Are you using a tablet?

0luke1 said:
iPad mini and foreflight, keep it going as a backup to the g1000. And I have a Stratus in my bag as backup too.

Foreflight is 100% easier to use and more useful than the g1000, but I use the g1000 as my primary ifr navigation tool because it's tied back to the autopilot.
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Hmmm.. I use a G1000 as my primary IFR navigation tool (when the aircraft is equipped with one) because it's a TSO's IFR GPS that has been installed and tested in accordance with FAA rules and procedures for units meant for primary IFR navigation. ForeFlight is my primary chart reader and, secondarily, a backup situational reference tool.
 
LDJones said:
Would like to hear some examples of this issue, as I haven't seen anything of the sort in 2.5 years and over 1,000 of flying with my iPad and ForeFlight. It has always jived perfectly with the 430/430W that's usually in the panel...both are always programmed the same.
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I will say I haven't seen any navigation issues but with a non-mainstream program I once used I had an interesting approach plate problem. It turns out the vendor was only using the procedure amendment number to determine if charts needed to be updated each cycle. This usually doesn't change with frequency changes, like to the ILS transmitter, the Julian date does change. So I had a totally wrong frequency on this supposedly up to date plate. This is why I tend to backup the automatic stuff with printed plates or at least up to date PDFs now.
 
Before you decide on a tablet I would look into the Aera 560 or 796. These units have a lot of nice features that you do not get with the tablets applications, like guidance, map decluttering, upright text on any heading and others. One of my favorites is the synthetic HSI mode that gives you vertical and horizontal guidance, even to runways with no approaches defined. Just set the HSI OBS to the runway heading and it will line you up like an ILS approach, very handy specially at night.

I have an Aera 560 on the yoke myself and I am very happy with it. All the info I need is right in front at the touch of the screen. It has work flawlessly with no issues. The GPS receiver is so good that it will give you a position fix inside the hangar with the built in antenna. But unlike tablets I do not see my nostrils on the 560 screen.

José
 
Foreflight (Tried WingX also FF just stuck), Ipad 1 and 3, in my lap or on the seat next too me, shopping for ADS-B now - really want the weather.
 
simie1 said:
Foreflight (Tried WingX also FF just stuck), Ipad 1 and 3, in my lap or on the seat next too me, shopping for ADS-B now - really want the weather.
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Not much shopping to do - ForeFlight only works with the Stratus products. It's REALLY nice to have traffic and weather in ForeFlight.
 
- Avilution AviationMaps or Naviator.

- 7" Android Tablet, because when I decided to use a tablet in the cockpit, the iPad was too big (there was no such thing as a Mini).

- Tablet is in a Ram holder flush with the panel on the far left.

- ADS-B is very important for XCs and not at all important for local flights. I bluetooth a Dual XGPS170 into AviationMaps or Naviator for weather, and Bluetooth my Zaon XRX into AviationMaps or Naviator for traffic.

I wrote to Adventure Pilot and asked that they consider adding Bluetooth to the next iteration (iFly 730?) of their dedicated GPS navigator, and utilize ADS-B from various receivers like my Dual. I would buy it or a comparable in a heartbeat over an iPad or Android tablet because of their poor visibility in bright light. I also believe the current fad of using "Sectional" moving maps on these tablets is not as useful in the cockpit as a simple terrain and airspace illustration that most dedicated aviation GPSs use.
 
JohnAJohnson said:
I also believe the current fad of using "Sectional" moving maps on these tablets is not as useful in the cockpit as a simple terrain and airspace illustration that most dedicated aviation GPSs use.
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I think that what is often misunderstood is the real purpose of using a tablet: It's not to replace a GPS, it's to replace paper charts. You can use ForeFlight without any GPS and it's still very useful. An aviation GPS without an antenna (or otherwise interrupted GPS signal) is pretty much useless except for looking up airport info.

The fact that a tablet can replicate many of the features of an aviation GPS is simply icing on the cake.

I usually fly with the iPad and iPhone and no paper charts. I have never flown with only aviation GPS and no paper charts. They're different tools for different reasons.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think that what is often misunderstood is the real purpose of using a tablet: It's not to replace a GPS, it's to replace paper charts. You can use ForeFlight without any GPS and it's still very useful. An aviation GPS without an antenna (or otherwise interrupted GPS signal) is pretty much useless except for looking up airport info.

The fact that a tablet can replicate many of the features of an aviation GPS is simply icing on the cake.

I usually fly with the iPad and iPhone and no paper charts. I have never flown with only aviation GPS and no paper charts. They're different tools for different reasons.
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I fly with an Ipad with Foreflight, back up paper charts, and no other GPS device. Works fine for me.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think that what is often misunderstood is the real purpose of using a tablet: It's not to replace a GPS, it's to replace paper charts. You can use ForeFlight without any GPS and it's still very useful. An aviation GPS without an antenna (or otherwise interrupted GPS signal) is pretty much useless except for looking up airport info.

The fact that a tablet can replicate many of the features of an aviation GPS is simply icing on the cake.

I usually fly with the iPad and iPhone and no paper charts. I have never flown with only aviation GPS and no paper charts. They're different tools for different reasons.
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Excellent post.
 
You are 100% right and that's a great point. I use my tablet to replace paper carts and as a bonus, it's a moving map. But I still navigate with either my 430 or my handheld dedicated GPS.

flyingcheesehead said:
I think that what is often misunderstood is the real purpose of using a tablet: It's not to replace a GPS, it's to replace paper charts. You can use ForeFlight without any GPS and it's still very useful. An aviation GPS without an antenna (or otherwise interrupted GPS signal) is pretty much useless except for looking up airport info.

The fact that a tablet can replicate many of the features of an aviation GPS is simply icing on the cake.

I usually fly with the iPad and iPhone and no paper charts. I have never flown with only aviation GPS and no paper charts. They're different tools for different reasons.
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flyingcheesehead said:
I think that what is often misunderstood is the real purpose of using a tablet: It's not to replace a GPS, it's to replace paper charts.
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If only that were true….I'm sure it is for you, and it makes sense.

But a lot of folks are clearly trying to use these to navigate, relying on "own ship" reference, faux CDIs and other tools. It's not illegal to use them as primary under VFR, but it really isn't a good idea. It's a really bad idea to use them exclusively.

Even as a chart reader, I still find it easier to read paper, particularly in bright daylight and for TACs. There are some conditions (e.g., night) where the tablet may be easier to read. For either case, one form can easily back up the other, and it makes sense to be in that zone.

I find it worrisome that some people seem to think display of the information is equivalent to correctness. Often they are. Sometimes, they aren't. Sometimes is much more often than it should be.

An enormous problem is nonuniformity. You'll see a lot of claims of "hey, it works for me," but the reality is that one tablet is not like another, and there are magic incantations (especially placement and/or an external GPS) that must be used to get them to work as designed. These are not issues for the user for a TSO'd GPS (they become installation issues).

I see the tablet mostly as a preflight tool -- and it's reasonably well suited for that, though there is a lot of room for improvement. In daytime conditions, I'll take it along as a backup on the off chance that the passenger pukes on the chart or drops it in the back seat and can't reach it (though neither of those has ever happened). At night, I may reverse that, but I consider the flashlight to be much more important, having had panel lighting blow up at night.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I fly with an Ipad with Foreflight, back up paper charts, and no other GPS device. Works fine for me.
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MAKG1 said:
But a lot of folks are clearly trying to use these to navigate, relying on "own ship" reference, faux CDIs and other tools. It's not illegal to use them as primary under VFR, but it really isn't a good idea. It's a really bad idea to use them exclusively.
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There's nothing wrong with using it for VFR navigation, provided you can still look out the window and your brain is still good enough to provide SA. But I don't think we should be looking at the tablets primarily as a GPS device - They're primarily an EFB that happens to have many of the functions of a GPS device.
 
nubbs01 said:
What app do you use and do you use that particular app
Are you using an Android or Apple tablet and why?
Curious how you are mounting the tablet.
How important is ADS-B weather and traffic for you?
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- ForeFlight Standard (I'm on the edge of upgrading to Pro, but can't quite justify it yet...)
- Apple iPad Mini non-retina with internal GPS and T-Mobile SIM card for 200MB/month of free data. After some research, it seems as though about 80% of the aviation community uses Apple, so I got it due to that reason. (Otherwise, I'm generally not a fan of Apple...)
- Set in on my leg or on the 'table' next to the yoke. If it's really knockin' our fillings out, or I'm doing multiple back-to-back practice approaches, then I have a basic $15 kneeboard mount to keep it from flying around.
- Not too important. Sure, it'd be nice to have, but not worth the money IMO, since I already have on-board WX radar and TCAS.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
There's nothing wrong with using it for VFR navigation, provided you can still look out the window and your brain is still good enough to provide SA. But I don't think we should be looking at the tablets primarily as a GPS device - They're primarily an EFB that happens to have many of the functions of a GPS device.
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I don't have a problem using it as a secondary device for IFR flight either. The situational awareness is great, and if the GPS goes out, so what, you're still tuned in to your VOR's and scanning your flight instruments. I didn't use a GPS for IFR flight anyway until I bought my first airplane.

But I wouldn't rely completely on one for EFB purposes either. I carry backup paper charts and plates just in case.

The two things it does lack compared with a panel mount aviation GPS is 1. A navigable approach database, which you can sort of fudge a little bit with georeferenced plates but not well, and 2. The ability to drive an autopilot.
 
Sac Arrow said:
The two things it does lack compared with a panel mount aviation GPS is 1. A navigable approach database, which you can sort of fudge a little bit with georeferenced plates but not well, and 2. The ability to drive an autopilot.
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Lots of folks flying around using their iFly to drive their autopilots.
 
Jim_R said:
Lots of folks flying around using their iFly to drive their autopilots.
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I'm unfamiliar with that, do you have a link? I'm not successfully Googling anything other than some flight simulator program.
 
I've dropped all my other subscriptions and switched to iFly. Great features, support, cross-platform, fair pricing, doesn't lock you into specific hardware.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
 
I just got a wifi only iPad. It was a gift. I was debating getting foreflight. I had planned on using it for approach plates and charts only. Don't really care about the moving map features etc. Is it viable for this use? Sorry to thread jack.
 
tree96 said:
I just got a wifi only iPad. It was a gift. I was debating getting foreflight. I had planned on using it for approach plates and charts only. Don't really care about the moving map features etc. Is it viable for this use? Sorry to thread jack.
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Sure hope so since that's what I've been using for the past 3 years. :yikes:
 
midlifeflyer said:
Sure hope so since that's what I've been using for the past 3 years. :yikes:
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Yea me too!! I never really thought about it because I could never bring myself to buy an ipad, especially one you would have to buy a data plan for. :no:
 
tree96 said:
Yea me too!! I never really thought about it because I could never bring myself to buy an ipad, especially one you would have to buy a data plan for. :no:
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Actually, I mis-spoke a bit. I did get an external GPS, so I do use the moving map features.

But yes, it is viable as a simple chart reader without the extra situational awareness the "own ship" position adds. I'm not sure I'd forego that benefit for the less than $100 costs of an external GPS, although I was happy to forego the 3G capability.
 
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MAKG1 said:
The one that really soured me on it was a lost signal that presented an old position as though it were current. Since I really was flying it as secondary nav, I had references on the ground that didn't agree, which saved me a Class B bust. The error grew to more than 20 miles. That's a long time to fly with no backup, so I rerouted direct to a VOR not far off my route.



I've also had inopportune crashes. A navigator that dumps when you need it isn't all that useful.



Hence my comment on backups. Every navigational item must be backed up, but if you can't believe one of them, it needs an additional backup. Then, the point is lost.
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Any navaid can fail. And portable devices are clearly noted not to be primary Nav devices.

Why would you be "soured" on something that was never intended nor designed to be your primary Nav?
 
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