BFR

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by ThatPilotGuy, Jul 17, 2021.

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  1. ThatPilotGuy

    ThatPilotGuy Filing Flight Plan

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    So a friend of mine recently confided in me that he was due for a flight review back in June that he forgot about, and he has since flown solo twice since his review lapsed. He flies 3 times a week with his instructor while getting his commercial so its not like he is rusty.

    He is about to take his commercial checkride too, so the examiner will most likely see the discrepancy and he is worried about what the examiner can/will do.

    What should he do to avoid a huge punishment?
     
  2. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Maybe his CFI will pre date a Flight Review.
     
  3. ThatPilotGuy

    ThatPilotGuy Filing Flight Plan

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    I don’t think any CFI will do that tbh
     
  4. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Never know till ya ask. It wouldn’t be like he just pencil whipped it for any ol’ body. He’s been flyin with him 3 times a week. I’d do it. Unless maybe I was really a CFI:dunno:. We gots lotsa CFI’s here. Waiting to here from them.
     
  5. TCABM

    TCABM Pattern Altitude

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    I’d sit here and wonder how, as a commercial applicant, I let this happen and then have nice conversation with my CFI about how to go forward.
     
  6. catmandu

    catmandu Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Your friend should get a flight review before further flight as solo PIC and move forward.
     
  7. saddletramp

    saddletramp Line Up and Wait

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    I've had two pilots ask me for a backdated Flight Review. One had done some damage to his 182 while landing on a gravel road on his farm.

    Both were told the same "no way Jose'". Don't ask me to jeopardize my certificates due to your oversight.
     
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  8. brcase

    brcase Pattern Altitude

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    If you have have been flying regularly with the CFI and have met the ground instruction requirements, I don’t see any reason a CFI would not certify that you have met the requirements that you have actually met or exceeded.

    Another option is if you have your 3 required wings ground credits in the past year you could get the CFI it sign off the flight credits you should have easily completed during your commercial training.

    Either way you need to fess up to your CFI because you need him to sign off Wings credits or a Flight Review. It will be up to him to determine when you met the requirements of a Flight Review.

    Brian
     
  9. Daleandee

    Daleandee Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'm not a CFI but in similar situations I've often told people, "I won't tell on you but I won't lie for you either."
     
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  10. AKBill

    AKBill En-Route

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    Folks make mistakes, tell the truth and move on. No sense making it any worse.
     
  11. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Flying for 36 years. Never did a BFR, although I have given a few.
     
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  12. AKBill

    AKBill En-Route

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    How often do you get type training for work?
     
  13. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Ok. You given em so I assume you’re a CFI. Would you do it? Your flying with a guy 3 days a week. During the time period when his Review was needed. He’s got his sheet together. Would you write the Flight Review dated as needed?
     
  14. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    It isn’t going to be a big deal for the practical test. The DPE at worst is going to look for a current flight review.

    When someone comes to me for an IPC, new certificate or rating, HP/complex or make model check out, I always ask about their FR expiration and make the review part of the other training of they are close to expiration or just want to use the opportunity to update the FR.
     
  15. ThatPilotGuy

    ThatPilotGuy Filing Flight Plan

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    So you don’t think he’ll ask about why my friend flew solo without a review?
     
  16. DFH65

    DFH65 Pattern Altitude

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    Not saying anyone should do this but he could have just not logged the solo flights. :stirpot:

    My guess is the DPE won't notice but he should be prepared to answer for it.
     
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  17. Kenny Phillips

    Kenny Phillips En-Route

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    He'd have to look back at the date of the previous review to even know to ask. My examiner was more interested in whether I was current at the time of the test.
    Me? Well, I did the same thing fifteen years ago. Literally forgot to get what was then a BFR, and flew several times before I figured it out. I got my BFR and "unlogged" the time that I flew "expired".
     
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  18. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    • The practical test logbook review is to determine the applicant meets the requirements for the practical test. It is not an investigation to discover past violations.

      The log entry alone does not prove he was illegal, If you friend was without a flight review, he could get another pilot who agreed to act as PIC to fly with him. In his log book he is allowed to log the time he was sole manipulator of the controls as PIC and there is no requirement he list the name of the PIC. (61.51)
     
  19. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Erase the solo flights, do a FR.
     
  20. Doug Reid

    Doug Reid Line Up and Wait

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    Asking for a friend..........:)
     
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  21. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Why would "a discrepency" even come up in a check ride? When was your last FR? Last week, cool, next....
     
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  22. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Just go ahead and get a flight review before the check ride takes place, so you’re legal. The examiner won’t care if it happened later than it should’ve, as long as it’s current at the time of the check ride. If he doesn’t have a current BFR, the examiner will surely disqualify the applicant.
     
  23. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Would filing a NASA report help here?
     
  24. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    99% sure this was a joke, but around here, I never know.
     
  25. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If you go through an approved recurrent school, you’re exempt from doing a flight review.
     
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  26. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Have your friend tell the examiner he was hoping to avoid the review by passing the checkride.

    *this was a joke
     
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  27. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Every checkride counts as a FR, and we do them more than every year.
     
  28. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Got a regulatory reference for that?

    Technically every checkride negates the need for a flight review. ;)
    “…need not accomplish the flight review required by this section”
     
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  29. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Really… what’s the difference? Semantics.
     
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  30. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    Depends whether you ever need to read the regs to determine what they actually mean, I guess.
     
  31. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    E248872E-25E8-4467-835D-9DC145C17968.jpeg
     
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  32. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    It's impossible for anyone here to know what your friend's examiner will do. But there certainly are examiners who would not count the flight time when your friend was not legally able to fly solo. It's possible that won't come up if the examiner only asks about most recent FR and doesn't notice it was late. If your friend was my friend, I'd tell him to get a FR logged and then make sure he has all the required time logged legally.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
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  33. jordane93

    jordane93 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I’ve always thought the verbiage was there. I guess not. Oops.
     
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  34. RussR

    RussR Pattern Altitude

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    They may be examiners who would not allow it, but I don't see that as supportable by the regulations. 61.51 allows you to log PIC time for any flight where you are the sole occupant in the aircraft (61.51e(1)(ii), regardless of whether you're rated or current in the aircraft or not (rating requirement is in the previous subparagraph, but the list of scenarios is an "or" list, not an "and" list).

    So for example, I am not rated in a Multiengine Seaplane, but if I do fly one solo, it's legitimate to log the time as PIC. Not legal to do the flight, of course, but legal to log it. Also not smart to log it, since it's logging evidence of an illegal act, but that's a different question.

    Same case if you're not current due to FR status.
     
  35. flyingtexas

    flyingtexas Filing Flight Plan

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    Get the checkride he needs and tell the examiner exactly what happened and what he did to make sure that never happens again. If the examiner thinks the guy is fudging or trying to hide it that will be a big red flag. The examiner might start asking himself what else the pilot is trying to hide.
     
  36. Lindberg

    Lindberg En-Route

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    Let's follow your logic and see where it goes.

    In order to apply for a commercial certificate, 61.129 says the friend needs to log certain time:

    It doesn't say he needs to legally log it. It doesn't even say he has to actually conduct the flights, just that he has to log it. You reason that 61.51 allows you to log time for flights that were illegal for you to conduct. By that same logic, 61.129 allows you to take a checkride if you logged time it wasn't legal for you to log because, let's say, you didn't actually fly it or you weren't actually solo. So why conduct the flights at all; just log it because that's all that's required! I don't think that's right. :D

    FWIW, I know a DPE who recently turned away a ppl applicant who was relying on solo flight time he hadn't been endorsed for. So there definitely are DPEs who care about such things and will check.