ATC informs me of traffic 500' below me while I am IFR

Woosh. Right over my head. Wtf is popeye? o.0

And I have a feeling ima feel really dumb when you 'splain it to me :)
Nah. Ain’t sumpin anyone should really know. It’s a Navy/Marine thing. Popeye literally means you are in the clouds. I don’t know if they use it much anymore. There’s some Naval Aviators here with some fairly recent experience, maybe they’ll pipe in.
 
Thankfully rarely happens here. Wish it were never. I usually give a “in clouds, can’t see.” But would still prefer to miss that non-delight of clouds whipping by while I’m pretending my eyes and ears agree.
 
What is worse..having ATC call out unidentified traffic while you are in IMC or finding it on your own ?

I've had a tcas alert when imc (over Denver), and ours did not have RA's so that was pretty uncomfortable. A couple of seconds waiting for approach to sort us out feels. like. forever.
 
Popeye used to mean you were in the clouds.
Thanks. Still feeling stupid because I don't see the connection or relation.

Wait... Are we talking the sailor man or chicken restaurant? o.0

Yeah, got nothing for either. Maybe I'll rack my brain over a can of spinach...
 
Thanks. Still feeling stupid because I don't see the connection or relation.

Wait... Are we talking the sailor man or chicken restaurant? o.0

Yeah, got nothing for either. Maybe I'll rack my brain over a can of spinach...

No need to feel stupid. Unless you flew in the Navy / USMC or controlled those aircraft, you probably wouldn’t know the term existed. It’s one of those things that probably should be kept for shipboard ops and not be used in ATC in the NAS, but like the other terms such as “Angels,” they sometimes let it slip.

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I was coming back from North Carolina last week at 8,000' on an IFR flight plan..... ATC informs me of VFR traffic my 11:00 at 7,500' and 5 miles, type and intentions unknown............I am completely in IMC due to haze/smoke and have negative ground contact. There is no way I could have seen the traffic due to NO visibility. There is no doubt in my mind that the traffic should NOT be VFR as it is complete IMC......

Anyone besides me ever have that happen?
All the time. They don't know what your current conditions are, and you don't know what the other plane's experiencing 5 miles away. Like others have said, tell ATC that you're in cloud and ask for continued advisories until you're past the traffic.

In Canada (at least), when ATC has unknown traffic, they'll add "unverified" after the altitude. For all they know, the other plane's really at 2,500 ft and its transponder is acting up.
 
We hear "unverified" occasionally in the U.S. too.
 
Yes. So how you do it is just do it without asking. Easy peasy. If ya get caught, getting outta trouble ain’t gonna be so easy peasy
You can fly in IFR conditions without talking to anyone by that method (illegally), but I don't think you're flying IFR.
 
You can fly in IFR conditions without talking to anyone by that method (illegally), but I don't think you're flying IFR.
Hmm. IFBR, instrument flight breaking rules?:idea: You can fly in G without Clearance but there are IFR rules you have to follow when doing it. Don't think that's gonna get ya off the hook though. But Your Honor, I was like a 1000 feet above the rocks flying right altitude for direction when I was zipping along there in the E, so hows about giving me a break here.
 
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All the time. They don't know what your current conditions are, and you don't know what the other plane's experiencing 5 miles away. Like others have said, tell ATC that you're in cloud and ask for continued advisories until you're past the traffic.

In Canada (at least), when ATC has unknown traffic, they'll add "unverified" after the altitude. For all they know, the other plane's really at 2,500 ft and its transponder is acting up.

A non validated Mode C traffic advisory in the US is simply “altitude indicates XXX.”
 
Nah. Ain’t sumpin anyone should really know. It’s a Navy/Marine thing. Popeye literally means you are in the clouds. I don’t know if they use it much anymore. There’s some Naval Aviators here with some fairly recent experience, maybe they’ll pipe in.

No need to feel stupid. Unless you flew in the Navy / USMC or controlled those aircraft, you probably wouldn’t know the term existed. It’s one of those things that probably should be kept for shipboard ops and not be used in ATC in the NAS, but like the other terms such as “Angels,” they sometimes let it slip.

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Its not just Navy/Marines that use “Popeye.” Popeye is a recognized international brevity code, mostly for tactical aircraft but anyone who’s flown in the military will know a fair amount of there.

Here’s a pretty comprehensive list:

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN32045-ATP_1-02.1-001-WEB-3.pdf

But like @Velocity173 said, we try to keep these to the AOR and in the local military traffic area, but sometimes it’s just easier especially if it’s widely recognized by ATC. For example “Can I get a Uniform (UHF) frequency for them?”
 
Its not just Navy/Marines that use “Popeye.” Popeye is a recognized international brevity code, mostly for tactical aircraft but anyone who’s flown in the military will know a fair amount of there.

Here’s a pretty comprehensive list:

https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN32045-ATP_1-02.1-001-WEB-3.pdf

But like @Velocity173 said, we try to keep these to the AOR and in the local military traffic area, but sometimes it’s just easier especially if it’s widely recognized by ATC. For example “Can I get a Uniform (UHF) frequency for them?”

Yeah popeye is multi service but is far more popular with the Navy / USMC guys. You’d be hard pressed to find an Army dude that knows what it means. Then again, they never fly IMC so they wouldn’t know. :D

“Cherubs” is another one. I remember in Iraq it was common for the Marine helos to use it. We just stuck with simple English on altitudes.
 
Once when I said "negative contact," the controller responded as if I had said "contact."
That's a controller who has heard too many pilots use non-standard phraseology.

"Negative contact" and "Traffic in sight" share no common words. That is intentional to avoid misunderstanding. When pilots use "contact", "negative traffic", "positive contact", or other variations, it increases the opportunity for misunderstanding.
 
That's a controller who has heard too many pilots use non-standard phraseology.

That was my interpretation as well, although in reality, I'm not sure I have heard many pilots saying just "contact."

"Negative contact" and "Traffic in sight" share no common words. That is intentional to avoid misunderstanding. When pilots use "contact", "negative traffic", "positive contact", or other variations, it increases the opportunity for misunderstanding.[/QUOTE]

I agree, but "looking" is so common that it's probably unlikely to be misunderstood, and won't be misheard as "contact."
 
Then throw a “Judy” at him when you finally see the traffic.
I think Tally Ho would be better. If he knew what Judy meant, which I never had until that document you posted, he'd probably freak out and start screaming 'oh my gawd, he's gonna shoot the traffic down.' Now that you've shown us that, aren't you supposed to like shoot us.:goofy:
 
I think Tally Ho would be better. If he knew what Judy meant, which I never had until that document you posted, he'd probably freak out and start screaming 'oh my gawd, he's gonna shoot the traffic down.' Now that you've shown us that, aren't you supposed to like shoot us.:goofy:

Judy is different than tally ho and tally ho is different than visual (traffic in sight). Oh too many code words. :confused:
 
I'll guess the U.S. military borrowed "tally ho" from the RAF during the Second World War (?). I don't think it's part of U.S. hunting jargon.
It's funny if you read through that manual, how many US pop-culture references became "offical" brevity code words. For instance "Miller Time" and "Candygram."
 
I was coming back from North Carolina last week at 8,000' on an IFR flight plan..... ATC informs me of VFR traffic my 11:00 at 7,500' and 5 miles, type and intentions unknown............I am completely in IMC due to haze/smoke and have negative ground contact. There is no way I could have seen the traffic due to NO visibility. There is no doubt in my mind that the traffic should NOT be VFR as it is complete IMC......

Anyone besides me ever have that happen?

Green dot in ForeFlight means VFR, go fly. :rolleyes:
 
Request 10,000 feet for greater separation.

There used to be a plane at KCGS with a sign on it "TYPE AND ALTITUDE UNKNOWN".
He was proud of that description of his radar return to other pilots as he monitored the appropriate frequency with his hand held comm with an external antenna.

He moved elsewhere when the regulations of 9 11 came in. He did all his flying without a flight plan, and usually low, but had a functional 6 pack, and claimed to know how to use them.
 
No one said you can do it legally.
You can’t fly IMC legally in class E, but I think he was concentrating on the R part. Indeed if that’s his point, I get it.

That said, I have flown a 700 mile stretch at FL380 without communication. Departed Seattle enroute to Dillingham, Alaska.
At one point, Vancouver center said “crossing 145W, contact Anchorage on xxx.xx.”
I put 145W in the box, then saw it was about 700 miles with no communications.
 
You can’t fly IMC legally in class E, but I think he was concentrating on the R part. Indeed if that’s his point, I get it.

That said, I have flown a 700 mile stretch at FL380 without communication. Departed Seattle enroute to Dillingham, Alaska.
At one point, Vancouver center said “crossing 145W, contact Anchorage on xxx.xx.”
I put 145W in the box, then saw it was about 700 miles with no communications.
He mention requiring a clearance in controlled airspace. I agree with you there are times when you are not talking to someone while on an IFR flight plan.
 
No one said you can do it legally.
According to the FAA, IFR means, "Rules and regulations established by the Federal Aviation Administration to govern flight under conditions in which flight by outside visual reference is not safe. IFR flight depends upon flying by reference to instruments in the cockpit, and navigation is done by reference to electronic signals." So if you are not following those rules, you are not flying IFR; you are merely flying illegally in IFR conditions.
 
According to the FAA, IFR means, "Rules and regulations established by the Federal Aviation Administration to govern flight under conditions in which flight by outside visual reference is not safe. IFR flight depends upon flying by reference to instruments in the cockpit, and navigation is done by reference to electronic signals." So if you are not following those rules, you are not flying IFR; you are merely flying illegally in IFR conditions.
Ah, I see what you were doing now. But let’s play. By your logic here, anytime you don’t ‘follow’ the rules, you are not flying IFR. Like if you’re in Controlled Airspace and you did get an ATC Clearance, but you broke some Rule, then you are no no longer flying IFR. Say you don’t have a current Pitot Static Cert. Then you haven’t followed a Rule so you are not IFR.??
 
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Nah. Ain’t sumpin anyone should really know. It’s a Navy/Marine thing. Popeye literally means you are in the clouds. I don’t know if they use it much anymore. There’s some Naval Aviators here with some fairly recent experience, maybe they’ll pipe in.

It's still a term. Not sure if I have ever needed to use it before.
 
Popeye? We use it fairly routinely in usaf pilot training, especially in the mid mornings where things are technically MVFR but they put us right in the cloud deck for the radar downwind. Traffic above and below us are vfr so they constatly call out traffic we cannot pick up visually. Controllers here are plenty familiar, it hasn't been a problem.
 
Not sure how much value this adds, but just a reminder that ATC doesn't separate IFR from VFR in Class E, so there's no transition to visual separation. Doing so would imply that prior to that point, IFR separation standards were being applied. They're not.

You'll also hear instances where ATC will advise you of (IFR) traffic passing 1000ft above or below you. When aircraft are going to pass each other with minimum separation, ATC issues the traffic call. You can simply respond with "roger, [callsign]." A hint that they're going to actually utilize vis sep is if the traffic call also includes, "report traffic in sight" or words to that effect.
 
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