all good. Different types of personalities is what keeps this world interesting.
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In general, I agree wholeheartedly. As long as he doesn't hurt other people or their property, his risk tolerance is up to him.

In piloting planes with passengers which are insured, it is a bit different of course. He has the passenger to think about as well the insurance company's interest in his plane. He does not strike me as the type of person I would be wanting to insure or ride with. But that is just based on knowing a little bit from this incident.
 
denverpilot said:
Nope. He can make up fairy tales and it won’t match reality and I don’t have to say a word. All I’ve said is that I have questions. Unimportant questions because I’m not his insurance adjuster. :)

We have a guy locally who claims he accidentally forgot to chock a Skylane that needed a new engine and had a dead battery, hand propped it, and it bounded away across an active runway, too. I’ve never denied his claim. :)
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I was talking about the kind of denial that moon-landing-conspiracy theorists engage in, which has nothing to do with insurance. It has to do with rejecting eyewitness accounts, using lists of "reasons" that seem oddly similar in character to the ones that you and others have given.
 
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Juliet Hotel said:
we launched and headed due East across lake Michigan and didn't think twice about it
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Well, at least you learned, and at least by the time you got to Lake Michigan you'd been in the air for a good 20 minutes and already overflew Lake Winnebago so have some reasonable confidence that the engine is churning along and should continue to do so smoothly.. I imagine by the time you got to Lake Michigan you'd be settled in cruise and leaned out and have had a chance to notice any awry

What's your furthest point from land crossing the lake... right in the middle around 30 miles? If you are at 10K then with the Mooney's stellar glide range that should give you.. what.. about 15-20 miles glide range? So in reality your time of greatest exposure is a 20 mile stretch, or about 10-ish minutes? (seem I'm already trying to rationalize it)
 
Tantalum said:
Well, at least you learned, and at least by the time you got to Lake Michigan you'd been in the air for a good 20 minutes and already overflew Lake Winnebago so have some reasonable confidence that the engine is churning along and should continue to do so smoothly.. I imagine by the time you got to Lake Michigan you'd be settled in cruise and leaned out and have had a chance to notice any awry

What's your furthest point from land crossing the lake... right in the middle around 30 miles? If you are at 10K then with the Mooney's stellar glide range that should give you.. what.. about 15-20 miles glide range? So in reality your time of greatest exposure is a 20 mile stretch, or about 10-ish minutes? (seem I'm already trying to rationalize it)
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It was an OSH trip, but we used Mitchell in Milwaukee because that's where the rental car was. We were over the lake about a minute or two after takeoff. Stupid.
 
Zeldman said:
You are aware that turbine planes use 1500 AGL for traffic pattern altitude. Might try 5000 agl. The extra altitude will give you time to trouble shoot if anything goes wrong.
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And class c starts at 1200 over my airport. Also, 5000 should never be used to break in a new engine with any density altitude the percent hp is way to low for a new engine.
 
Palmpilot said:
I was talking about the kind of denial that moon-landing-conspiracy theorists engage in, which has nothing to do with insurance. It has to do with rejecting eyewitness accounts, using lists of "reasons" that seem oddly similar in character to the ones that you and others have given.
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On purpose or just being stupid attracts the ambulance chasers and affects all of us. Do you see a big need to be over water right after major maintenance and a seriously deadly fuel system contamination problem? To shoot a YT video?

I don’t. Doesn’t really matter why. Stupid decision that brings focus to his tendency toward requiring attention and the spotlight.

WWPPD? LOL.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
It was an OSH trip, but we used Mitchell in Milwaukee because that's where the rental car was. We were over the lake about a minute or two after takeoff. Stupid.
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Oh, well in that case! LOL

At least you learn from it
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Agreed. And there but for the grace go I. I would assume (or hope) launching over water after major work on the fuel system and sumping out an unusual amount of gunk is something he'll think twice about in the future.

I was young and dumb once too. First time I went to OSH was in a Mooney with the owner and his kid. The plane lived in a hangar and rarely saw any rain so we were completely unaware the the fuel caps had bad seals. The plane sat on the ramp in Milwaukee for several days while we were at the show. When we were getting ready to leave, we sumped several full cups of water out of each tank. Once we got full cups of blue fuel out, we launched and headed due East across lake Michigan and didn't think twice about it. Work out fine for us but looking back on it, I think it was a pretty stupid thing to do.


The next big question: Will they try to retrieve the plane or leave it where it sits?
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NTSB will want to retrieve it, but the insurance company has the money to pay for it. Since this story is very fishy(pun intended) the insurance company could consider retrieving it to determine if they can deny the claim. But if the recovery costs more than it's worth(likely), they won't do it. They could probably get an good GPS location from the Coast Guard, but the current can easily sweep it far from that point.

Now it looks like he got his pilot license last year. I wonder how much Bo time and time in general he has. Insurance companies don't like low timers flying Bos. Another wrinkle is the fuel source. He said he got bad fuel from one the local airports, so the NTSB will be sweeping through there to verify. If I were the FBO, and I did not have bad fuel, you better believe I'm calling my attack lawyers to go after this guy for slander. If it is worth it to those lawyers, that is, if they think there is a good chance of proving 100% that the fuel wasn't contaminated, and thus get a 7 figure case brought against Lesh, they may offer to pitch in some money to help retrieve the airplane. But that's quite a long shot.
 
To me, the flight doesn't fit the profile I would expect for insurance fraud. For example, if it was intentional:

1. Why ditch beyond swimming distance from land?

2. Why no life jackets?

3. Why no PLB?

4. Why bring along witnesses, endangering a passenger in the process?

5. Why travel so far to do it? Am I remembering rightly that he started the trip from another state? Aren't there suitable bodies of water closer to where he started out?

6. Why put $50,000 worth of upgrades in it in the past few months if he was just going to to destroy it?

7. I am aware of some wild stuff he is said to have done, but has anyone found a past record of insurance fraud on his part, and evidence that the plane was over-insured? Absent those, extrapolating from his past activities to intentional destruction of the aircraft for insurance purposes is more of a leap than I'm willing to make.
 
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