Best cell phone provider, all of them, with Google fi

[James331]

Apparently it can switch between many providers, wifi, etc, rate is super low, only charged for data you use and your bill will never be over $80, and works in and into other countries


but alas it doesn't work for iPhone

https://fi.google.com/about/

 

[jesse]

No thanks - too creepy.

 

[James331]

Well they are all super creepy and will sell their own mothers for a few bucks, nothing a good VPN and some point to point encryption (al la signal) can't fix

 

[asicer]

Apparently it can switch between many providers...

And by "many" you mean two and a half in the USA...

 

[James331]

And by "many" you mean two and a half in the USA...

Nope, got more than that, plus wifi, plus their international stuff.

Not a PIREP, but a interesting product, especially for those who don't live in big cities and have spotty reception.

 

[asicer]

Nope, got more than that, plus wifi, plus their international stuff.

Eh? Best as I can tell it's Sprint and T-Mobile (two) and US Cellular (half) in the USA. I'm pretty sure Verizon and AT&T are not on board.

 

[James331]

When I was on the west coast I'd agree, up here however it's ATT and Verizon, with Verizon getting a little better coverage.

T-Mobile and many of the others that don't go off ATT or VZWs networks, nada.

 

[denverpilot]

Eh? Best as I can tell it's Sprint and T-Mobile (two) and US Cellular (half) in the USA. I'm pretty sure Verizon and AT&T are not on board.

Correct. US Cellular is a fairly recent addition. It’s essentially a conglomeration of the worst carriers to make one “Okay” carrier.

The phones also have a REALLY hard time switching carriers in spotty coverage for whichever two are active in a poorly covered area.

Calls are usually NOT properly handed off between the two real world carriers, it’ll drop and the phone will switch. Calls are properly handed off between either single carrier and WiFi, both entering and leaving WiFi for the most part.

They used to allow some BYOD but now it’s the approved devices that work the best (or at all). At higher data use rates their pricing isn’t competitive. It’s at best, equal.

Fi essentially does this, it gives you another carrier to try when you drop out of either of the two worst coverage carriers (by both total spectrum licensed and also by geographic coverage), it now also adds the huge swath of area the US Cellular family ownership won’t ever let go of, and makes data more of an “as needed” pricing structure that follows usage.

It also pretty much gives Google a massive amount of metadata to pull/push from the devices for all sorts of uses. You have to decide if that’s a problem for you.

It was a neat concept. Not really a surprise AT&T and Verizon didn’t play along though. They cover more and have bigger bandwidth to deal with network traffic overall.

There are some scenarios where Fi works out to be better, because of the coverage already there.

 

[midlifeflyer]

When I was on the west coast I'd agree, up here however it's ATT and Verizon, with Verizon getting a little better coverage.

T-Mobile and many of the others that don't go off ATT or VZWs networks, nada.

You misunderstood the comment. Not, which are the best carriers, but which are the "many providers" in the plan. Here's what Fi says in its FAQ:

• Who are Project Fi’s cellular network partners?
  Project Fi has partnered with Sprint, T-Mobile, and U.S. Cellular, three of the leading carriers in the US, to provide our service. You can view our US coverage at fi.google.com/coverage.

 

[schmookeeg]

I used Project Fi in addition to my T-Mobile (unlimited data + international roam) phone for a recent RTW trip.

In the "first world", Fi was more expensive (I am a heavy data user -- Fi s $10/gig) than T-Mobile, as they both roamed in the same places. This is US, Canada, Europe. The comparison suffered because T-Mobile was doing a "4G international speed" promo at the time, so T was the clear winner. Fi allows unlimited tethering, Tmobile caps high-speed tethering. In countries without the 4G promo, the speed was usually an unusable 2G, which couldn't even keep up with Google Maps.

In West Africa, the T-Mobile phone was often crippled by speed (2G ish) and often times the Fi phone could do full 4G. That was when it worked at all (Morocco, Ghana, a few others) -- when one had no service, the other had no service either. West Africa is dominated by the french carrier Orange, with South Africa's MTN close behind. From Senegal to Nigeria, it was usually much cheaper to just get an Orange Sim and a data plan -- usually 3G speed and a few bucks a gig.

In Southern Africa (ZA, Namibia, Zambia, Botswana), the Fi data price was cheaper than any local sim (except Zambia IIRC) so it brought a convenience benefit. It also whipped T-Mobile's speed being 4G vs 2G again.

In Asia, Aus, and NZ, it was the same -- Fi was fast and expensive data, Tmobile was slow and "included" data.

There was never a place where Fi had coverage and Tmobile did not.

There was often a case where Fi had very fast data and Tmobile had slow, unusable data. T-mobile offers high-speed data passes for an upcharge.

The Fi phone we took (Nexus 6P) was a battery-devouring piece of garbage that I sold immediately on our return.

So in summary: Fi is good for people who need fast data and don't wish to pay Tmobile for the data passes or buy and use sims in other languages. Otherwise, $10/gb is really steep in most of the world, save the southern parts of Africa, where it is on par with local offering and "handy"

If I had it to do over, I would get a dual-sim android (like my current Moto Z Play) and still bring Fi as a cold backup, but I would expect to not use it. Fi doesn't make sense to me outside of the travel context.

$0.02

 

[airdale]

Another Fi user here. Wife, too. I like it internationally because there is no screwing with SIM cards and changing phone numbers. We use AirBnB a lot and carrying a cell phone to contact hosts is almost mandatory. Also, I made a call home from the transit lounge in Seoul last month, as easy as making a call across town and again no need for a local SIM. Apparently T-mobile is catching up with Fi in this aspect but they have lied to me twice about coverage so are off my qualified vendor list.

Re data, we are the opposite of @schmookeg. Many months our data bill is under $1. When traveling these days, almost anywhere we stay (including AirBnBs) has WiFi. We also use Copilot for navigation, which has its maps stored on the phone. So other than the occasional look at Google maps or Yelp for restaurants, we don't need much cellular data.

It works for us. As the cell providers fight for share in a saturated marke, Fi's cost advantages are diminishing but for us it's still the carrier of choice. Our bills are typically around $40 for two phones and data.

 

[James331]

You misunderstood the comment. Not, which are the best carriers, but which are the "many providers" in the plan. Here's what Fi says in its FAQ:

• Who are Project Fi’s cellular network partners?
  Project Fi has partnered with Sprint, T-Mobile, and U.S. Cellular, three of the leading carriers in the US, to provide our service. You can view our US coverage at fi.google.com/coverage.

I was watching a bit about fi on the new screen savers, must have missed that they don't use ATT or VZW

 

[wsuffa]

Well they are all super creepy and will sell their own mothers for a few bucks, nothing a good VPN and some point to point encryption (al la signal) can't fix

If the phone is Android, don't count on it.

 

[denverpilot]

If I had it to do over, I would get a dual-sim android (like my current Moto Z Play) ...

I didn’t realize the Z Play was dual sim. Is it like most dual sim devices where it’s somewhat brain damaged and you pick one or the other, or does it actually use both by whatever you choose for voice and the primary for data, or what?

 

[James331]

If the phone is Android, don't count on it.

I'm not super familiar with android, making my iPhone stay on the VPN can be problematic enough even with a jail break, I would have thought a open source android would be much easier?

 

[schmookeeg]

I didn’t realize the Z Play was dual sim. Is it like most dual sim devices where it’s somewhat brain damaged and you pick one or the other, or does it actually use both by whatever you choose for voice and the primary for data, or what?

It's the international version (got it from Amazon), but it's only half-brain-dead -- choose which sim for voice, which for data - but it will switch without a restart, so it's pretty cool for my purposes.

Kinda old now, but it's this one -- I only charge it weekly, small CPU and two giant batteries for the win. https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-XT1635-02-5-5-Inch-Unlocked-International/dp/B01MZ05P97

 

[denverpilot]

It's the international version (got it from Amazon), but it's only half-brain-dead -- choose which sim for voice, which for data - but it will switch without a restart, so it's pretty cool for my purposes.

Kinda old now, but it's this one -- I only charge it weekly, small CPU and two giant batteries for the win. https://www.amazon.com/Motorola-XT1635-02-5-5-Inch-Unlocked-International/dp/B01MZ05P97

Ahh okay. So anyone thinking of buying unlocked “international versions” of cell phones cheap, be advised that the big two (Verizon and AT&T) will usually block *WiFi* calling from any phone that isn’t the *exact* model number they use in the States. This includes models that use the same name for both versions.

And if the phone isn’t on their “approved” list at all, they definitely block it. Absolutely annoying when they claim you can bring your own device to their networks. You can bring the EXACT model number they sell to get all features. Otherwise they can block any feature that they want to.

This has been a real ongoing problem with VZ/AT&T and Moto devices. Take that same phone to T-Mobile, it’ll do the full feature set the phone can do.

Just fair warning if anyone is getting into the “buy cheap phones online” game.

 

[asicer]

Correct. US Cellular is a fairly recent addition. It’s essentially a conglomeration of the worst carriers to make one “Okay” carrier.

To be fair T-Mobile has been making great strides since they got the break-up monies from at&t, what with bands 12, 66 and 71 coming on line.

Sprint, on the other hand...

 

[James331]

...

And if the phone isn’t on their “approved” list at all, they definitely block it. Absolutely annoying when they claim you can bring your own device to their networks. You can bring the EXACT model number they sell to get all features. Otherwise they can block any feature that they want to.

....

Any way to spoof this?

 

[denverpilot]

Sprint, on the other hand...

Is an utter disaster of a company and a solid example of why the Bell breakup might not have been a good idea. LOL.

Did laugh that they either outlasted his non-compete clause or told him they’d defend him against VZ, when they hired the “Can you hear me now?” guy for a series of commercials.

That probably made someone’s eyelid twitch at VZ in the Marketing department.

Any way to spoof this?

Not that I know of, but haven’t looked. Probably little chance since it would be tied to the ID stuff users can’t get access to in the phone.

Any engineering mode that would allow changes to that stuff is likely to report home to momma that the phone was tampered with.

 

[denverpilot]

P.S. All anyone ever needs to know about Sprint is that their name is actually an acronym. No I’m not kidding.

Southern
Pacific
Railroad
Internal
Network
Telephone

But anyway. They killed themselves clear back at the acquisition of Nextel. They just can’t seem to finish bleeding out.

 

[James331]

It's a shame even with this open source OSS we can't spoof a ESN or IMEI like we can with computers and MAC addresses.

 

[denverpilot]

It's a shame even with this open source OSS we can't spoof a ESN or IMEI like we can with computers and MAC addresses.

Can do it with test gear if you have $10,000 and can carry it as your phone. LOL.

 

[wsuffa]

Ahh okay. So anyone thinking of buying unlocked “international versions” of cell phones cheap, be advised that the big two (Verizon and AT&T) will usually block *WiFi* calling from any phone that isn’t the *exact* model number they use in the States. This includes models that use the same name for both versions.

And if the phone isn’t on their “approved” list at all, they definitely block it. Absolutely annoying when they claim you can bring your own device to their networks. You can bring the EXACT model number they sell to get all features. Otherwise they can block any feature that they want to.

This has been a real ongoing problem with VZ/AT&T and Moto devices. Take that same phone to T-Mobile, it’ll do the full feature set the phone can do.

Just fair warning if anyone is getting into the “buy cheap phones online” game.

Or a warning to avoid certain phone companies.

(And if you happen to be traveling to an area where VZ has better 4g coverage, use a hotspot w/ prepay per day and wifi calling on your T-mo phone. Just like you do with DMR.)

 

[denverpilot]

Or a warning to avoid certain phone companies.

I did T-Mo for a while. Liked the attitude of customer service, liked the price. But got what I paid for in a semi-rural area. That being, nothing. For about half of my commute. Hahaha.

Rural airports east of town into Kansas? Forgetabboutit.

I was essentially paying to have a WiFi only cell phone at home and at work. Didn’t even cover my office well enough to hold a call. I think they’ve fixed the office end now, but not out here.

 

[airdale]

... But got what I paid for in a semi-rural area. That being, nothing. ...

I tried them twice, a few years apart, based on their promises of coverage at our lake home. In both cases it was a lie. In both cases they refused to refund my payment. In both cases I got my payment back by filing a dispute with my card company. Basically they customer serviced me in the same way the bull services the cow. Never again.

 

[wsuffa]

I tried them twice, a few years apart, based on their promises of coverage at our lake home. In both cases it was a lie. In both cases they refused to refund my payment. In both cases I got my payment back by filing a dispute with my card company. Basically they customer serviced me in the same way the bull services the cow. Never again.

Which is exactly how I feel about Verizon. And ATT to a lesser degree.

 

[denverpilot]

They all suck. It’s one of those products you get to buy by determining which company will annoy you the least instead of which one will strive to please you the most.

In other words, the same as before the breakup.

 

[wsuffa]

They all suck. It’s one of those products you get to buy by determining which company will annoy you the least instead of which one will strive to please you the most.

In other words, the same as before the breakup.

At least now a couple of them use lube. Not so Verizon. And don't even get me started about VZ landline (now FiOS). Since T-Mo has bought ("partnered with", but really bought) an OTT cable company local to us that operates over fiber (FiOS), it will be interesting to see whether VZ screws them the way they screwed some of the CLECs. Better pricing and a "we try harder" attitude.

Fortunately, my rural property is in a place that can get coverage on TMo, ATT and VZ, so I have a choice. I also happen to have a 950-ish 6' dish (20+ dB gain) that can be employed should it be necessary. A couple of providers built towers that I can see, so it helps. Problem is that their backhauls are *meh*. There's also a WISP available.

 

[airdale]

They all suck. It’s one of those products you get to buy by determining which company will annoy you the least instead of which one will strive to please you the most. ...

Back when long distance was expensive and my sales guys were making 5,000 calls per month, our annual vendor selection was basically a process of picking the least worst vendor. Deja vu.

 

[asicer]

I tried them twice, a few years apart, based on their promises of coverage at our lake home. In both cases it was a lie.

Keep in mind that a lot of their coverage improvements lately are because they deployed new frequency bands. And new frequency bands frequently mean you need a new device that is capable of using the new bands.

And you thought computer upgrade cycles were bad...

I can't wait to hear the weeping and gnashing of teeth when carriers start implementing "VoLTE or bust".

 

[denverpilot]

I can't wait to hear the weeping and gnashing of teeth when carriers start implementing "VoLTE or bust".

VZ and TMo have been effectively done with their VoLTE rollouts for a while now. AT&T is mostly done.

They’re even carrying “HD” audio cross-carrier now in many areas.

About the only time around here we drop out of VoLTE and HD audio is if we roam into oddball Viaero’s towers on 3G in the boonies.

 

[asicer]

VZ and TMo have been effectively done with their VoLTE rollouts for a while now. AT&T is mostly done.

They’re even carrying “HD” audio cross-carrier now in many areas.

About the only time around here we drop out of VoLTE and HD audio is if we roam into oddball Viaero’s towers on 3G in the boonies.

By "VoLTE or bust" I was referring to 2G/3G shutdown. at&t already shutdown 2G, Verizon pretty much gave until 2020 for everyone to upgrade their devices to LTE and T-Mobile has been talking about re-farming their 3G to LTE.

Of course, there's always good ol' Sprint if you want to stick with old tech. That's one side benefit of them lagging behind the rest...

 

[denverpilot]

By "VoLTE or bust" I was referring to 2G/3G shutdown. at&t already shutdown 2G, Verizon pretty much gave until 2020 for everyone to upgrade their devices to LTE and T-Mobile has been talking about re-farming their 3G to LTE.

Of course, there's always good ol' Sprint if you want to stick with old tech. That's one side benefit of them lagging behind the rest...

Oh I see. Around here VZ deprovisioned most of the backhaul bandwidth for 3G so if you fall back to it you’re essentially getting 1XRTT data speeds. In the one area I know my phone falls to 3G, I habitually flip it to airplane mode and back to get it to recapture LTE even weakly. 3G is useless around here on VZ.

They appear to keep it around for areas that truly don’t have coverage because it’ll squeak into those areas and text and voice will barely work, so they can claim more coverage than everyone else. When really everyone’s using data anyway, and it is essentially useless for anything but an emergency call. Their network drops calls that start VoLTE and try to drop back to 3G. If you start a call 3G, the device will be locked into 3G until the call terminates.

 

[cowman]

Hmm, so from what I'm seeing you can't use apple devices with it? Too bad, this would actually be a halfway decent solution for us. The only carrier that works really well where I live is actually US Cellular but when traveling it's not so great. AT&T and T-Mobile work but reception is spotty. Sprint and Verizon give you full bars but no data service.

I'd be on US cellular again if it wasn't for the whole traveling around the country in an airplane and not wanting to deal with roaming thing.

 

[wsuffa]

VZ has already EOLed some of their LTE phones and told folks that own them they must upgrade or live with 3G or less data in many areas. Mostly because new frequencies have been deployed and the phones aren't capable.

TMo has been rolling out 600 MHz.

 

[denverpilot]

VZ has already EOLed some of their LTE phones and told folks that own them they must upgrade or live with 3G or less data in many areas. Mostly because new frequencies have been deployed and the phones aren't capable.

TMo has been rolling out 600 MHz.

TMo 600 has been done, and I mean all the way done, for a while here. It might fill in some of their holes better but I can’t test it since I don’t have a device that has that band. They hammered 600 in fast here according to friends in the tower biz. Needed the extra bandwidth and the lower frequency distance coverage badly.

 

[wsuffa]

TMo 600 has been done, and I mean all the way done, for a while here. It might fill in some of their holes better but I can’t test it since I don’t have a device that has that band. They hammered 600 in fast here according to friends in the tower biz. Needed the extra bandwidth and the lower frequency distance coverage badly.

They got it in fast because there were no TV stations near you to move. Most of the country will have to wait longer - in some cases significantly longer. Not much equipment (yet) that covers the band. The lower frequency helps in rural areas - 700 has helped building penetration where it's been deployed.