Are you using a tablet?

flyingcheesehead said:
ADS-B Traffic is perfectly reliable - Provided you have ADS-B Out. If you don't, it will never be more reliable. Of course, in theory, in 2020 we'll all have it.
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Fair enough, reliable isn't the proper word, but you get the point. As a portable solution, switching from airplane to airplane with your tablet, it just isn't practical yet until more people have ADS-B out. Sure, the traffic that you do see is where it shows, but you can't depend on it to show everyone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Nexus 7 (2013) version.

Avare and currently demoing the iFly GPS android app beta release.

In process of making my own custom mount for my RV-6.

Would like to try ADS-B weather and traffic, but portable ADS-B receivers capable of feeding a tablet still beginning in price at $650+ is still stupid expensive for 2014. The market should be flooded with tons of these made in China for around $200 or less by now.
 
iFly. Started with it on their hardware before iPad came to market. Stayed with it because the screen was sunlight-readable. Now starting to use it on Android.

Android. Can't answer why in an easy sentence other than, "Because I like it."

I use a RAM yoke mount and really like it.

ADS-B weather is important enough that I bought a SkyRadar receiver in 2011 to get weather, and ADSB traffic is important enough that this year I bought a SkyGuardTWX transceiver to get better traffic in addition to weather.
 
Yes
Asus Infinity 10" Android Tablet
Avilution software (I'm a big fan)
Dual XGPS Bluetooth GPS receiver with ADSB-in

I choose an Android tablet because I had an Android phone and lots of APPS already. I like being able to use SD cards for extra memory and Apple doesn't support that. I also like being able to run more than one app at a time. My tablet has 32 GB of internal memory, and I have several 32 GB memory cards. I use one memory card for movies when I travel.

I live in the DC area and the airspace here is littered with restricted airspace, plus the SFRA that surrounds Washington. The extra situational awareness the tablet offers is a godsend when flying around here.

I also have a G-430 WAAS receiver in the panel of my Maule. I keep the 430 for my rare IFR flights, but I rely heavily on the Android tablet for ADSB weather, traffic and for VFR situational awareness flying around the complicated airspace that surrounds DC. Whether I am flying into or across the SFRA, or threading the needle through the restricted airspace of Dalgren, Patauxent River and the SFRA on a flight to the beach, the detailed overlay of my position on the sectional with weather and traffic information the tablet provides is far more informative than anything the 430 can offer. The Avilution database is the same information used by Garmin at 1/10 the price. When I flew my plane back to Virginia from the Seattle, WA last summer, the ADSB weather was invaluable for getting around the violent thunderstorms that blocked a lot of the central part of the country. Those storms were nasty enough that filling IFR and trying to go through them was not an option. With ADSB I no longer have to pay for an XM subscription to get weather, it's free going forward. The traffic isn't all that useful yet because not that many aircraft have ADSB out.

I rambled too much, but i hope some of this was helpful.
 
I will never buy another Apple product. I'm tired of the overbearing philosophy, which forces users to "jailbreak" the devices in order to get capabilities which are standard features in the Android platform.

That said, I have both an iPad mini running FlyQEFB and a Nexus 7 running Naviator.

Both are strong apps, overshadowed by WingX and ForeFlight but in the same range of feature sets.

The sole advantage of the iPad mini over the Nexus is the wider screen format. Both tablets fit nicely on kneepads or yoke mounts.
 
SoloEqs said:
I will never buy another Apple product. I'm tired of the overbearing philosophy, which forces users to "jailbreak" the devices in order to get capabilities which are standard features in the Android platform.
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Drama queen much? LOL
 
SoloEqs said:
I will never buy another Apple product. I'm tired of the overbearing philosophy...

That said, I have both an iPad mini running FlyQEFB and a Nexus 7 running Naviator.
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Huh :confused:
 
Ipad Air, FF Pro, on my knees when I need it, don't know about ADS-B (never used it).
 
I own both a 64G iPad1 and a Nexus 7. For all general purposes I greatly prefer the Nexus 7. The only advantage I can see for the iPad is greater battery life. I also prefer the smaller form factor of the Nexus.

When flying I use Foreflight on my iPhone5 held to the Windshield, and my iPad on a kneeboard.

I committed to FF when I bought a Stratus .

FF is NOT reliable on my iPad, it crashes a lot, which is why I have the iPhone right there as a backup.

I know, I know, I need to get an iPad mini and jettison my prehistoric iPad1. :frown2:
 
iPad 3 using FlyQ.
Inflight Weather would be nice. Have some traffic thru 430w.
 
JimNtexas said:
FF is NOT reliable on my iPad, it crashes a lot, which is why I have the iPhone right there as a backup.

I know, I know, I need to get an iPad mini and jettison my prehistoric iPad1. :frown2:
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Don't know about the mini (the 7" tablet for main use is not a personal preference I share) but it is definitely time to upgrade from the 1st Gen iPad.
 
JimNtexas said:
FF is NOT reliable on my iPad, it crashes a lot, which is why I have the iPhone right there as a backup.

I know, I know, I need to get an iPad mini and jettison my prehistoric iPad1. :frown2:
Click to expand...

To be blunt, yes, your ipad is crashing because it's an iPad 1. Unfortunately those iPads have never worked well with any of the recent iOS versions because they're crippled with 256MB of RAM. That's why Apple discontinued it so early but has kept making the iPad 2 even today -- 512MB should have been the absolute minimum for the iPad 1. Even web browsing on an iPad 1 results in frequent crashes from what I've seen.
 
JimNtexas said:
I own both a 64G iPad1 and a Nexus 7. For all general purposes I greatly prefer the Nexus 7. The only advantage I can see for the iPad is greater battery life. I also prefer the smaller form factor of the Nexus.

When flying I use Foreflight on my iPhone5 held to the Windshield, and my iPad on a kneeboard.

I committed to FF when I bought a Stratus .

FF is NOT reliable on my iPad, it crashes a lot, which is why I have the iPhone right there as a backup.

I know, I know, I need to get an iPad mini and jettison my prehistoric iPad1. :frown2:
Click to expand...

Yes, you really do. That's why you're getting the crashes, just about any app will crash more on the iPad 1 these days... They maybe kept supporting iOS even a version past where they really should have, though it'd have been a quick sunset otherwise.

You won't be getting any more updates to ForeFlight or *ANY* of your apps: As of Feb. 1, all new apps (and versions) submitted to the App Store are required to support only iOS 6 or above, and the iPad 1 does not even support iOS 6. You'll be able to reload the newest version of an app that will work with your iPad, but you won't be seeing any more updates.

I would advise anyone who still has an iPad 1 to update now. There won't be any more updates to the iPad line until October or so. I would also highly recommend avoiding the non-Retina iPad Mini and the iPad 2 if you're inclined to keep your tech as long as you have the iPad 1, since both the Mini and the 2 are based on technology only a year newer than the iPad 1 and likely won't be supported nearly as long as the more powerful Retina iPad Mini or iPad Air. Yes, you'll spend an extra hundred bucks now, but that'll more than pay for itself in the long run by making it last longer.
 
Since I work in technology I run fairly redundant. For my Civil Air Patrol stuff I use WingX on an iPad Retina Mini(WiFi so either the Garmin GLO or the Delorme inReach as GPS). For my personal flying it's usually Garmin Pilot on Samsung TabPRO 8.4 with the Mini as backup also with Garmin Pilot. The main apps are also backed up with PDF copies of the A/FD and Approach plates on both devices and on my phone. And usually I have a sectional loaded onto a non-aviation mapping app as well(Orux Maps on Android, Gallileo on iOS) And all backed up with a paper sectional and at least a paper approach plate for my planned destination. It still all weighs less than when I was carrying actual paper approach plate binders, A/FD and enroutes.
 
Nexus 7 running Garmin Pilot
Suction cup mount
external GPS receiver (bluetooth)
No weather info - I don't fly that far from home

Once I got a few mounting bugs worked out - it's been working like a champ. Perfect size and resolution even for an old guy.
 
Nexus 7 with Garmin Pilot, Naviator, Metam, and FlightLog, DTC DUAT, FlyQ
Suction cup mount.
With a power outlet in the plane, I've used it for some serious cross country flying.
 
I was FF user, went to nexus 7 and garmin pilot for a year, now back to FF on a mini. Ram mount on middle of dual yokes.
 
Nexus 7: iFly (Yoke)
iPad Mini: Xavion (RAM Suction)
iLevil for ADS-B/AHRS to both
 
Apple Mini Retina
Yoke mount using Ram X-grip
Garmin Pilot
GDL-39
Weather & traffic very important. You build an ADS-B out/in receiver compatible with Garmin Pilot, I buy...


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nubbs01 said:
New to the forum and just want to get a take on what you are using when you fly.

What app do you use and do you use that particular app
Are you using an Android or Apple tablet and why?
Curious how you are mounting the tablet.
How important is ADS-B weather and traffic for you?
Click to expand...

1. Garmin Pilot and also testing out Avare for Android (a free app)
2. Nexus 7. I like the size, built in GPS, display and open development.
3. Person in the right seat holds on to it.
4. Not really needed.
 
nubbs01 said:
New to the forum and just want to get a take on what you are using when you fly.

What app do you use and do you use that particular app
Are you using an Android or Apple tablet and why?
Curious how you are mounting the tablet.
How important is ADS-B weather and traffic for you?
Click to expand...

iPad Air with Verizon running ForeFlight, FlyQ EFB, and Garmin Pilot (in that order of preference at this time.)
Backed up by Nexus 7 (Second gen) running Garmin Pilot

I use RAM mounts....suction mount on side windows in temporary rides, mounted to the Bonanza's center yoke when flying it. The X-Grip works well for the Nexus 7, often with yoke mount.

Would love to buy ADS-B, but hate proprietary solutions supporting a single product, hence my hesitance to buy Stratus or GDL-39. I will eventually buy one. Currently there's a huge hole in coverage where I most often fly.
 
MAKG1 said:
In flight, these require too much attention and must be cross-checked more than other methods. Having seen multiple cases of wrong and highly misleading navigational solutions, I don't trust it at all.
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Would like to hear some examples of this issue, as I haven't seen anything of the sort in 2.5 years and over 1,000 of flying with my iPad and ForeFlight. It has always jived perfectly with the 430/430W that's usually in the panel...both are always programmed the same.

When given a reroute in flight I'll usually put it into ForeFlight first (since it's quicker), turn to the new heading via FF, then add it to the 430. It's never failed me.

I'd hate to fly without it anymore.
 
What app do you use and do you use that particular app
ForeFlight. Not as much as I thought I would. I use it more on the ground than in the air.

Are you using an Android or Apple tablet and why?
Apple w/ Retina

Curious how you are mounting the tablet.
I don't. It hangs out where I put it.

How important is ADS-B weather and traffic for you?
So-So. I can fly with them, I can fly without them.
 
No. I had to go light sport 8 years ago. I've had a champ and a cub. Just used an Icom and a chart. 100 mile trips , no more. My last, a t craft, was flown from maryland to Arizona by a pal with same, Icom and several charts.plus old garmin gps. He also brought a cub from Alabama to maryland, same way. Lindbergh went to Paris without much, charts, pen knife, ball of string. Read the book " "WE" it describes what he took with him.
 
Marauder said:
You build an ADS-B out/in receiver compatible with Garmin Pilot, I buy...
Click to expand...

That's easier said than done: It's Garmin Pilot that needs to be compatible with the receiver, not the other way around. For Garmin Pilot to work with something other than a GDL-39, either Garmin would have to write in support for another manufacturer's hardware, or a hardware manufacturer would have to do some reverse engineering of the GDL39's output and design hardware that pretended to be a GDL-39.

That's why you're seeing this exclusivity between hardware and software: Garmin Pilot and GDL-39 are always going to be exclusive to each other. ForeFlight and the Stratus are theoretically a bit less so (see below), and then you've got Hilton who really busts his butt and spends a lot of time trying to support all the rest.

As for ForeFlight and the Stratus - I've been pestering Appareo to open up a little bit. As it turns out, the Stratus isn't locked down - They don't encrypt the output at all - They simply haven't given the specifications for it to anyone but ForeFlight, as they're afraid they'll have to spend too much time and money on developer support and documenting the API. Someone with a WiFi sniffer and some time on their hands could monitor the communications between ForeFlight and a Stratus and figure out the protocols and use the Stratus in their software. Again, nobody wants to spend the time/money for that. :(

I think there need to be some more standards for all of these cockpit gadgets - If all of the devices could communicate with all of the software, we'd all be better off. I'm not sure how things are supposed to work when, for example, you have the Aspen Connected Panel and a Stratus. I'm guessing the simple answer is, they don't - You'd have to keep switching the WiFi back and forth on the iPad, which is a non-starter.

Sigh.
 
The only tablets I use are the ones I take in the morning. Have an Aera 560 with XM\WX on the yoke and love it. Also have a 530W with traffic (ATD-300) and very happy with it. Unlike the 560 & 530W the tablet maps are too cluttered for me and when you fly south the map text is upside down. The 560 and 530 have vertical guidance for descent and approaches, the tablets has none.

I think the tablets are good for when there is no moving map navigator in the plane. Otherwise there is no advantage over what I already have.

What I found very useful is my Samsung S3 smartphone when flying outside the XM coverage. Below 6,000 feet works very well in the caribbean. It shows me the weather ahead. Tablets/ADS-B are useless outside the US because there is no ADS-B and they have no cell phone capability. If you fly in an area of limited or no ADS-B coverage try your smartphone. With the smartphone I have been able to text even at over 10,000ft. Best time to check for weather and TFRs is before engine start and that's were XM or a smartphone outshine tablets.

BTW read that some smartphone companies are working on cellphones that allows direct phone calls at 30,000ft directly with the cell phone network on the ground. This is going to be the next big feature.

José
 
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LDJones said:
Would like to hear some examples of this issue, as I haven't seen anything of the sort in 2.5 years and over 1,000 of flying with my iPad and ForeFlight. It has always jived perfectly with the 430/430W that's usually in the panel...both are always programmed the same.

When given a reroute in flight I'll usually put it into ForeFlight first (since it's quicker), turn to the new heading via FF, then add it to the 430. It's never failed me.

I'd hate to fly without it anymore.
Click to expand...

The one that really soured me on it was a lost signal that presented an old position as though it were current. Since I really was flying it as secondary nav, I had references on the ground that didn't agree, which saved me a Class B bust. The error grew to more than 20 miles. That's a long time to fly with no backup, so I rerouted direct to a VOR not far off my route.

I've also had inopportune crashes. A navigator that dumps when you need it isn't all that useful.

Hence my comment on backups. Every navigational item must be backed up, but if you can't believe one of them, it needs an additional backup. Then, the point is lost.
 
Were you using an external GPS? I assume you would be, but I'm curious.

Though I haven't been flying long, I have yet to lose a GPS signal whilst using the external reciever.

Foreflight shut down on me one time, and that's it. Fired the app right back up. But I agree on the crashing, it's really annoying when it does happen.

Good on you for still watching the ground. I take my sectional and keep track of where I'm at because if something like a loss of signal happens, it's good to know where you are.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Were you using an external GPS? I assume you would be, but I'm curious.
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I've done it both ways, and lost the signal both ways. The internal one loses it quite a lot more than the external, but neither is immune.

It's bluetooth, and that external one has an additional failure mode -- it can drain and disconnect with no warning unless you know to inspect the LEDs on the top. Not every aircraft has a 12V power port, and it's not necessarily good cockpit management to have two power cables draped over the instrument panel. It takes a few hours to drain, but that's not unusual for a cross country. That is a lost signal (though of a different sort) and the tablet treats it identically. Bluetooth also drains the tablet battery much faster than the internal GPS (though the tablet lasts longer than the external GPS if both are fully charged at the start).
 
Piloto said:
Best time to check for weather and TFRs is before engine start and that's were XM or a smartphone outshine tablets.
Click to expand...

I agree with the first half of that sentence, but there are plenty of tablets with cellular data capability, and that's one of the best reasons to spring for one.

BTW read that some smartphone companies are working on cellphones that allows direct phone calls at 30,000ft directly with the cell phone network on the ground. This is going to be the next big feature.
Click to expand...

Won't happen - No phone is capable of changing the carrier's network design. Either the carriers will have to change their networks to allow for airborne calls, or the airlines will need to add tech to the planes to create mini-cells aboard that can communicate with the ground via a separate network (IIRC, this is being done already) which will work with any phone.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I agree with the first half of that sentence, but there are plenty of tablets with cellular data capability, and that's one of the best reasons to spring for one.



Won't happen - No phone is capable of changing the carrier's network design. Either the carriers will have to change their networks to allow for airborne calls, or the airlines will need to add tech to the planes to create mini-cells aboard that can communicate with the ground via a separate network (IIRC, this is being done already) which will work with any phone.
Click to expand...

Cell phone networks don't care where the phone is. The reason for not connecting (log in) at altitude is due to the mutual interference that multiple cell towers create at the phone. This overwhelm the receiver and makes it difficult to log in. Improvements on receiver AGC dynamics and selectivity helps to cope with the problem. Unlike radio receivers used on the ground that have limited interference fom far away ground stations. Airborne radio receivers are more subject to multiple interference from multiple radio sources such as FM, TV high power stations and others due to the line of sight reduced signal attenuation. You can see this on an airborne spectrum analyzer. There are peaks everywhere.

When flying in the Caribbean or outside XM coverage I Velcro my cellphone to the yoke to check for weather. You can see a comparison between XM and the NWS website on the picture.

José
 

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I don't use a tablet because around the time I was thinking of buying one, I transitioned to a late-model cirrus (renting), and it uses Perspective (a G1000 with more features).
 
Piloto said:
Cell phone networks don't care where the phone is. The reason for not connecting (log in) at altitude is due to the mutual interference that multiple cell towers create at the phone.
Click to expand...

That's not all - The cell antennas are optimized to be very horizontal, and then tilted down toward the ground slightly. That helps to minimize interference with nearby sites using the same frequencies. Otherwise, ground pounders in flat states like Indiana could cause problems for the network too. ;)

It still works for us because we're pretty close to the ground. I pretty much always have signal when flying GA. But try again when you're at FL350 on a commercial flight, you likely won't have any signal at all... And again, this is due much more to the network design than the phone.

When flying in the Caribbean or outside XM coverage I Velcro my cellphone to the yoke to check for weather. You can see a comparison between XM and the NWS website on the picture.
Click to expand...

And again, you're down at the right angle that you're getting OK signal. Don't think that'll happen way up into the flight levels.
 
iPad mini and foreflight, keep it going as a backup to the g1000. And I have a Stratus in my bag as backup too.

Foreflight is 100% easier to use and more useful than the g1000, but I use the g1000 as my primary ifr navigation tool because it's tied back to the autopilot.
 
The tablet I used today. Stupid moving map wouldn't update for some reason. :D
 

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