Best career choice in the long run

RyanB

RyanB

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So im facing that predicament of choosing what to do as far as college and a career. Im a senior in highschool with a PPL and trying to decide whats next. I feel like in the long run I wont be happy doing anything other than being in the aviation field. Like an office job or something like that...not something i want to do. My GPA is roughly a 3.2 so i feel like i should atleast qualify for most things. The medical field would be nice, especially the $$, but then again its not my top interest. I know money is not everything and you should choose a career that you enjoy. Even though that statement is true you have to choose something to make a living and give you enough cash to survive, and i feel like the aviation field is pretty grim in that category which drives me away, and do it only for a hobby. Also thought about the ROTC but i feel like getting a pilot slot is few and far between and my chances there are also slim, compared so say 20+ years ago. Im in a tough situation here because i need to figure this out.
 
I'm a lead software engineer for an aircraft manufacturer. My bills get paid, I get to mess with some of the finest most cutting edge aircraft on earth and flying is still a hobby and not a job.
 
If I were you I would not rush into a college program that you are not dead set on, and it sounds like this is the case. Take some time and feel out your options. I know it's a race to the top, but if you get there too soon you might find you got to the top of the wrong pile of poop.
 
bartmc said:
I'm a lead software engineer for an aircraft manufacturer. My bills get paid, I get to mess with some of the finest most cutting edge aircraft on earth and flying is still a hobby and not a job.
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Never thought about something like that, sounds like something I may have to look into, thanks!
 
NJP_MAN said:
If I were you I would not rush into a college program that you are not dead set on, and it sounds like this is the case. Take some time and feel out your options. I know it's a race to the top, but if you get there too soon you might find you got to the top of the wrong pile of poop.
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You're right, im not dead set on any aviation program just yet. I do like the "Non aviation degree and fly at an FBO on the side" idea but i feel like it will take me forever to go that route. My plan as of now.. Take generals at a community college (where the state pays for 2 years free) then switch to another college to finish up my bachelors degree in something. But then again where is aviation..?
 
First, I think you should narrow down what segment of aviation you want to be involved in. If it's a pilot, then what type of flying? If it's military, then what branch? It's hard to give advice when you have expressed specifics on what you want to do in aviation.
 
Id like to possibly go part 121 eventually, but fly 135 first like King air's maybe. I have a family friend that is a 135 KA captain and seems to make a decent living and has a good home and family life. His job would be perfecto for me!
 
Ryanb said:
You're right, im not dead set on any aviation program just yet. I do like the "Non aviation degree and fly at an FBO on the side" idea but i feel like it will take me forever to go that route. My plan as of now.. Take generals at a community college (where the state pays for 2 years free) then switch to another college to finish up my bachelors degree in something. But then again where is aviation..?
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What is the end point of "that route"? Recent changes to the requirements for the ATP certificate have made that goal much more expensive in dollars and in time...and you can't even be an airline first officer unless you have an ATP.

The days of getting your ATP at a local school (the way I did) are long gone.

I like the idea of getting a non-aviation degree and flying as a hobby. Lots of IT professionals on this board who went that route.

Bob Gardner
 
Ryanb said:
You're right, im not dead set on any aviation program just yet. I do like the "Non aviation degree and fly at an FBO on the side" idea but i feel like it will take me forever to go that route. My plan as of now.. Take generals at a community college (where the state pays for 2 years free) then switch to another college to finish up my bachelors degree in something. But then again where is aviation..?
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I'm a Senior at Queens College studying Economics and flying on the side. I'm pretty much getting all the ratings a "flight student" at ERAU or UND will get except I'm not going to be $100K in debt (I'm finishing up my CFI and will start instructing part time while I finish up my last semester). If you put the effort in, your can get all the same ratings a student at a flight college can get. So it's not impossible. Flying on the side worked for me. Also I took a year off from flying and still got it done.
 
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bobmrg said:
What is the end point of "that route"? Recent changes to the requirements for the ATP certificate have made that goal much more expensive in dollars and in time...and you can't even be an airline first officer unless you have an ATP.

The days of getting your ATP at a local school (the way I did) are long gone.

I like the idea of getting a non-aviation degree and flying as a hobby. Lots of IT professionals on this board who went that route.

Bob Gardner
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The end result would get a CFI at the lowest. Try and get my ME and get multi time until able to meet ATP mins and get hired by an airline.
 
I was in the same boat. I took a year before college and im currently at atp. I plan on finishing up my ratings the. Flight instructing at an aviation college. That was you build time have some side cash and go to school.
 
jordane93 said:
I'm a Senior at Queens College studying Economics and flying on the side. I'm pretty much getting all the ratings a "flight student" at ERAU or UND will get except I'm not going to be $100K in debt (I'm finishing up my CFI and will start instructing part time while I finish up my last semester). If you put the effort in, your can get all the same ratings a student at a flight college can get. So it's not impossible. Flying on the side worked for me. Also I took a year off from flying and still got it done.
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That may well be an option than, thanks for sharing. Sounds like one of the best routes to me.
 
Catalo said:
I was in the same boat. I took a year before college and im currently at atp. I plan on finishing up my ratings the. Flight instructing at an aviation college. That was you build time have some side cash and go to school.
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Also thought about ATP, how is life there? Do you recommend?
 
Ryanb said:
Also thought about ATP, how is life there? Do you recommend?
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I like it. They get stuff done quick. But it's on you to stay up with reading. The instructors help if you have questions. But its like drinking from a fire hose. Don't let that deter you the students at my location all do ground and help each other out. Its different for everyone. Just go somewhere with good weather.

And im not necessarily saying go to atp just getting your ratings done so you can instruct through college.
 
I went through the local fbo type of programs. While I didn't finish in 180 day like at ATP I did finish in just a couple years debt free from flight lessons and am now a pilot for a 135 operation building time and making a livable wage.

While I was flight training I was working at the FBO meeting flight crews from all over the place and I have connections to all kinds of knowledge that a 1500 hr cfi will not have because he/she stayed at the flight school and never went to where the current drivers are.
 
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When considering career choices, the first question to ask is if there will likely be demand for what you're doing when you're ready to do it. The second question to ask id if you have any aptitude for what it is you are considering. One of the reasons that software developers are in demand is that not everyone can do the job at the level that employers expect. Once you choose something, make sure you have some talent in that area.
 
I thought getting a pilot slot in ROTC would be slim to none. Worked out for me, and I had a lower GPA than you in high school. I tell everyone, "If I can do it...you can definitely do it." I was under the impression Air Force pilots all had engineering degrees and masters degrees and we're super smart...definitely not the case. Where else can two 25 year olds pilots and two 20 year old flight engineer/boom operators take a DC-10 across the ocean to places like Africa, Thailand, Hawaii, and Spain for weeks at a time? I feel i have responded on this same topic multiple times so I'm not gonna do it again. If you have any interest in the military, PM me and I'll tell you what's true and what's not.
 
Follow your heart, if you're a person who can make money, the money will always follow.

Don't be afraid to think outside the box aviation wise.
 
Follow your heart.

If you do what you love, the money will follow. And, it won't seem like a "job" and you will have to fight off the guilt for getting paid to do what you love to do.
 
Follow the money

If you do what pays you a lot of money, maybe you can change your heart and learn to like it.

If that doesn't work, you can turn to alcohol.
 
My degree has *nothing* to do with my career, but without a degree I wouldn't have had the opportunities I've been offered. My advice would be to get a degree... ANY degree. It shows potential employers that you can stick with things and check the boxes they want checked. Follow your heart in your spare time and explore options to make some money doing those things. In the long run, you're likely to gravitate toward opportunities that fit your wants while also filling your needs. That may or may not include aviation as a career, but flying "just for fun" isn't a bad deal, either. Don't be afraid to work hard and take some chances. You're young and can always recover from a "bad decision" and may find that those that seem like bad decisions in the short term actually open doors to better things in the future. Good luck!
 
In my experience, at least for me, if I don't _like_ something, I'm generally not that good at it.
 
Whatever you decide to do, despite your passion for aviation, I wouldn't worry about just keeping it in the hobby category. There is plenty of excitement and enjoyment to be had without turning it into a day after day job. When I was your age I thought I wanted to be a bush pilot but then I met my girl and bush piloting didn't fit in with that.

But I've been flying for over forty years now, been all over the country, coast to coast, Oshkosh, Alaska and Mexico. No regrets. In fact I've regressed fully and now fly a 90 hp Champ and I'm restoring an 85 hp Luscombe.

If you have the passion for it flying offers a lot of different outlets.
 
I'm definitely the recreational pilot... just got my ppl last year at the age of 42. My second CFI is a mechanical engineering student and had no interest in the professional route. My first CFI was pursuing an aviation degree through a local college and was shooting for the regionals and beyond. Options are out there... pursue your interest! But, as a teacher I tell my students, don't run off to college unless you are prepared and motivated to succeed. Where do you see yourself in 10 years? Sit down, write down short and long term goals, along with the means in how you will achieve them. And at your age, you can make a mistake or two and recover. Don't be discouraged if something goes awry and you need to change your path.
 
Ryanb said:
So im facing that predicament of choosing what to do as far as college and a career. Im a senior in highschool with a PPL and trying to decide whats next. I feel like in the long run I wont be happy doing anything other than being in the aviation field. Like an office job or something like that...not something i want to do. My GPA is roughly a 3.2 so i feel like i should atleast qualify for most things. The medical field would be nice, especially the $$, but then again its not my top interest. I know money is not everything and you should choose a career that you enjoy. Even though that statement is true you have to choose something to make a living and give you enough cash to survive, and i feel like the aviation field is pretty grim in that category which drives me away, and do it only for a hobby. Also thought about the ROTC but i feel like getting a pilot slot is few and far between and my chances there are also slim, compared so say 20+ years ago. Im in a tough situation here because i need to figure this out.
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Career: Most of us here have had more than one. Don't sweat it.

Congrats on the Private rating.

Happiness: Whether you're happy or not is your choice. It has nothing to do with what you're doing. There's people who are very happy dealing with garbage. My garbage guy owns the company and loves owning his own company. He also loves restoring historically accurate WWII Jeeps.

GPA: Useful only in Academia and as a footnote on your first resume' getting your first job. Frankly no one after that will care ever again for the next 50 years. Don't sweat it unless you're applying for something that needs it.

Medical: If it's not a passion, I wouldn't think of going there. Look up how long it takes to get from med school (already difficult enough) through residency and how much money it costs.

Choosing a career you enjoy: Better plan. Choose to enjoy your career.

Enough cash to survive: Starting with no debt, you're way ahead of the game. If you could see the bills stacked on the countertops of many people who LOOK wealthy and have toys, you'd be amazed. You'd also be amazed at how little one can live on when everything is paid for. I knew someone who paid for all of their expenses per year, in a paid off house, including utilities, fuel and maintenance on paid off vehicles, and the usual stuff, good food (cooked his own meals), and still had some money left over for three or four hobbies - $12K a year. He wasn't living high on the hog but he wasn't in shabby clothes or even looking poor. You can't underestimate how important remaining out of debt is. Learn to hate debt.

ROTC: It is exactly what you make of it. There's people who get those limited slots every year because they busted their butt for them.

Aviation field: If you start young, eschew debt, and fly your ass off, there's jobs out there and airplanes that need to be flown.

If you fall into the trap of comparing your life, money, whatever to other people and letting jealousy drive your thoughts, you'll hate a job that has you relatively broke for 15 years.

If you choose instead to enjoy the ride knowing it takes a long haul commitment, and just go flying, you might enjoy it significantly.

They're going to be plenty of "life events" over the years that'll make choosing a career look like nothing.
 
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Gucci Pilot said:
I thought getting a pilot slot in ROTC would be slim to none. Worked out for me, and I had a lower GPA than you in high school. I tell everyone, "If I can do it...you can definitely do it." I was under the impression Air Force pilots all had engineering degrees and masters degrees and we're super smart...definitely not the case. Where else can two 25 year olds pilots and two 20 year old flight engineer/boom operators take a DC-10 across the ocean to places like Africa, Thailand, Hawaii, and Spain for weeks at a time? I feel i have responded on this same topic multiple times so I'm not gonna do it again. If you have any interest in the military, PM me and I'll tell you what's true and what's not.
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+1 I would explore this option, do the best I could, and see where it goes. If you don't want to commit then continue on with college.
 
Alexb2000 said:
+1 I would explore this option, do the best I could, and see where it goes. If you don't want to commit then continue on with college.
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Truth, you can walk away from ROTC at anytime. Unless you get a scholarship and even then you still can. Getting the pilot slot is not all that hard if you know what you need to do to get there(that is spelled out pretty early). What gets people is doing something stupid like a public intox, drinking underage, DUI, and the Air Force Flying Class I Medical.
 
jordane93 said:
I'm a Senior at Queens College studying Economics and flying on the side. I'm pretty much getting all the ratings a "flight student" at ERAU or UND will get except I'm not going to be $100K in debt (I'm finishing up my CFI and will start instructing part time while I finish up my last semester). If you put the effort in, your can get all the same ratings a student at a flight college can get. So it's not impossible. Flying on the side worked for me. Also I took a year off from flying and still got it done.
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This is what I'd recommend.

You'll never regret getting the ratings and the degree...and then beginning the journey. If for whatever reason it begins to feel more like work....then fall back on your degree, pull the chute and go for plan B.

If living outta a suit case isn't your cup of tea....then better re-think the pilot route. Very few pro-Pilots are home for dinner at 5 regularly....they're working on the road, much like a truck or bus driver.

I once started and began this Pro Pilot route and decided I wasn't much for living outta suit case. I pulled the chute and went for an Engineering job and found my way back into aviation that way. I've always kept into it as a hobby....but, years latter it worked out.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
This is what I'd recommend.

You'll never regret getting the ratings and the degree...and then beginning the journey. If for whatever reason it begins to feel more like work....then fall back on your degree, pull the chute and go for plan B.

If living outta a suit case isn't your cup of tea....then better re-think the pilot route. Very few pro-Pilots are home for dinner at 5 regularly....they're working on the road, much like a truck or bus driver.

I once started and began this Pro Pilot route and decided I wasn't much for living outta suit case. I pulled the chute and went for an Engineering job and found my way back into aviation that way. I've always kept into it as a hobby....but, years latter it worked out.
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If you don't chase the airlines there are quite a few flying options that have you home every night with a good QOL.

Worst offenders I've seen on being away often were some folks in sales.

Just follow your heart, if youre the type of person who is going to make money you'll still make money, don't be afraid to not follow the flock.
 
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denverpilot said:
GPA: Useful only in Academia and as a footnote on your first resume' getting your first job. Frankly no one after that will care ever again for the next 50 years. Don't sweat it unless you're applying for something that needs it.
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Amen to that. I don't recall ever being asked in nearly 40 years as an engineer.

Speaking of engineering...

If this is something that is of interest to you I can say that it pays the bills, allows me to fly and is something I enjoy. There are far worse ways to earn a living (at least, in my opinion). Heck, you could always become a politician. :D
 
murphey said:
Yes, but we're not in the Spin Zone and are trying to aid an intelligent youngster with reasonable career choices.
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OK.

Learn/do something that requires physical presence, do not learn something that can be done in India from across the internet.
 
NJP_MAN said:
If I were you I would not rush into a college program that you are not dead set on, and it sounds like this is the case. Take some time and feel out your options. I know it's a race to the top, but if you get there too soon you might find you got to the top of the wrong pile of poop.
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Agree with this. Current culture is too much pushing High School Grads to attend college the next immediate semester.

But I wonder if the younglings would take 1 to 2 years to enter the entry level workforce would benefit them by gaining maturity, better independance, better life skills, and possibly a good start on financial smarts before they take on college.

Done well and right, they may figure what career path they want, made some valuable networking connections, and do better to set themselves up for long term success.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Follow the money

If you do what pays you a lot of money, maybe you can change your heart and learn to like it.

If that doesn't work, you can turn to alcohol.
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:yeahthat:

Don't listen to all the idealistic crap about following your dreams. Go for the money and a comfortable life will follow...you can afford to fly whenever you want to (and you don't go fly because you have to), live in a nice place, drive a nice car, drink the good booze and get all the chicks you want.

You don't even have to like it - you make as much money hating what you do.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
Agree with this. Current culture is too much pushing High School Grads to attend college the next immediate semester.

But I wonder if the younglings would take 1 to 2 years to enter the entry level workforce would benefit them by gaining maturity, better independance, better life skills, and possibly a good start on financial smarts before they take on college.

Done well and right, they may figure what career path they want, made some valuable networking connections, and do better to set themselves up for long term success.
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I would think this is right but the entry level jobs market is not what it was when I was 18 (in 1977 for reference). I've got 2 sons and a daughter who for various reasons are working at getting off the ground without 4 year degrees. They are smart and hard working and not picky (and that's not just Daddy talking). One is an assistant manager at a McDonald's. One is a part time nanny and part time dance instructor. One is assistant manager at the local Zoo's zip line course. All took multiple months to find ANY job. (OK, except the dance teacher-she's teaching at the studio she grew up in, but it doesn't fully pay the bills. And the nanny job took a long time.)

If there were entry level jobs for all I think a couple of years at that while figuring out what you want to do would be great. But then Phoenix University, ITT Tech and their ilk would not be collecting all that student loan money. If you know what you want to do, great! Go on to school.

John
 
Prepare for oncoming text wall!:

Okay, you are in the exact same position I was last year. We had the same GPA's, thoughts about ROTC, indecision about degree choices, and we both hold private certificates. My decision was to participate in AFROTC (non-scholarship) and begin working torwards a degree in mechanical engineering. I've been enjoying AFROTC so far, and believe it was the right decision for me. What I've learned about Mechanical Engineering is that its proved more challenging than I originally thought it would be. I did decently well in all my high school math classes, including calculus, and thought I might be okay. So far I've passed my college math/engineering courses with a B average, but I can tell I'm already beginning to struggle. What last semester (and this current one) have taught me is that if you don't truly enjoy your major, get out of it. You should find something you like and enjoy, no matter what that degree may be. Remember that all you really need for the Air Force or an airline job is a four year degree. I cannot stress enough to pick a degree program that you enjoy and find interesting. This is why I will most likely be switching majors after this semester ends.

As far as AFROTC goes, it certainly isn't for everybody. That being said, as long as you're somewhat physically fit, able to follow directions, and willing to speak up and volunteer, you have a lot of potential. Yes, there aren't many pilots slots available, but from what I've been told by Cadre (AFROTC detachment staff) and POC cadets (Juniors and Seniors), as long as you can score highly on your PFA, do well at field training (it's like intense summer camp between your sophomore and junior year), keep your GPA above a 3.0, and are liked by the members of your detachment you'll be very competitive for one of the pilot slots. The other point I've been told is that cadets with flight hours and ratings (of which there are few. For instance, I'm the only freshman cadet with any flight hours or ratings at all. I'm instrument rated and have about 200 hours by the way) have a much better shot at getting a pilots slot than those who don't. In this regard you already have a leg up. So having a chance to get a pilot slot or scholarship through ROTC is not just a pipe dream, it is actually attainable. Just study hard, lead and volunteer inside and outside of ROTC, and keep in decent physical shape, and you'll succeed.

My biggest bit of advice is to try out college and ROTC as soon as you can after graduation. This way, in case you don't like either, you will have wasted minimal time/money. Another bit of advice, at least in my opinion, is to not do your flight training through any colleges. They are outrageously expensive, and you don't gain anything by going through them. If you want to get a degree in aviation then do it, but fly through a local FBO instead of that school. You'll save yourself thousands this way. For instance, I've worked at an FBO for the past three years. Through the flight school associated with the FBO and the discounts I've received because of that, I'll have all my ratings, including commercial and CFI, for less than $18,000. By saving so much money it has made getting my ratings a possibility, and will save me huge amounts of cash in the long run. I'm assuming you already work, since you have your private, and so my advice is to do what I've done and work a part time job to pay for flying on the side. This way you won't accumulate any extra debt, and can enjoy flying by doing it at your own pace and on your own time.

In summary, you have to decide for you what is the best option. Choose to do what makes logical sense for your future goals, but is also what you like and enjoy. If you don't truly enjoy it, it isn't worth doing. Work hard at everything you choose to do, and you'll find reward in it. So far I've enjoyed most of the choices I've made, but wish I had paid closer attention to choosing a degree program I wanted rather than choosing one simply for being a good possible future career option. If you want to fly as a profession, then choose a degree that works towards that goal.

If you have any questions or comments about what I've said, please contact me! It'd be nice to talk to someone of the same age and background with the same interest and ideas.
 
A few things are almost a given, one being that schooling after high school is almost essential. Your plan to start at the community college is fine, but I'd be using it as a stepping stone.

With your PPL you would be a good candidate for a National Guard pilot position, if you were able to get through the selection process. Most would much rather take a candidate with a PPL.

Here's an idea, look up a flying Reserve or National Guard unit in your area, enlist and go off to training this Summer. They can usually split it so you can be back for college in the Fall. No you wouldn't be going in with any promise of a flying job, but you get your toe in the water and the rest will only help later. You would also get $$ for college.

It's so much better to be applying for jobs from the inside. While all this is going on, press forward with school, maybe work towards a CFI. The trend for piloting jobs is good, but there are no guarantees. You also can't just wait for an opportunity to fall in your lap, you need to make things happen.
 
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