Avidyne IFD 440

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I have an older Garmin GNS 430 nav/com in my panel but the internal squelch drifts out of position regularly. I found a local shop that will put it on the bench and correct the problem since Garmin no linger supports this unit. Garmin's minimum price for taking in equipment for troubleshooting in beyond unreasonable anyway, so I wouldn't send the radio to them even if they still supported it. I'm thinking of replacing the 430 with Avidyne's IDF 440 since that unit is the exact same size as the 430 and has the same connection ports. That would minimize installation cost. I've read about the Avidyne unit and I've watched some of their YouTube tutorials and the unit seems impressive, but I don't know anyone with experience using their equipment. Are there any IDF 440 users on this forum that could share their ownership/operating experience. It would be even more helpful to my decision making if the Avidyne user has or had experience with Garmin equipment as a comparison. What I'm interested in is clarity of the information displayed, ease of accessing typical menu options used in flight (both VFR and IFR), and any maintenance headaches. Will the Avidyne 440 work with my existing VOR displays (both Mid-Continent MD200 CDI w/Glideslope)? Any feedback appreciated.
 
Yes, it will work with your cdi/gs indicator.
Yes, it's a slide in replacement.
I replaced a 430w with a new 440 and had issues. The 440 would lose satellite lock frequently in the same tray the 430w had no issues with. Slide the 440 in and would lose position regularly. Slide the 430w back in and had solid position. We don't know why. The other issue was the 440 bezel was so hot it was uncomfortable to the touch. Finally, I had concerns about service cost should that be needed. I really wanted to like the 440. I like the fact that the 440 has buttons and seems like a more user friendly unit over the 650xi that I have in my current plane. In the end I returned the 440 and stayed with my old 430w in that old plane.
 
I have had very good experiences with the Avidyne units. I have them in both of my planes. With the dedicated buttons as well as the hot keys, it is easy to get to everywhere I need to go. The screen clarity is much better than the 440/530 screens.
 
I have experience where this was done with basic non autopilot aircraft that were equipped with G5s and Cirrus’s SR22 G2-G5 models with 3100 autopilots. I also fly a number of aircraft with Garmin RNAV. I would install the IFD and not look back. It has better software than Garmin is selling these days in that tray size.
 
I can’t talk about installation issues, but I teach in airplanes with the IFD. IMO, moving from a 430 to a 440 has only two issues from an in-flight standpoint.

1. Garmin and Avidyne logic is different. Combine that with the superior IFD feature set, and expect a learning curve. Its steepness is user-dependent.
2. With longer flight plans and instrument approaches, the 440 interface can get a bit cluttered. Even more than the 430, you need to scroll to be sure that the active leg/waypoint is the one you want.
 
The 440 will slide in and replace the antiquated 430, with a minimum of effort. The UI is hugely improved, and logical, and I love the buttons + touchscreen dual interface on the IFD units -- to say nothing of the very handy hardware keyboard you can use with it.

The old Garmin trays can have their issues, the 440 tray that comes with the 440 is a superior product -- but installing the tray obviously raises the install cost. OTOH, if you are having troubles with connectivity of the connectors (antennas mainly), that is a solution to try.

* Orest
 
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There is a power user feature, actually not in the IFD manuals. Kind of a programmer Easter Egg.

If you fast spin the large knob on the right, with the FMS strip on the page, it will fast scroll from the origin airport, to the current active waypoint, to the destination, and back if you reverse it! Very handy on a long strip.

Being able to input multiple instances of the same airport, to set up multiple practice approaches, or add in an alternate or two (each with approaches preloaded) is a great capability. The flight strip "logic" is borrowed from the big boy FMS units, and actually very similar to the fabulous old Apollo CNX units. It is different from the Garmin logic, but in my view an improvement.

* Orest
 
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I did the swap. I also have S-Tec 60-2, and it all worked out great. I really like the logic, flow and use of the IFD. Seems so much more 'intuitive' in my mind. My 430W was in great shape and all, but I just wanted something different. Always struggled with the Garmin logic for some reason. All my systems worked great with it! Now i have a mint 430W I have to do something with, but oh well.
 
I remember when the IDF 440 was $10K, now it's $15K. I like Sarasota Avionics website because they give you prices based on trading in your existing equipment. For example, 430W to IDF440 is $12,389 Link

Garmin's closest replacement to the 430 is the GTN 650xi. If your trade in your 430W, it's only $11,249, which includes installation. Link The fact that it's not only cheaper, but it's Garmin, made me stop looking at Avidyne.
 
oskrypuch said:
Being able to input multiple instances of the same airport, to set up multiple practice approaches, or add in an alternate to two is a great capability.
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That is exactly what screwed up one of my clients a bit on his IPC, and the reason I mentioned the need to be sure to scroll to make sure you are it the correct instance of the airport or any other waypoint. Great feature on the 540/550; I think a little less useful on the 440.
 
Pushing the PROC key multiple times will scroll through selecting the STAR/Approaches at each of the destination airports in your flight strip. That may help co-ordinating selecting the correct one.

* Orest
 
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Lowflynjack said:
I remember when the IDF 440 was $10K, now it's $15K. I like Sarasota Avionics website because they give you prices based on trading in your existing equipment. For example, 430W to IDF440 is $12,389 Link

Garmin's closest replacement to the 430 is the GTN 650xi. If your trade in your 430W, it's only $11,249, which includes installation. Link The fact that it's not only cheaper, but it's Garmin, made me stop looking at Avidyne.
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Garmin may well be down pricing their units to move them, and that is just good business, as the premium on basic install can be significant for the GTN vs IFD units.

But that said, a difference of $1000 on the fly away price on an important piece of equipment like your primary GPS navigator, should be way down the list of criteria.

The design of the device is far more important. It is true that Garmin has added many of the missing "mini-features" that the IFDs introduced years ago, but the old Garmin UI and logic remains as does the touchscreen only interface. You should look carefully at both units to decide which you prefer, given each unit's organization, features and logic. You want to make the best choice, you will be using it for a while.

Android and Apple apps are available to demo and play around with the units, nice way to get familiar with them.

Happy shopping.

* Orest
 
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midlifeflyer said:
I can’t talk about installation issues, but I teach in airplanes with the IFD. IMO, moving from a 430 to a 440 has only two issues from an in-flight standpoint.

1. Garmin and Avidyne logic is different. Combine that with the superior IFD feature set, and expect a learning curve. Its steepness is user-dependent.
2. With longer flight plans and instrument approaches, the 440 interface can get a bit cluttered. Even more than the 430, you need to scroll to be sure that the active leg/waypoint is the one you want.
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I agree with your assessment. Also the small CDI function size on the IFD is a bit problematic if you needed to go partial panel in a steam gauge plane or are conducting instrument flight training.
 
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*IFD, not IDF

One thing to note is that the OP mentions he has a "430", not a "430W". Sometimes people colloquially drop the W in casual conversation, but when talking avionics upgrades it's important to be specific. If the OP really only has a non-W 430, then a new GPS antenna and cable will be required. Also, while the IFD 440 truly is a slide-in replacement, it does include some additional capability over the 430/430W that may require new wires to be run to take advantage of (for example: monitoring of the standby radio freq requires additional wiring to the audio panel, etc.).

I was an IFD540 early adopter (after Orest got me excited about them prior to their release) and have since upgraded to the IFD550. Great units--no regrets whatsoever!
 
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I had a GNS430W, with which I was perfectly happy; but when the IFD440 came out, a review of features, coupled with the certainty of the 430's obsolescence, I opted to do the upgrade to the IFD440. No regrets at all - it has been flawless.

Couple of added benefits:

1. The IFD100 app - an iPad app that effectively makes the iPad into another, larger screen navigator which can do everything the IFD 440 can do except transmit/receive radio and, of course, tune in VORs. But, you can control the 440 with it, and it is an amazing force multiplier. Mount the iPad (a Mini works perfectly for this) on or near the panel and you have another, larger IFD screen to use.

2. The user interface - it is much more logical than the 430 ever was, and (to my way of thinking) than the 650 is - this is, of course, a user preference thing. I like having knobs and buttons, especially in rougher air.

I'll acknowledge one interesting irritation: while it's true that the GNS430s logic is... odd... over the years, one becomes familiar with its quirks, and I still some times (years later, mind you) find my self thinking, now how do I do that, and want to hit "Direct-Direct-Enter," or whatever.

Mine has never exhibited the hot bezel described above, and it makes me wonder whether the ventilation of the unit behind the panel is adequate.

Last thing is, that deal for an installed 650 for $12,849 is remarkable - I've never seen any shop offering anything close to that. If it weren't from a reputable shop like Sarasota, I'd be suspicious. Of course, if you aren't near the shop, the advantage fades a bit, too!

Let us know what you decide.
 
Of note, an IFD440 (or 540) will actually work with a non-WAAS GPS antenna (as for a non-"W" 430)!

But it will have to restrict function given the limitations of that antenna hardware. That lets you get going quickly, and allowing you to update the GPS antenna to WAAS at a later date -- something you really do want to do eventually.

* Orest
 
Flyhound said:
I have an older Garmin GNS 430 nav/com in my panel but the internal squelch drifts out of position regularly. I found a local shop that will put it on the bench and correct the problem since Garmin no linger supports this unit. Garmin's minimum price for taking in equipment for troubleshooting in beyond unreasonable anyway, so I wouldn't send the radio to them even if they still supported it. I'm thinking of replacing the 430 with Avidyne's IDF 440 since that unit is the exact same size as the 430 and has the same connection ports. That would minimize installation cost. I've read about the Avidyne unit and I've watched some of their YouTube tutorials and the unit seems impressive, but I don't know anyone with experience using their equipment. Are there any IDF 440 users on this forum that could share their ownership/operating experience. It would be even more helpful to my decision making if the Avidyne user has or had experience with Garmin equipment as a comparison. What I'm interested in is clarity of the information displayed, ease of accessing typical menu options used in flight (both VFR and IFR), and any maintenance headaches. Will the Avidyne 440 work with my existing VOR displays (both Mid-Continent MD200 CDI w/Glideslope)? Any feedback appreciated.
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We have it in the Lake. It is nice and quite colorful, but having also flown with the larger model---that is the way to go if you can. If you can't, its a good unit and a lot of functionality. I prefer having the buttons and the touch screen option over the Garmin.
 

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I upgraded from my 430W to a 440 not long after buying my aircraft. The slide-in replacement was very easy.

I only kept it about 3 months - because I liked it so much that I upgraded to the 540. 7 years on, all is working well.
 
Flyhound said:
I have an older Garmin GNS 430 nav/com in my panel but the internal squelch drifts out of position regularly. I found a local shop that will put it on the bench and correct the problem since Garmin no linger supports this unit. Garmin's minimum price for taking in equipment for troubleshooting in beyond unreasonable anyway, so I wouldn't send the radio to them even if they still supported it. I'm thinking of replacing the 430 with Avidyne's IDF 440 since that unit is the exact same size as the 430 and has the same connection ports. That would minimize installation cost. I've read about the Avidyne unit and I've watched some of their YouTube tutorials and the unit seems impressive, but I don't know anyone with experience using their equipment. Are there any IDF 440 users on this forum that could share their ownership/operating experience. It would be even more helpful to my decision making if the Avidyne user has or had experience with Garmin equipment as a comparison. What I'm interested in is clarity of the information displayed, ease of accessing typical menu options used in flight (both VFR and IFR), and any maintenance headaches. Will the Avidyne 440 work with my existing VOR displays (both Mid-Continent MD200 CDI w/Glideslope)? Any feedback appreciated.
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I have the IFD 440 paired with the Dynon Skyview touch. Great combination. As GPS/Comm/Navs go, the IFD440 works great and has lots of great features. The IFD100 controls/display on an IPad being one of them. The ease of installation in your pre-existing slot being another. That said, I have no use for a larger screen format like the IFD 550 or the larger Garmin units since the Skyview already provides all of that. If you are flying off steam gauges you will benefit more from the enhanced SA of a larger screen. For me the 440 serves the same role as an FMS.
 
Lowflynjack said:
I remember when the IDF 440 was $10K, now it's $15K. I like Sarasota Avionics website because they give you prices based on trading in your existing equipment. For example, 430W to IDF440 is $12,389 Link

Garmin's closest replacement to the 430 is the GTN 650xi. If your trade in your 430W, it's only $11,249, which includes installation. Link The fact that it's not only cheaper, but it's Garmin, made me stop looking at Avidyne.
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Not an apples to apples comparison.

Even if Garmin is cheaper, the 650 requires pulling out the tray and rewiring the airplane...430 to 650 is not plug and play, by Garmin's design choice.
Garmin logic is different - and many do prefer the buttons and knobs on the 440/540/550 over the pure touchscreen approach when bouncing around in the soup.

We install both as well as Dynon / Trig / Trio and more - and GPS brands are like religion.
 
theplanesalon said:
Not an apples to apples comparison.

Even if Garmin is cheaper, the 650 requires pulling out the tray and rewiring the airplane...430 to 650 is not plug and play, by Garmin's design choice.
Garmin logic is different - and many do prefer the buttons and knobs on the 440/540/550 over the pure touchscreen approach when bouncing around in the soup.

We install both as well as Dynon / Trig / Trio and more - and GPS brands are like religion.
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They say their price for the 650xi, $11,249, includes installation. I would choose the 650xi if it comes out cheaper than the IDF 440 without installation.
 
Lowflynjack said:
They say their price for the 650xi, $11,249, includes installation. I would choose the 650xi if it comes out cheaper than the IDF 440 without installation.
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You know? I stand corrected. I get how they're doing it now. They sell the 430 for $3989, which helps fund the installation.
 
theplanesalon said:
You know? I stand corrected. I get how they're doing it now. They sell the 430 for $3989, which helps fund the installation.
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I don't know what I don't know. Just looking at their website! Appreciate the real world input.
 
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Avidyne just came up in a discussion at my avionics shop. The owner requested a "plug-in" swap and apparently it is becoming an headache. The shop has done a number of Avidyne installations, but if you go to do just the swap they are finding all sorts of hoops they need to jump through PENDING what other equipment is in the plane. Besides some STC issues where you have to confirm that either from the Avidyne side or (for example) the Garmin side that the installation is covered to work with the other devices. Also there is apparent a potential Garmin autopilot issue that is bubbling up and he said neither side is taking ownership or even officially acknowledging it.

So nothing against Avidyne, just saying to make sure you can "add" it to a panel with other manufacturers devices. You don't want to buy it and pay to have it installed, only to find out it there are issues.
 
I've been strongly contemplating swapping out the Garmin 430W for an IFD440 later this summer and am spending time researching.

FWIW, my radio shop has done a number of these upgrades and reports there are a few idiosyncrasies that shouldn't be considered problems, but the customer must be disclosed up front before the decision is made to do it.

Pretty much everything you are currently doing and viewing on your 430W will be available on the IFD440, so the upgrade is compatible. However, some of the features available on a new IFD440 installation (not a 430W swap) won't happen following the swap out.

All in all, he claims the IFD440 is a great, and reliable unit. Some pilots have a hard time adjusting to the different logic of the IFD440 and initially regret the swap out. While others completely love it and wished they'd done it sooner. Guess it depends upon how your brain works...
 
Rick A said:
All in all, he claims the IFD440 is a great, and reliable unit. Some pilots have a hard time adjusting to the different logic of the IFD440 and initially regret the swap out. While others completely love it and wished they'd done it sooner. Guess it depends upon how your brain works...
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Pretty much. Some are more technologically adept and adaptable than others. I’m looking for that early on when I give transition training. I see everything from quick recognition of commonality to a blank stare when I say “this function works just like with your [prior box].” (Sometimes they had no real idea how the old one worked.)
 
midlifeflyer said:
Pretty much. Some are more technologically adept and adaptable than others. I’m looking for that early on when I give transition training. I see everything from quick recognition of commonality to a blank stare when I say “this function works just like with your [prior box].” (Sometimes they had no real idea how the old one worked.)
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This is why I'm waiting until later this summer to make the possible switch. I've got a couple of long trips scheduled and don't want to fly them while learning what I need to know on a different box. On a scale of one to ten for aviation related electronic operations, I'm a seven at best... my Grandkids are much quicker learners. Your services could be needed, and appreciated!
 
I did the 530 to the IFD 540. It definitely has a learning curve, but one you get familiar, it really is a great system. And the price of the j it was cheaper than Garmin, and labor was really reduced.
 
Rick A said:
This is why I'm waiting until later this summer to make the possible switch. I've got a couple of long trips scheduled and don't want to fly them while learning what I need to know on a different box. On a scale of one to ten for aviation related electronic operations, I'm a seven at best... my Grandkids are much quicker learners. Your services could be needed, and appreciated!
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Heck, Gary Reeves, love him or hate him, has made a career out of "avionics mastery" training. I'm too old to want to go that far, but I get my share.

I learned that the disconnect isn't even related to intelligence or tech savvy. The first person I taught G1000 to was a software engineer who still had a bit of difficulty with it.

BTW, have you done Avidyne training series and have a copy of the Michael Bauer book? Both are excellent, especially used together. I had one client who got most of their basic knowledge that way (I assign the video series), so all we had to do was some of my universal gotchas.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Heck, Gary Reeves, love him or hate him, has made a career out of "avionics mastery" training. I'm too old to want to go that far, but I get my share.

I learned that the disconnect isn't even related to intelligence or tech savvy. The first person I taught G1000 to was a software engineer who still had a bit of difficulty with it.

BTW, have you done Avidyne training series and have a copy of the Michael Bauer book? Both are excellent, especially used together. I had one client who got most of their basic knowledge that way (I assign the video series), so all we had to do was some of my universal gotchas.
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All I've done so far is watch a few YouTube videos and read the comments here. They offered enough info to realize the lay out and operation of the IFD is more intuitive and brain friendly (for me) than the 430W which I've never really liked from day one over 25 years ago.

Thanks for the Bauer book recommendation. Reading is my preferred method of learning. Never heard of Reeves, but don't want to work hard and often enough to obtain any semblance approaching mastery (too lazy and busy). But would like to evolve past and simplify some of the operating practices I've created and gotten used to flying on the 430W.

Even though not a fan of the 430W, it's been working well for me. After viewing the videos, an IFD should be a much better fit. Per your recommendation, I'll plan on doing the Avidyne video series and Bauer book as a starter. Much appreciated!
 
Two thumbs up, on the Bauer book. So sad that he passed, but Avidyne has picked it up and will continue to update it I expect.

* Orest
 
midlifeflyer said:
BTW, have you done Avidyne training series and have a copy of the Michael Bauer book? Both are excellent, especially used together. I had one client who got most of their basic knowledge that way (I assign the video series), so all we had to do was some of my universal gotchas.
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Just make sure whatever guide (book or video) you're using is close to the software version on your IFD. There have been multiple software upgrades over the years, and some of the features have evolved over that time.
 
oskrypuch said:
Two thumbs up, on the Bauer book. So sad that he passed, but Avidyne has picked it up and will continue to update it I expect.

* Orest
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I don't know the status, but I think Gary Reeves was going to be working on updates. That was a while back and AFAIK the current edition is still the Third. Fortunately, the current edition still covers a lot of what you need to know. Obviously, software updates with new features happen, but the idea at the beginning is to get a basic grounding.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Heck, Gary Reeves, love him or hate him, has made a career out of "avionics mastery" training.
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I used to see a lot of posts from him on other sites. But now that you mention his name, I haven't seen any from him in a while.

I'm assuming all is good with him and I just haven't seen his Pink Shirt posts.
 
Don't mean to threadjack, but I also have an ifd 440 paired with a dynon panel. Problem is the ifd is essentially a navcom for me. I have the Bauer books but havent started ifr training yet. Been wanting to get more fluent with the ifd. Should I read the ifd books first or start instrument ground first?
 
Racerx said:
Don't mean to threadjack, but I also have an ifd 440 paired with a dynon panel. Problem is the ifd is essentially a navcom for me. I have the Bauer books but havent started ifr training yet. Been wanting to get more fluent with the ifd. Should I read the ifd books first or start instrument ground first?
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I think that's an interesting question. Instrument ground is going to teach you rules, regulations, procedures. The Bauer book is going to teach you how to use the unit. It's very practical and scenario based - here's how to put in a flight plan... here's how to... Instrument ground will go into some of that, but expect most of the examples to be Garmin.

I think there's a middle ground. Your comment suggests that you are mostly using the GPS in the Dynon for flight planning etc. If that's the case, start using the IFD instead. The first half dozen chapters in Bauer apply to VFR almost as much as IFR (unless your entire idea of a flight plan is to tap the D→ button). Then save the hold and approach, etc lessons for when they would make more sense.

I'm doing post-certificate/rating training, but that's kind of the tack I take with first timers. Learn how to use it VFR. Do a cross country where you include intermediate waypoints. Make up a need for a diversion and use the IFD to choose a nearby airport and navigate there. Get comfortable with the interface. Then we'll start adding instrument-specific stuff.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I think that's an interesting question. Instrument ground is going to teach you rules, regulations, procedures. The Bauer book is going to teach you how to use the unit. It's very practical and scenario based - here's how to put in a flight plan... here's how to... Instrument ground will go into some of that, but expect most of the examples to be Garmin.

I think there's a middle ground. Your comment suggests that you are mostly using the GPS in the Dynon for flight planning etc. If that's the case, start using the IFD instead. The first half dozen chapters in Bauer apply to VFR almost as much as IFR (unless your entire idea of a flight plan is to tap the D→ button). Then save the hold and approach, etc lessons for when they would make more sense.

I'm doing post-certificate/rating training, but that's kind of the tack I take with first timers. Learn how to use it VFR. Do a cross country where you include intermediate waypoints. Make up a need for a diversion and use the IFD to choose a nearby airport and navigate there. Get comfortable with the interface. Then we'll start adding instrument-specific stuff.
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I've done both using dynon and avidyne. Usually though I'm just sending the plan from foreflight over to whichever box I want for that particular flight. I've done it manually but just easier to hit send to panel.
 
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