AP question

WannFly

Final Approach
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The plane I am renting had an AP that can hold altitude, while using it I realized it doesn't do anything with rudder. For my own knowledge... Why? Is it because some other high priced one does and this does not? Or some other reason? Or is it no AP will control the rudder?



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Sorry I shud have worded it differently, I know some AP can hold altitude, some don't, that has nothing to do with the question I have. Lol... guess my question is, why does AP not care about the rudder?

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Most small aircraft autopilots are not 3 axis autopilots. A single axis would control roll or pitch. A 2 axis would control roll and pitch. To control yaw is unnecessary in most small aircraft.
The autopilot consists of a control head in the panel and a servo connected to the pushrod going to the elevator or the aileron.
 
According to googliation:
A one axis autopilot controls roll (heading) A two axis autopilot controls roll (heading) and pitch (altitude) A three axis autopilot control roll (heading), pitch (altitude), and yaw (coordination). With a one or two axis autopilot, you have to help coordination with your feet.Nov 3, 2009
 
Hmm..so it's more of a feature thing, if u pay more u get one with 3 axis...

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Hmm..so it's more of a feature thing, if u pay more u get one with 3 axis...

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In a way, yes. Three Axis Autopilots (aka Yaw Dampers) are typically found on large singles and twins where there is a lot of torque. It reduces the Dutch Roll tendency of larger aircraft and provides a smoother ride. There are also some air frames that require the Yaw Damper be engaged during certain flight phases.

The single axis auto pilot is also known as a "wing leveler" auto pilot and uses the roll servo to keep the wings level. The two axis autopilot adds pitch control to hold the aircraft altitude. A 2 axis auto pilot may also have a pitch trim servo that "tweaks" the elevator for minor altitude excursions.

An aircraft with a 2 axis autopilot may have manual rudder trim. It works much like the pitch trim, but in the yaw axis. Typically, the rudder trim is used on climb out to keep the aircraft coordinated (ball centered) during the climb and to reduce pilot workload. After arriving at the cruise phase, the rudder trim is readjusted for straight and level flight.

My approach with the two axis system I fly is to use the rudder to assist the autopilot during extended turns to keep the plane coordinated. Otherwise, I will just let the roll servo control the level flight and minor heading excursions.

You will also run across two types of auto pilots, attitude based and rate based. The attitude based AP is driven by the Attitude Indicator and the rate based AP is driven by the Turn Coordinator.
 
I've never seen a 3 axis autopilot in a light piston single. They add weight and complexity, and really don't seem to be needed much.
 
The Cirrus has an option for a yaw damper which adds that capability if you will. However yaw damper options are generally expensive and heavy and due to the shorter length of most piston twins and singles it's generally not found or necessary due to its weight and cost

However important to note it's generally not the autopilot controlling the yaw damper. The yaw damper can generally be engaged in most airplanes (that have a yaw damper) without the autopilot being engaged. Thus you can still control roll and pitch but the rudder is taken care of automatically by the yaw damper. In some larger aircraft its standard practice and procedure for the yaw damper to be engaged 100% of the time. In these the only time you'd use the rudder is during takeoff/landing/engine out procedures as it can be overrun by rudder pedal movement
 
A wing leveler is a simple single axis (one without nav or heading tracking). It's not synonymous with single-axis.

Anyhow, the reason why the AP in this plane doesn't deal with the rudder is the same reason that by and large the pilot doesn't need to deal with the rudder. Except in certain boundary flight regimes (when you'd not be using the autopilot anyhow) the rudders aren't used.
 
Think about how you fly without an autopilot first. You establish a pitch attitude and power setting for the desired climb, cruise, or descent and then use elevator trim to eliminate your need to hold pressure (back or forward) on the elevator. You use the ailerons to steer the airplane, either to keep it straight or to turn as desired. And you use the rudder to coordinate your use of ailerons and counteract the various left-turning tendencies (and to a much smaller degree the occasional right-turning tendency). All airplanes (until someone shows me an exception) have elevator trim. Many small airplanes have some form of rudder trim so you at least do not have to maintain rudder pressure in straight and level cruise flight, although the rudder trim can be as simple as an adjustable spring. Many small airplanes have an aileron trim tab that can be adjusted on the ground and some probably have some form of aileron trim adjustable in flight, which in either case has the purpose of letting you use minimum aileron input during straight and level cruise flight.

So your actual flying consists of setting the airplane up with power and elevator trim to climb, descend, or cruise at a desired altitude and speed without you having to touch the elevator, using the rudder trim so at least in straight and level cruise flight you do not have to touch the rudder pedals to keep the ball centered, and using the ailerons to keep the plane on course. Now think about how to reduce your workload as a pilot with a minimum of automation.

Of the three controls, ailerons require the most pilot work because the plane has much less stability in the roll axis than in pitch and it's more sensitive to small excursions in steering than in altitude. (Go 10 feet high and you barely care. Go 10 degrees left of course and you'll end up at the wrong destination.) They get the first axis of autopilot control as a result. (As a bonus, an aileron-axis autopilot needs fewer data inputs than an elevator-axis autopilot does, so it is less expensive to make and install.) And for many pilots, that's enough, because in a small plane the elevator trim and rudder trim make it easy to get the plane flying level and coordinated at cruise without the pilot having to touch the controls. A single-axis autopilot can be as simple as a wing leveler or as complex as a GPS-driven flight management system that flies your entire route for you.

Elevator is the second axis to get automated because, be honest, do you really want to constantly make tiny trim adjustments or tiny elevator inputs just to deal with 10-foot excursions from your desired altitude or small deviations from your desired climb or descent airspeed? And most two-axis autopilots I've seen either tell you to trim up or down so they don't have to work as hard (just as you would do if you were doing the flying) or engage electric trim to get rid of control forces on their own. They basically fly the airplane the same as you do and can vary from simple altitude hold to complicated systems that let you pre-select an altitude and then have the autopilot control pitch (and, on big enough planes, power) to maintain a vertical speed, an airspeed, or other parameter for the desired climb profile, possibly even making in-flight altitude changes according to your flight plan if they are fancy enough.

Rudder is the last axis to be automated, because in cruise flight it hardly enters in to the equation unless you're making significant turns, and most simple autopilots don't like to make significant turns anyhow. In small planes, you as a pilot should coordinate every little aileron input with proper rudder input, but in reality the plane will not enter a cross-control spin just because you didn't coordinate a half-standard-rate turn, so the autopilot can also get away with that kind of lazy flying and nobody really complains. And when the rudder does enter into the equation, you use it to keep the ball centered, so that's what a yaw damper does. Whether in an extended high-power high-AOA climb, a Dutch roll, or a steep turn, the yaw damper applies rudder pressure to center the ball for you (or for the rest of the autopilot system). And that's an independent action from what the rest of the pilot or autopilot is doing, so it ends up being a separate system as others have described above.
 
Thanks all. that helps a lot in understanding the mechanics and the reasoning. I am also looking for a aircraft purchase, so this helps me eliminate / add stuff in the AP department
 
You need to know how to turn the autopilot off. Some of them release the trim all at once or do other funky things that can surprise you.

They follow the GPS too, usually by following the GPS "head" (like a VOR head) that the IFR/GPS runs. You usually want to set the sensitivity to most sensitive somewhere deep in those GPS buttons and menus. Have fun finding that. Suggst you look in the manual. For that matter you should read the manual front to back, even if you dont understand it all at firs (Most dont first read through).
 
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You need to know how to turn the autopilot off. Some of them release the trim all at once or do other funky things that can surprise you.
If there is trim. Most light planes don't have roll trim and rarely does the autopilot use it if it does. I couldn't figure out why my autopilot was making S-turns across the course one day, so I hit the red button. It immediately rolled left. I had inadvertently run one tip tank nearly dry while leaving the other full. My autopilot has no fewer than four ways to disable it: big red button, switch, circuit breaker, trim switch.

They follow the GPS too, usually be following the GPS "head" (like a VOR head) that the IFR/GPS runs. You usually want to set the sensitivity to most sensitive somewhere deep in those GPS buttons and menus. Have fun finding that. Suggst you look in the manual. For that matter you should read the manual front to back, even if you dont understand it all at firs (Most dont first read through).
I've never had to adjust this. In the case of a roll stearing autopilot, it just takes position cues from the GPS. If it's tracking the CDI, it wants to rely on the GPS's switching of sensitity depending on where in the approach you are.
 
I've never seen a 3 axis autopilot in a light piston single. They add weight and complexity, and really don't seem to be needed much.

Debatable, I'm putting a yaw damper in my RV-10... do I need it? Nope but for an extra $1500 why not. Actually putting a lot of stuff I don't 'need' in the plane.

I've also flown an SR22 and an A36 with one. The A36 was a 90s model.


I am also installing roll trim as well... Through the GSA 28 servos there is an auto trim feature so that will prevent any abrupt attitude changes on AP disconnect.

Certified planes are really behind on what's capable in a small plane.
 
There are some singles that are prone to tail wagging. These aircraft, such as Mooneys, are more likely to have them than something nice and stable.
 
Yaw damper on the 22 is a great thing as well as the aileron trim. Really makes thing comfortable in the back.
 
Since you mentioned you're shopping and nobody's mentioned it...

A GOOD single engine AP can run well north of $10,000 new, even $20,000.

When buying older aircraft you'll often be seeing terrible APs. They didn't fly the aircraft well the day they were brand new, and many haven't been maintained either due to neglect or often, because parts and expertise are difficult to come by.

All depends on the A/P model.

If you're buying, you have to fly it and test the A/P in all modes yourself before counting it as any sort of "positive" on the feature list.

Ours was nearly useless from the factory in 1975 and does an excellent job of flying "S-turns about a course" today. :)

Newer is generally better. And some are nearly impossible to find good support for them. Buyer beware.
 
That's a great point @denverpilot. I am looking at planes loosely, spoke to my chief flight instructor today, he mentioned there are usually lot of fly ins around may here and recommends to wait. Which I will and that also gives me enough time to break a nose wheel of the rental. Saw one at their hanger today, 172, don't know which year, but pretty old, with a AP that's wing leveler only. Garmin 300 xl I think as nav/com and no GPS. He has flown in that for about 50 hrs and mentioned it flies pretty great. There is a adsb out, the company was leasing that plane to get their product certified. Owner has 3 planes and plans to sell this one, I will talk to him to see what price point he is thinking just to get an idea, but I will wait till spring to decide on something... unless someone is selling a cirrus 22 for 50k

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For the amount of power most GA planes make, a yaw damper doesn't make a huge amount of sense.
 
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