Anyone have an employee agreement for flying yourself?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by chartbundle, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. chartbundle

    chartbundle Pattern Altitude

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    Just curious if any of you have an agreement with your employer to allow you to fly yourself on company business in a plane you provide(rent or own) and can share the agreement. I'm negotiating with my employer right now to get it approved so I can fly to customer sites when it makes sense.

    I've offered to list them as an Additional insured on my policy but I'm wondering what the other "standard" things would be.
     
  2. Caramon13

    Caramon13 Pattern Altitude

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    If you get something worked out, I'd love to see it. I've been trying to get my employer to let me fly myself to company trips for a while now.

    Most of the locations I go to are small towns and they take more than an hour to drive to from the closest major airport, but they do have a local GA airport sometimes within 5-10 mins of where I need to be...

    Tried to explain it in financial terms and how it would save them money but..no go..
     
  3. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    I suppose if you paid the bill you wouldn't need this? How would they even know unless you tried to expense it?
     
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  4. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    Is placing your employer as an additional insured standard? I have never heard of anyone doing that when reimbursed mileage for use of their car for company business.
     
  5. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    well....ya never know when one might want to sue one's self. If it helps, that's great. Just say'n. :D
     
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  6. Caramon13

    Caramon13 Pattern Altitude

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    My company uses a travel agency to book corporate travel. It all has to go through them. Airfare, hotel, car, etc...

    The airfare expense even though I use a card is direct billed, so it doesn't even show up on my statement or the credit card. If they saw charges that were attributed to "airfare", they'd know.

    Also, most often I travel with other people..so there's that.
     
  7. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    My employer allows me to fly for work. Heck, my boss flies himself for work too. Can't help you with the agreement as I think our travel policy is set by OPM.
     
  8. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not all boss' are a generous as yours....:(
     
  9. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Depends which boss you're referring to. My boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss's boss would like us all fired or outsourced.
     
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  10. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    well....there is that too. :D
     
  11. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I thought we decided in years past that this was best handled by 'don't ask don't tell'. Any involvement with the employer and their insurers multiplies the chance of a 'no, never' answer.
     
  12. Bill

    Bill Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    My employer is cool with it, he pays me what the coach class airline ticket would cost. Sometimes I make a little money, most of the time it costs me a little money.
     
  13. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Fat chance... liability, you know...
     
  14. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I have an agreement with myself saying I won't sue myself if I injure myself in an accident.... but I am not sure it would hold up in court...
     
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  15. Checkout_my_Six

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    good plan.....:D
     
  16. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Carrying someone else makes it sticky from FAA view as well, if your compensated for the flight, doesn't it?
     
  17. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    My WC insurance co had a canary when they found out I had an airplane and I was not even carrying coworkers/employees anywhere! Dropped me like a hot potato despite my protestations. This, from an employer-with-an-airplane standpoint. They found out about it as an aside (don't recall how but I didn't tell them).
     
  18. jheyen

    jheyen Pre-Flight PoA Supporter

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    I'm working through this process right now. Actually have been for over a year. Our traditional insurance company doesn't want to bother with GA and just says no. They actually said it's better if the company just bought a plane and hired pilots. Of course their insurance premium goes way up too.

    I've spoken with other providers that can provide a nominal amount ($2 M) liability for the company for not much. Our general insurance provider says we need $20M. Insane.

    So at this point I have a nice flight policy written up but the process is on hold. I have a gentlemen's understanding with the president and right now our HR manual is silent on private aircraft, so I'd rather keep it that way rather than have it say no.
     
  19. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route PoA Supporter

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    This.

    Barring any insurance prohibitions, if even asked the question should always be "Is there anything preventing me from..." vs. "Am I allowed to...."

    No decent sized company or insurance firm in their right mind in this day and age are gonna explicitly allow it.

    My company allows it...but I am also the boss...and the only one that flies!
     
  20. RudyP

    RudyP Cleared for Takeoff

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    That's my situation as well. I do it, our CEO knows I do it but I pay for it and no one talks about it too much. I'm perfectly happy with the arrangement.
     
  21. bradg33

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    It's nothing more than an insurance issue. You're going to need someone on the company end who is willing to run the traps with the insurance broker/underwriter to get it covered. It can be done, but most companies just don't want bother with the effort to get insurance coverage just so one or two employees can fly themselves. The "gentlemen's agreement" or just outright keeping it under the radar is probably the "best" option for most people.
     
  22. txflyer

    txflyer En-Route

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    Fly it like you STOL it ♦
    Everything I've read points to if the company takes the stance it's a no go and they don't like it, it's impossible.

    Corporate goes by the mantra "if we let one do it, we must let all do it." So if you're getting pushed back on, they've made their decision.

    Glad to see some people are getting to do it and their company doesn't mind.
     
  23. Sac Arrow

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    Bro do you even lift
    I don't have an "agreement" per se, but I wrote a letter memorandum of understanding that I would use the airplane for business travel and charge an hourly rate for reimbursement, primarily to establish a business usage of the airplane.
     
  24. chartbundle

    chartbundle Pattern Altitude

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    So far what I'm taking away from this is that the US Government has no problems with it and basically treats it like a personally owned car. And the corporate world runs away screaming.
     
  25. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Sort of. Being an owner of the corporate environment helps a lot but yes, many major corporate entities consider GA business flight to be a liability, regardless of the legal protections put in place.
     
  26. bradg33

    bradg33 Pattern Altitude

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    The government is less susceptible to lawsuits than corporations are. Litigating against the government is expensive and time-consuming, much more so than against a private company.
     
  27. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    Of course if you drove a motorcycle they'd have no issue.
     
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  28. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    A friend is in a small business, it's an LLC. There was a fatal crash, one of the principals was the pilot, two vendor pax. You would not believe how far-reaching the vendors' wives' lawsuit is in terms of who is named.
    Other than the part time janitor and the company mascot, everyone who had been within 100 miles of the place in the preceding 5 years, or any other association with the flight, the strip, the business has been considered as a defendant, if not named, in the suit.
    I can see why corps are jumpy.
     
  29. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The gummint does get sued....and in most cases settles out of court. I have a good friend who benefited from such an ATC suit and now owns a nice 185, and I suspect paid for by uncle sam. :D
     
  30. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Corporations and their insurance policies are good targets for the ambul ^H^H^H^H^H lawyers...
     
  31. OkieFlyer

    OkieFlyer En-Route

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    I tried to get my company's blessing to fly recently. I'm a natural gas plant operator and the company was needing me to go help out a couple of our other plants that were 1.5 and 3 hours away by car. They were willing to pay overtime for the drive to and from these plants, which is a substantial amount of money in the long run, and a crap load of time on the road for me, which I wasn't looking forward to for any amount of money. I told them they can keep the overtime money and just let me fly. They laughed. I told them I'd do it on my dime. They said you better not. I threatened to do it anyway, and it's none of their business how I arrive, as long as I'm not on the clock. They decided they didn't need me to go help out at the other plants anymore.

    These douche bags won't even let us ride motorcycles to a company event of any kind.
     
  32. TRocket

    TRocket Line Up and Wait

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    I fly myself for work occasionally, my employer does not care as long as I am there when I need to be, but they aren't paying for any of it of course!
     
  33. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Our company AD&D insurance is what keeps me from flying to our remote facilities. There's a stipulation about it needing to be a "scheduled airline". I could just claim that I drove my personal vehicle and get reimbursed the 54.5 cents per mile, but it'd still leave me with renting a car for the last 10 miles, which looks fishy when you're claiming mileage.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  34. Ghery

    Ghery Touchdown! Greaser!

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    When I worked for Intel the only GA planes we were allowed to ride in on company business were listed by tail number. The company shuttles. The use of any other GA plane was prohibited. My current company doesn't have any written policy on the subject (or any other subject, for that matter), so no problem. If there were any question about it I'd just ask the President. Oh, yeah, I'm the President. :D
     
  35. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    That's because statistically, whether or not you want to believe it, private flying is a higher risk than driving... And ten fold over an airliner.
     
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  36. NoHeat

    NoHeat En-Route

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    One terrific thing about the federal govt. POV. Personally owned vehicle. Three kinds, all good for travel reimbursement: car, motorcycle, private plane. I learned this when an agency reimbursed me for my travel to DC. I studied the rules and discovered I could fly my plane. Reimbursement was limited to the price of a govt rate airline ticket, but it was enough to pay for my gas, and that was awesome! If it weren't so far, I'd have done it by motorcycle and enjoyed the winding roads of West Virginia, but flying my small plane was fun, too.

    Don't worry. When he's busy tweeting about how women look and such things, his attention is not turned to you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  37. Rushie

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    Well let's see of the four companies Mark worked for:

    1. Utility company: Allowed it when the head of the legal department was himself a pilot and flew a "little plane" around. When he retired, they changed the policy and no longer allowed it.

    2. Small private company: Allowed it, when Mark could show it saved the company money. There were jobs located near GA airports, someone could pick him up and take him to the jobsite. It was cheaper than paying for a commercial ticket and rental car from the big airport plus hotel because he couldn't do the commercial travel there and back in one day but could when he flew his own plane, plus the parking lot cost for him to drive two hours to the big airport on the home end as opposed to five minutes to his own plane and free parking at the home GA airport. It really works for those jobs in the "doughnut" sweet spot, when your jobsites (and home) are stuck out in the boonies away from city airports.

    3. Small private company was bought out by a big company: Did not allow it. Maybe the inattention to cost was one reason they destroyed the good thing they had acquired

    4. Another big private company: Did allow it, again when it was a cost savings.

    None of them asked to be named additional insured or anything.
     
  38. ETres

    ETres Line Up and Wait

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    The company I worked for 10-15 years ago made one of its division presidents quit flying his own plane (a turbo 182) for business. I guess they deemed him too important to lose. As for me, I never asked - I just did it, flew about 8-10 business trips, even expensed my fuel, but no one ever said a word. Bottom line: I was expendable. :D
     
  39. rtk11

    rtk11 Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    The company I work for has explicit exclusion to flight in personal/private aircraft for business purposes. I was shocked to see it, but it's there in black and white.