BasicMed expansion?

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StraightnLevel

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StraightnLevel

If I read this correctly, BasicMed now allows up to 7 seats (6 passengers) and 12,500 pounds. Section 828 in the link above.

(j) COVERED AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘covered aircraft’ means an aircraft that ‘‘(1) is authorized under Federal law to carry not more than 7 occupants ‘‘(2) has a maximum certificated takeoff weight of not more than 12,500 pounds; and ‘‘(3) is not a transport category rotorcraft certified to airworthiness standards under part 29 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations.’’.
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Baked Potato said:
Wake me up when you don't need a third class first :(
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I hear ya, but this is a significant change. It opens up a lot of new planes for BasicMed pilots. 7 seats, 12,500 MTOW, and 250 kias covers the great majority of small aircraft. Heck, you could fly a HondaJet if you can figure out how to stay under FL180 and 250 kias.
 
That bill for the FAA reauthorization was signed by the president yesterday, so it is indeed law now. However, the law says that the basicmed expansion goes into effect 180 days after it became law - I suppose that means waiting until November to fly a Caravan under BasicMed.

Something else interesting in the law is that it bans the FAA from starting an investigation based solely on surveillance data using ADS-B.
 
NoHeat said:
That bill for the FAA reauthorization was signed by the president yesterday, so it is indeed law now. However, the law says that the basicmed expansion goes into effect 180 days after it became law - I suppose that means waiting until November to fly a Caravan under BasicMed.
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True, but if you want to move up, you might want to buy now. I would expect prices for planes between the old and new limits to go up with the expanded number of potential buyers.

Had I seen this coming, I might not have bothered with my Class 3 in January....but no harm, no foul.

Is it fair to surmise that somebody looked at the safety data and determined that BasicMed pilots aren't a significantly greater risk than Class 3 are?
 
StraightnLevel said:
Is it fair to surmise that somebody looked at the safety data and determined that BasicMed pilots aren't a significantly greater risk than Class 3 are?
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I think the data so far at least supports that position.

I wonder how that may change as pilots on Basic Med get further and further away from their initial certification as they age and become more likely to have more medical conditions that would disqualify them from certification using the AME standards. AFter all, there IS a lot of leeway in operating under Basic Med.
 
dbahn said:
I wonder how that may change as pilots on Basic Med get further and further away from their initial certification as they age and become more likely to have more medical conditions that would disqualify them from certification using the AME standards. AFter all, there IS a lot of leeway in operating under Basic Med.
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Good question. I guess that will come down to the doctors who sign off on their exam. Trouble is, I find it doubtful that very many GPs have even a basic level of understanding of the requirements to pilot a plane. I certainly saw that years ago when going to get a racing physical, where they would ask me to describe the physical requirements.
 
StraightnLevel said:
I guess that will come down to the doctors who sign off on their exam.
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Or...radical idea...the pilots themselves. At some point, you're going to know that you're not capable anymore. Maybe an instructor will talk to you, maybe you'll be critical of your flights and decide it's time. But at some point you will know that it's time to stop.

Don't forget that with Mosaic coming, it's very likely that most pilots won't even need Basicmed anymore. As long as they're allowed to drive a 6,000 lb SUV up Pike's Peak, they're allowed to fly a 6000 lb airplane over it.
 
StraightnLevel said:
Good question. I guess that will come down to the doctors who sign off on their exam. Trouble is, I find it doubtful that very many GPs have even a basic level of understanding of the requirements to pilot a plane. I certainly saw that years ago when going to get a racing physical, where they would ask me to describe the physical requirements.
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Ultimately, it’s all up to the pilot. I think the lack of data of increased risk overall is simply that, as a group, we are pretty good at self-assessment and have a strong interest in self-preservation.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
What requirements are there that wouldn’t be obvious to the average family physician?
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Multi-tasking. Hearing. Altitude tolerance. Medications. Vertigo.

Driving on city streets is a very poor analogy, but I would bet that this is what most GPs are going to have in mind when presented with a BasicMed applicant. Unless they themselves are a pilot, they don’t have a reference point.

As a corollary, when I would get my racing physical, no doctor that I talked to ever understood the lateral g-force issues without me explaining them, nor did they expect the extended heart rate elevation that most drivers experience. Most people have never dealt with an environment that involves a combination of physical and mental stress over an extended period, so they don’t really grasp the physiological requirements nor the possible problems that should prevent a person from participation.
 
IMO the biggest BasicMed fix in this reauth is the issue with examiners. We'd been wanting to correct that for some time but there's limited capacity to enact rulemaking. This will keep the older, more experienced DPEs on the line.

The seats issue will fix the PA-32 problem. Many PA-32s are type certificated for 7 seats even though only 6 were installed.

I don't see the weight issue affecting much; the vast majority of GA pilots are flying aircraft under 6,000. There were a few larger 6 seat twins right on the edge that will benefit, though.

One thing that the statute does allow is for a the FAA Form 8700-2 BasicMed comprehensive Medical Examination Checklist to be amended to require applicants to report not just convictions, but also arrests associated with drug or alcohol motor vehicle events. This gives the doctor signing the form a broader view of the pilot's substance use history...especially given that folks with the financial resources to fly airplanes are resourced enough to hire good lawyers to drop DUI charges to lesser (unreportable) charges.
 
dbahn said:
I wonder how that may change as pilots on Basic Med get further and further away from their initial certification as they age and become more likely to have more medical conditions that would disqualify them from certification using the AME standards.
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Since over 99% of applicants eventually get a medical anyway, I don't think it will change much.

I also think there's some mitigation in the fact that it's easier for a private pilot to self-ground when he isn't fit to fly than it is for a revenue pilot.
 
StraightnLevel said:
Multi-tasking. Hearing. Altitude tolerance. Medications. Vertigo.
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Of those, only hearing is tested in a class 3 exam. Medications are reviewed and some are a barrier, but that's without regard to the dosage or how well the patient tolerates the med. Overall I don't think the class 3 accomplishes much that Basic Med doesn't.
 
Half Fast said:
Of those, only hearing is tested in a class 3 exam. Medications are reviewed and some are a barrier, but that's without regard to the dosage or how well the patient tolerates the med. Overall I don't think the class 3 accomplishes much that Basic Med doesn't.
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...except give the FAA an excuse to ground you.
 
So I have a 3rd Class with an SI for OSA. I also have a Basic Med. The SI expires in 2026. My 3rd class is required to renew yearly. If I let the 3rd Class just expire, what will the FAA do relative to the SI? Pull it, or just let it expire in 2026.

On a side note, I renew my BM every 3 years, because my personal annual physical always gets moved out a month or so when I schedule after each visit. So, impossible to comply with BM 48 month Dr sign off.
 
What's downright hilarious is that imagine if Congress could do this one thing:
Remove the requirement to have at least one Class 3 to be eligible for Basic Med

No increase in dangerous pilots flying airplanes
No need for millions to be spent on developing MOSAIC
Heck, no need for LSA and Sport Pilots. Planes can be non LSA restricted and Pilots can do the few extra hours to get the PPL. And can move up to IR, which I would guess would make things safer for some.
 
Dana said:
99% of applicants may get a medical, but that doesn't include those who use basicmed because they know they won't pass a class 3.
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But that wasn’t the question. The question was whether Basic Med’s success would decline as Basic Med pilots get further from the initial Class 3. My point is that the class 3 doesn’t screen out very many people anyway.
 
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Rcmutz said:
…. my personal annual physical always gets moved out a month or so when I schedule after each visit. So, impossible to comply with BM 48 month Dr sign off.
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You can get the CMEC signed every year if you want; the 4 years isn’t a comply on date, it’s an expiration date.

I do the course every other year and alternate it with the CMEC update. It’s not like my doc is charging me extra to sign the form anyways.
 
TCABM said:
You can get the CMEC signed every year if you want; the 4 years isn’t a comply on date, it’s an expiration date.

I do the course every other year and alternate it with the CMEC update. It’s not like my doc is charging me extra to sign the form anyways.
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That’s basically the rotation I’m setting up.
 
TCABM said:
You can get the CMEC signed every year if you want; the 4 years isn’t a comply on date, it’s an expiration date.

I do the course every other year and alternate it with the CMEC update. It’s not like my doc is charging me extra to sign the form anyways.
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I’ve been doing much the same. Only difference is, I don’t alternate with the course. I do them the same month. Only one date to track in my dotage.
 
For first BM with a current class 3 do I need to do the online course in addition to the Dr's exam?
 
StraightnLevel said:
Multi-tasking. Hearing. Altitude tolerance. Medications. Vertigo.
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1) “Multi-tasking” is a myth. Even if you disagree, how is that examined?
2) Hearing. Fair enough. It’s tested (sort of) on a Class 3. But do you really think your average “GP” (no such thing in the US anymore) doesn’t know that pilots have to hear? Spend some time with old pilots and pay attention to how many of them yell at each other to be heard. The bar for hearing is pretty low.
3) Altitude tolerance. What does that even mean, and how is it tested? Has anyone ever been denied a medical because of poor altitude tolerance?
4) Vertigo. Vertigo? Really? Do you really think a “GP” doesn’t know that vertigo would be disqualifying for a pilot?

Your opinion of the average doctor’s ability to reason is an underestimate.

And your opinion of the uniqueness of the medical requirements for flying is a huge overestimate. Medically speaking, flying just isn’t that special.
 
NoHeat said:
Something else interesting in the law is that it bans the FAA from starting an investigation based solely on surveillance data using ADS-B.
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That is very interesting.
No way they would find a violation in the data, then go back and find a reason to 'go check the ads-b data' and getcha that way, is there? No, the government would never do that. Right?
 
WDD said:
What's downright hilarious is that imagine if Congress could do this one thing:
Remove the requirement to have at least one Class 3 to be eligible for Basic Med

No increase in dangerous pilots flying airplanes
No need for millions to be spent on developing MOSAIC
Heck, no need for LSA and Sport Pilots. Planes can be non LSA restricted and Pilots can do the few extra hours to get the PPL. And can move up to IR, which I would guess would make things safer for some.
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no increase in dangerous pilots flying airplanes?

so you don't read the medical section of this board? how many questions a week are there about getting a medical with know mental issues, drug use issues, and alcohol issues? you don't see some of these people as becoming dangerous pilots if allowed to self certify? which is what basic med really is, its real easy to find a doctor that you have never seen before, lie on their forms, and get a physical and get the basic med form signed. we need reform, not abandonment of a medical baseline.
 
dbahn said:
I wonder how that may change as pilots on Basic Med get further and further away from their initial certification as they age and become more likely to have more medical conditions that would disqualify them from certification using the AME standards. AFter all, there IS a lot of leeway in operating under Basic Med.
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Look at the geezers operating under Sport Pilot rules... Doesn't seem to have resulted in flaming death raining from the sky.
 
unsafervguy said:
no increase in dangerous pilots flying airplanes?

so you don't read the medical section of this board? how many questions a week are there about getting a medical with know mental issues, drug use issues, and alcohol issues? you don't see some of these people as becoming dangerous pilots if allowed to self certify? which is what basic med really is, its real easy to find a doctor that you have never seen before, lie on their forms, and get a physical and get the basic med form signed. we need reform, not abandonment of a medical baseline.
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Well…..

You can lie to an AME.
I doubt if a MD is going to sign off someone who is hearing voices and speaking to people aren’t there during the exam.
And we have scores of people who gave had a long time since their last 3rd class, are using Basic Med, and aren’t insane death angles.

So yes, I respectfully disagree. The data I see shows Basic Med is fine and the 3rd class requirement is unnessary.

Although I have nothing against Mosaic, altering Basic Med vs Mosaic would actually require a closer medical review (Basic Med) vs just flying on a drivers license.

What IMHO would be better would be for Sport Pilots to get the extra hours of night, 3 hours of IMC, the additional training to get to PPL which might prove helpful if they’ll now be flying Skyhawk sized aircraft on longer X countries, etc.
 
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Just for the heck of it, I extracted the accidents involving pilots on BasicMed from the 2018-2022 NTSB accident database.
1716067856682.png
Odd how the percentage has been going down after peaking in 2020.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Nice! I wonder if that is more or less than expected? That is, if 10% of the GA non commercial hours were flown by Basic Med, you’d expect that 10% of GA non commercial accidents would involve Basic Med pilots.
 
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unsafervguy said:
how many questions a week are there about getting a medical with know mental issues, drug use issues, and alcohol issues? you don't see some of these people as becoming dangerous pilots if allowed to self certify?
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Most of them eventually get medicals, and the process is mostly submitting tons of documentation. AMEs and OKC do not prescribe treatment.

And pilots with all those issues can fly as SPs without any sort of medical, yet the sky isn’t raining LSAs.
 
Half Fast said:
Can you also plot the number of pilots on Basic Med? An increase in accidents in the early years should parallel the increase in participants.
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Is that sort of data available? I know next to nothing about the program, is the FAA notified when a pilot switches to BasicMed? I'm flying on Sport Pilot, for instance, and all the FAA has is my expired 3rd class from nearly 20 years ago.

Found an interesting FAA study on BasicMed statistics: "Assessing Mortality Between the BasicMed Population and Third-Class Medically Certificated Pilots"


"The mortality data are generally unfavorable to BasicMed, likely because the BasicMed population is significantly older and more likely to have required an SI. However, the mortality risk remains elevated even when controlling for both age and SI. Absent Federal Aviation Administration oversight, mitigation of elevated risk of incapacitation and death is dependent upon the airman seeking regular medical care for their conditions."

Ron Wanttaja
 
wanttaja said:
Is that sort of data available? I know next to nothing about the program, is the FAA notified when a pilot switches to BasicMed?
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Yes. When Basic Med pilots complete the required online course, the record of completion goes to the FAA and shows in the airman database.
wanttaja said:
"The mortality data are generally unfavorable to BasicMed, likely because the BasicMed population is significantly older and more likely to have required an SI. However, the mortality risk remains elevated even when controlling for both age and SI.
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That’s overall mortality, though, not fatal crashes. The study is only relevant tangentially. It includes things like cancer, car wrecks, being crushed by a falling piano, shot by a jealous husband, etc.

Some interesting quotes from the study:

Generally, BasicMed pilots had a lower risk of dying in nonmedically related deaths than the third-class group.
.
.
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Further, risk of cancer- related deaths was two times higher among BasicMed airmen.

Things like cancer may be biasing the study to be unfavorable to BM pilots but that would have little to do with flying risk. Cancer death becomes more likely with increasing age, and BM pilots are generally an older group.

Overall I don’t think that study tells us very much.
 
NoHeat said:
That bill for the FAA reauthorization was signed by the president yesterday, so it is indeed law now. However, the law says that the basicmed expansion goes into effect 180 days after it became law - I suppose that means waiting until November to fly a Caravan under BasicMed.

Something else interesting in the law is that it bans the FAA from starting an investigation based solely on surveillance data using ADS-B.
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Was the FAA initiating investigations based solely on ADSB data before this bill?
 
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