are victor airways assignments common?

rbridges

rbridges

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I have a /G plane, and I've never been assigned a victor airway in my clearances, but I got two this weekend. They involved flying to/from Chattanooga. Are they more common in different regions?
 
Depends what area of the country you are in. In Florida it is quite common to be assigned victor airways in your clearance. Keeps you away from the busier class Bravos. Have also been given airways in Georgia.
 
frfly172 said:
Depends what area of the country you are in. In Florida it is quite common to be assigned victor airways in your clearance. Keeps you away from the busier class Bravos. Have also been given airways in Georgia.
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most of my flying is south of the Atlanta bravo, so maybe that is the reason.
 
Just got am amended routing through So Cal airspace that was like 6 different fixes...punched it in then briefed it and thought "why didn't he just give me V-XXX" which was that same route without playing connect the dots? Two days later got a similar routing that was a just a starting fix, a victor airway then an end fix that had a bunch of turns in it mid way. Much simpler.

Short answer...yes, for me at least they seem to be common out west even /G.
 
Pretty much never happens in the midwest unless a radar is out or you're near Chicago.

I file direct, always, I don't care where I'm going. Almost always cleared direct by clearance delivery and if I'm going into an area that is busy (class B, etc) the clearance usually gets amended when I get close and may include a victor airway. Not a big deal really. I've noticed lately that I normally just get switched to radar vectors and don't have to reprogram a thing.
 
jesse said:
Pretty much never happens in the midwest unless a radar is out or you're near Chicago.
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IIRC the rules say that if they cannot see you on radar, you must be on airways. Controllers here can confirm.

I recall one time I was filed direct /G and wanted to stay low due to very high headwinds. Center was very nice about it, but eventually came on the radio and said "N12345, bad news. KXXX won't take you on your direct route. I have a revised clearance for you, advise when ready to copy." And popped me onto an airways routing.
 
airdale said:
IIRC the rules say that if they cannot see you on radar, you must be on airways. Controllers here can confirm.

I recall one time I was filed direct /G and wanted to stay low due to very high headwinds. Center was very nice about it, but eventually came on the radio and said "N12345, bad news. KXXX won't take you on your direct route. I have a revised clearance for you, advise when ready to copy." And popped me onto an airways routing.
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Hmmm..

Out west, you can be on an airway and still not on radar because of the mountains... :confused::confused:
 
airdale said:
IIRC the rules say that if they cannot see you on radar, you must be on airways. Controllers here can confirm.

I recall one time I was filed direct /G and wanted to stay low due to very high headwinds. Center was very nice about it, but eventually came on the radio and said "N12345, bad news. KXXX won't take you on your direct route. I have a revised clearance for you, advise when ready to copy." And popped me onto an airways routing.
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GPS direct routing without radar coverage is something that I probably do three or four times a year. It's incredibly rare that ATC changes my direct clearance, seems like they don't care about that part of the rules, they just usually tell me to contact them again in 40 miles or whatever it may be.

I'd say 90% of the time they leave me on my direct clearance and 10% of the time they amend it because of the lack of radar coverage.

I had a flight earlier this year where they told me they would lose radar coverage and communication. I was on a direct IFR clearance. Told me to contact them on X frequency in X miles.

That said I rarely fly in busy airspace. In the above case I was in the middle of nowhere at like 3:30 am.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm..

Out west, you can be on an airway and still not on radar because of the mountains... :confused::confused:
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Hopefully a controller will pop in here, but I think the idea is that on-airway and reporting as required, they know where you are to some degree of accuracy --- which they do not when you are out wandering around on your own.
 
Almost standard in the Northeast. Usually west of Ohio I can get direct routing pretty regularly. A few big reasons I could see getting assigned one after filing direct is for traffic congestion, restricted airspace along a route, or transiting busy airspace.
Kinda nice to be climbing out of Vegas and hearing, "Cleared direct Harrisburg"
 
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Gucci Pilot said:
Almost standard in the Northeast. Usually west of Ohio I can get direct routing pretty regularly. A few big reasons I could see getting assigned one after filing direct is for traffic congestion, restricted airspace along a route, or transiting busy airspace.
Kinda nice to be climbing out of Vegas and hearing, "Cleared direct Harrisburg"
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Yep. Here in NY, the day I hear, "Cleared direct to destination" is the day the world will end. If you're out in the boonies it's probably more common.
 
rbridges said:
I have a /G plane, and I've never been assigned a victor airway in my clearances, but I got two this weekend. They involved flying to/from Chattanooga. Are they more common in different regions?
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Yep :wink2:
 
Direct isn't an option at the current shop, so Victor Airways it is for us (we're /A). At a previous corporate gig I had, I always filed direct in and around Texas and I was only ever re-routed once going into The DFW area (understandable), but typically stuck to the airways in NM and AZ since our normally aspirated 182 could rarely make the off route altitudes (to put that into perspective, there are many areas out there where ATC's MVA was higher than the airways MEA, which could make stuff like weather deviations problematic) around there and the boss disliked wearing O2 masks.
 
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thanks for the input. I've seen people mention that the garmin 430 doesn't allow victor airways, and I always thought "so what, I never get those."
 
jordane93 said:
Yep. Here in NY, the day I hear, "Cleared direct to destination" is the day the world will end. If you're out in the boonies it's probably more common.
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Come on over to VT then. I get direct routing all the time, even between MPV and the Boston area (ASH, specifically). I am frequently vectored around for traffic, but my cleared routing is very seldom anything other than direct - so far.

Now south of the MA border things may be different. Yesterday en route to BID I was cleared direct at first, then somewhere over MA I was given a revised routing that was VOR-to-VOR. On the way back they lost my flight plan but let me air file and once again, gave me a couple of VORs before direct.

The only time they've tried to give me airways out here was over the Adirondacks east of RME, and I opted to just go high enough that they could see me. Not that I don't mind airways (the 480 makes entering them easy), but the routing would have been a bit out of my way.
 
My only Victor airway was in Florida, from above Daytona to south of Canaveral.

I routinely file direct, even going past Atlanta, and am cleared as filed. Then I will get rerouted, usually slightly west, to miss the Bravo.
 
airdale said:
Hopefully a controller will pop in here, but I think the idea is that on-airway and reporting as required, they know where you are to some degree of accuracy --- which they do not when you are out wandering around on your own.
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Out here in the middle of Wyoming, when radar looses me, most times center can't hear on the radio either... But I see your point...:yes:
 
I get a hodgepodge of airways and direct (but not to destination) routings in the NE. Out of OWD (suburban Boston) you get a successsion of non-airway fixes, then an airway, then a VOR radial which is not an airway, then an airway, then direct to an airport (not the destination, not the VOR on the field, the airport) then direct destination.

As others note, over the midwest, you usually get whatever you filed unless you get near Chicago and then you sent to KELSI.

I was flying along in North Carolina one day when they told me Seymour Johnson's radar was out and they had to put me on an airway. Not only that but they were prompting for position reports from most people, but I just gave them the text book ones. The 480 airway expansion gives ETA to all the intersections so it was too easy.
 
rbridges said:
I have a /G plane, and I've never been assigned a victor airway in my clearances, but I got two this weekend. They involved flying to/from Chattanooga. Are they more common in different regions?
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Interesting, what route did they give you? FWIW, from your location I would have filed PXE HEFIN CHA although the PXE HEFIN leg gets very close to the border of the bravo. I just might have tried PXE PIZZO HEFIN CHA, they would probably let you have that one.

Being on the north side of the bravo, I usually file direct HEFIN or AHN depending on which way I want to go south around ATL. Anything closer that those usually results in amended routes.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Interesting, what route did they give you? FWIW, from your location I would have filed PXE HEFIN CHA although the PXE HEFIN leg gets very close to the border of the bravo. I just might have tried PXE PIZZO HEFIN CHA, they would probably let you have that one.

Being on the north side of the bravo, I usually file direct HEFIN or AHN depending on which way I want to go south around ATL. Anything closer that those usually results in amended routes.
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I stopped in Marrietta to see my daughter, so I thought I'd get direct CHA from RYY, but they gave me radar vector to V97 NELLO V5. On the way home, I thought I could shoot direct towards Athens then to Perry, but they gave me V333 RMG V154.

On the way to chattanooga, I was vectored pretty much the whole time. On the way home, I was vectored to RMG but flew a good bit on V154.
 
rbridges said:
I stopped in Marrietta to see my daughter, so I thought I'd get direct CHA from RYY, but they gave me radar vector to V97 NELLO V5. On the way home, I thought I could shoot direct towards Athens then to Perry, but they gave me V333 RMG V154.

On the way to chattanooga, I was vectored pretty much the whole time. On the way home, I was vectored to RMG but flew a good bit on V154.
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The way back was clearly to keep you out of the bravo airspace. Not sure about the way there. Maybe CHA just wanted everyone coming from one direction and the approach controller was new :D
 
When crossing over lake Michigan filed /G, I have received amended clearances ( mid flight) a few times and put on a Victor airway. When asked the awnswer was "for Traffic" :dunno:
 
rbridges said:
thanks for the input. I've seen people mention that the garmin 430 doesn't allow victor airways, and I always thought "so what, I never get those."
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It sucks that you cant enter them directly, but you know how to enter the a fix, vor, intersection, etc at each end of your V airway? My CFII showed me that as a way to enter airways into your flight plan. Especially if you are direct and get amended in flight. Now it doesn't worry me if they give me airways for a during a clearance. Just takes a little longer to find the correct fixes to add to the FPL.


Dan
 
ChemGuy said:
It sucks that you cant enter them directly, but you know how to enter the a fix, vor, intersection, etc at each end of your V airway? My CFII showed me that as a way to enter airways into your flight plan. Especially if you are direct and get amended in flight. Now it doesn't worry me if they give me airways for a during a clearance. Just takes a little longer to find the correct fixes to add to the FPL.


Dan
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that's what I ended up doing. Just caught me off guard the first time.
 
Get them all the time traversing the Wash DC, Phillie and NYC axis. When GPSing your way thru you have to be ready for the occasional "Coyle 8 DME 240 degree radial". Foreflight practice required there.
jordane93 said:
Yep. Here in NY, the day I hear, "Cleared direct to destination" is the day the world will end.
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The only way to get direct is to cancel - sometimes you may even be rewarded with "Proceed direct destination, cleared for the Class B"
rbridges said:
thanks for the input. I've seen people mention that the garmin 430 doesn't allow victor airways, and I always thought "so what, I never get those."
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My setup is driven by a 430W but my flight ritual is to input it into Foreflight, Have it generate the Victor airway routing (with only the necessary waypoints) then input the result into the 430.

I don't always keep the Foreflight up to date once the flight starts but if I get one of those "8 DME" radial clearances, that goes into Foreflight and I fly the iPad for that segment.
 
rbridges said:
thanks for the input. I've seen people mention that the garmin 430 doesn't allow victor airways, and I always thought "so what, I never get those."
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It's not that you are not "allowed" to enter them, just that you need to enter all the important fixes along the way manually (especially where the airway bends), instead of just an airway entry and exit point.

It's one of the other ways an EFB helps the situation. Fore example FF accept airways with the option of only showing bends, making the manual entry into a 430/530 a little easier.
 
If you have a decent GPS, you key in the airway and then the exit from the airway and all the intermediate fixes are in your plan implicitly.

Of course if you have a 430/530 you're going to end up like the guy with accurate instruments who goes direct to the end of the airway rather than following it.
 
flyingron said:
If you have a decent GPS, you key in the airway and then the exit from the airway and all the intermediate fixes are in your plan implicitly.

Of course if you have a 430/530 you're going to end up like the guy with accurate instruments who goes direct to the end of the airway rather than following it.
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Okay, I'm glad I have a 480 too... but let's face it, today MOST small aircraft that have installed GPSs have either a 430 or a 530, or the W versions of same. Which units other than the 480 even have airways? Does the 750? The 1000? I'm really not sure, but both are still beyond the price range of most small airplane owners anyway. If my 480 hadn't come with the airplane, I sure wouldn't go out and buy the latest and greatest Garmin, and certainly not just for airways.
 
My cross state flights are always filed using V airways. Only one of the 4 planes in the club is /G and the difference between V and direct isn't all that much. This is not to say that ATC hasn't amended my clearances on occasion. Really nice when about YKM they give me vectors (which amount to "direct") across the state. Routed me over a part of the state we hadn't overflown before. I had another where I filed direct to an intersection in a V airway and was given direct to the VOR defining the start of that leg. I think there was maybe a 1 degree difference between what I asked for and what I got. Big whoop. And that was in the /G plane. So, yes, I did get a V airway assignment once.
 
rbridges said:
I have a /G plane, and I've never been assigned a victor airway in my clearances, but I got two this weekend. They involved flying to/from Chattanooga. Are they more common in different regions?
Click to expand...

Flying into Socal I have pretty much always been handed a V - airways clearance , normally over Lake Arrowhead with no time to program all the corner points in a 430/530 series radio.
 
azure said:
Okay, I'm glad I have a 480 too... but let's face it, today MOST small aircraft that have installed GPSs have either a 430 or a 530, or the W versions of same. Which units other than the 480 even have airways? Does the 750? The 1000? I'm really not sure, but both are still beyond the price range of most small airplane owners anyway. If my 480 hadn't come with the airplane, I sure wouldn't go out and buy the latest and greatest Garmin, and certainly not just for airways.
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The 650 and 750 support direct entry of airways.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Yeah, I'm pretty much amazed with what the 650/750 series does and how it does it.
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Yeah, they have almost caught up with were Foreflight was 2 years ago, for an ifr gps that is saying something....
 
azure said:
Okay, I'm glad I have a 480 too... but let's face it, today MOST small aircraft that have installed GPSs have either a 430 or a 530, or the W versions of same. Which units other than the 480 even have airways? Does the 750? The 1000? I'm really not sure, but both are still beyond the price range of most small airplane owners anyway. If my 480 hadn't come with the airplane, I sure wouldn't go out and buy the latest and greatest Garmin, and certainly not just for airways.
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Most G1000's have airways.
 
ChemGuy said:
It sucks that you cant enter them directly, but you know how to enter the a fix, vor, intersection, etc at each end of your V airway? My CFII showed me that as a way to enter airways into your flight plan. Especially if you are direct and get amended in flight. Now it doesn't worry me if they give me airways for a during a clearance. Just takes a little longer to find the correct fixes to add to the FPL.


Dan
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Wouldn't it be easier to just fly the Victor airway the way it was designed to be flown........ with the VOR?
 
midlifeflyer said:
The 650 and 750 support direct entry of airways.
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Okay, that's good to know. But the 650 is something like $10k and the 750 more like $15k, and that's just for the unit itself before installation.

The best way to get one is to buy a plane that already has one installed, like my flying club back home did. In a few years these newer GPSs will be a lot more commonplace than today, I'm sure. For now though, I suspect most owners of /G aircraft can only dream about replacing their trusty 430 or 430W.
 
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