Another pilot flying my son

ChiefPilot said:
So question for the larger group - how do you assess the abilities of a potentially low-time pilot to fly a family member around in a Cessna 172?

,.. Anyone have any thoughts to share?
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Let’s ask the question differently. How do I assess your ability to fly a Cessna 172 safely with me as a passenger?
 
James331 said:
I wouldn't even be worried about that.

Chances are poor breeding, diet, or failure to pass on good common sense and life lessons are far more likely to lead to your offsprings demise.
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Poor breeding?! WTF James! :eek:
You made me spit out my PBR when I read that shet. :rofl:
 
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TCABM said:
Let’s ask the question differently. How do I assess your ability to fly a Cessna 172 safely with me as a passenger?
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I don't know, how do you? If I knew, I probably wouldn't have asked my question in the first place...
 
ChiefPilot said:
I don't know, how do you? If I knew, I probably wouldn't have asked my question in the first place...
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So, you are telling me that you, with all your qualifications and experience, should not be trusted to fly passengers?
 
James331 said:
I wouldn't let them fly with my kid, unless he REALLY wanted to go up, not for "safety" but because I find the CAP highly annoying.
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You see that, OP? You’re not the only one with mixed emotions. Maybe you could get to know this pilot at lunch somewhere, say Ruby Tuesday, maybe. Great lunch specials. I say let your son go flying. It’s a great form of transportation. Trust me. I’ve walked for miles, my feet are hurtin’. When I was a kid you couldn’t keep me away from airplanes. Wild horses couldn’t drag me away. On the other hand, kids are different these days. Get off my cloud. Lawn.
 
mscard88 said:
Poor breeding?! WTF James! :eek:
You made me spit out my PBR when I read that shet. :rofl:
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It's a thing

I know, as humans, we like to think we are beyond all that science stuff, but we are just animals, same as the reason I checked my dogs lines before I got him, sadly with all the money and time people spend on their offspring they don't always think about their genetic lines before reproducing. Genetics......it can be a biotach
 
James331 said:
It's a thing

I know, as humans, we like to think we are beyond all that science stuff, but we are just animals, same as the reason I checked my dogs lines before I got him, sadly with all the money and time people spend on their offspring they don't always think about their genetic lines before reproducing. Genetics......it can be a biotach
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:ihih: :nonod: :nono:
 
ChiefPilot said:
Maybe. But my limited experience thus far is that there are some real stinkers in there as well, such as the downwind-turn dude that believes that instrument approaches are flown somehow with a "ball and string".

The average CAP person I've come across has no aerobatics experience, has little experience other than flying a C-172 or maybe C-182 around on practice missions, and lacks the extras that suggest competency such as a commercial ticket, a tailwheel endorsement, and instrument rating, or similar. There are absolutely exceptions, I'm sure - I just haven't met any of them yet.
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Do you have an advanced degree in American Literature? Have you won the Pulitzer Prize for your prose? If not, you should probably stop posting since you clearly lack the extras that suggest you’re a competent writer. ;)
 
If I had a dog, that I wanted to run away, it wouldn't be allowed to fly with CAP

Seriously, stay away from this fake ass wannabe crew of Colonel Sanders!!!


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I presume he rides a bus to school? You trust the bus driver?
I presume he has a teacher in school? You trust the teacher to teach?
I presume he’s ridden in a car other than your own? You trust the other driver?
No bus? Then he walks to school? You trust him to stay on sidewalks and follow the rules, plus the other drivers to stay off the sidewalks?

Some else said it, helicopter parent, poor kid will never grow up and learn to trust his own instinct and judgment.
 
If you have to ask POA what to do...you already know what to do.
 
danhagan said:
I'm sorry guys, but I'd never let my kid fly with someone I haven't flown with ... only going with "gee, I heard great things about that guy" from others.
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Of course airlines are different...?
 
mondtster said:
I wouldn't be so quick to believe that a CAP pilot is any better than the average pilot. Having given a fair amount of instruction to both CAP and non-CAP pilots, I can't really tell any difference in their flying abilities or knowledge. There are good and mediocre pilots in both groups.
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I think you could say that about any two groups of pilots (GA, airline, 135 charter, military...).
My guess is the company policies, training, and standardization make the biggest difference.
 
Duster said:
If I had a dog, that I wanted to run away, it wouldn't be allowed to fly with CAP

Seriously, stay away from this fake ass wannabe crew of Colonel Sanders!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Congratulations! You have posted one of the most idiotic posts ever. Well done!
 
BillTIZ said:
Some else said it, helicopter parent, poor kid will never grow up and learn to trust his own instinct and judgment.
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You must be in great shape, considering all the exercise you get from jumping to conclusions.
 
ChiefPilot said:
So question for the larger group - how do you assess the abilities of a potentially low-time pilot to fly a family member around in a Cessna 172?

The situation isn't quite as generic as that perhaps - my son is in a CAP squadron and has the opportunity to go for an "O-flight". One of the squadrons pilots was just not someone I'd feel comfortable flying with, let alone my son, after talking with him on-and-off over the course of the last year. I've not met this other pilot however and my son *really* wants to go. I'll have 20 minutes to meet the individual and in which to make a go/no-go decision.

I'm not exactly Chuck Jagger, but I far exceed the flight experience required to be a CAP mission pilot which are pretty light at 200hrs PIC, 50 X/C.

Anyone else been in a similar situation? Anyone have any thoughts to share?
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My son is 14 now and a little different situation. He has been flying with me since he was 2 and he can fly, takeoff and land my 172 pretty perfect. He has flown 172's, C-140, open cockpit Skybolt, Pitts S-2C, several Christen Eagles, Pitts Model 12, Decathlon, J-3's, Breeezy and several other planes with me. He wants to get his license at 17.
Now here is the problem... He WILL NOT fly with anyone else but me..... He will not get on a airliner or any other plane with a different pilot. So he tells me If I don't get me CFI and teach him he will not fly with another instructor. LOL! A complete opposite problem than the one you are dealing with. Hell, I'm not that good of a pilot :)
 
I've been in CAP for 29 years, and I've only met 2 pilots whose judgement I question. Neither of them have had an accident, incident, or a truly close call. Like any group of pilots, skill level varies, but it's rare for the real stinkers to stick around very long.

There are checks built into the system that improve safety, and stricter rules about what can be done in the airplane for cadet rides. The annual checkride is similar to a BFR ride and includes a specific endorsement from the check pilot that the candidate is qualified to fly cadets. The unit commander has to specifically appoint the pilot as a cadet pilot. Each flight is briefed by a flight release officer to ensure safety and compliance with the regs. The system isn't fool-proof and relies on the person at each check point competently doing their job (i.e. saying "No" when appropriate), but it does help.

As I would tell any parent at our activities, it's certainly your right to make a decision whether to allow your child to participate. Talk to your kid's unit commander. If the pilot is from another squadron in the group, talk to the STAN/EVAL officer, who is in charge of all the checkrides. And if you don't get information that makes you feel comfortable, discretely as the person in charge to assign your kid to a different pilot. The people in charge may or may not be good at handling the situation. Try to keep in mind that they are tasked with managing an awful lot, with lots of regulatory oversight, and very little training on administrative and management issues.
 
ChiefPilot said:
So question for the larger group - how do you assess the abilities of a potentially low-time pilot to fly a family member around in a Cessna 172?

The situation isn't quite as generic as that perhaps - my son is in a CAP squadron and has the opportunity to go for an "O-flight". One of the squadrons pilots was just not someone I'd feel comfortable flying with, let alone my son, after talking with him on-and-off over the course of the last year. I've not met this other pilot however and my son *really* wants to go. I'll have 20 minutes to meet the individual and in which to make a go/no-go decision.

I'm not exactly Chuck Jagger, but I far exceed the flight experience required to be a CAP mission pilot which are pretty light at 200hrs PIC, 50 X/C.

Anyone else been in a similar situation? Anyone have any thoughts to share?
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So, did the flight go or not go..???
 
Zeldman said:
So, did the flight go or not go..???
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No, but not for reasons discussed.

Son couldn't go because he had late assignments in school that needed to be done and turned in; from the outset, having all schoolwork completed takes precedence over participating in CAP activities. He was up front about it that day and disappointed, but I was happy he took responsibility for his own (in)actions. Easy enough. We let the pilot know that my son wouldn't be able to participate.

The pilot, however, went on about how it was an inconvience to him and asked that we make an exception. When I told him that we couldn't, he said my son might not be eligible to participate in O flights in the future. CAP gonna CAP I guess.
 
Thanks for the update. I bet your are proud of your boy.

ChiefPilot said:
The pilot, however, went on about how it was an inconvience to him and asked that we make an exception. When I told him that we couldn't, he said my son might not be eligible to participate in O flights in the future. CAP gonna CAP I guess.
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Wow... this guy really has the wrong attitude. Sounds like he may have a control problem to me.
 
ChiefPilot said:
When I told him that we couldn't, he said my son might not be eligible to participate in O flights in the future. CAP gonna CAP I guess.
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I bet a nickel this pilot was a former cadet himself. Some folks just can't help themselves. If that was me, I'd be on the phone to the unit commander right away. There's no place for that.

Good for your son for owning up in advance.
 
Y'know, it'd be great if there were a means to know someone is safe enough to carry a passenger on a flight. Maybe the USG could establish some standards, and then there could be instructors to teach pilots. After the instruction, maybe the USG could have someone designated to examine the aeronautical knowledge and flying abilities of the new pilot.

If these trained instructors and examiners were satisfied, they could then issue, oh, I don't know, some sort of certificate to the pilot that would attest to his capability and legal authorization to transport a passenger in an airplane.

What do you folks think of this novel, innovative suggestion?
 
ChiefPilot said:
Clever post.
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Thank you.

At least it’s more clever than asking random people on the internet, who haven’t met the pilot in question, your son, or you, their opinion about whether you should let your son fly with the guy. Obviously the pilot’s CFI and DPE know quite a bit more about him than we do. If you don’t trust their opinions, or even trust your own, why on earth would you trust ours?
 
Heh heh


James said crotch fruit. :lol:

Chief, your kid your rules. Let him fly or don't. My daughters are 22 now and it took a long time for me to trust anyone around them when what I really needed was to trust them - trust them to tell someone acting the fool to knock it off and take them home.
 
Half Fast said:
At least it’s more clever than asking random people on the internet, who haven’t met the pilot in question, your son, or you, their opinion about whether you should let your son fly with the guy. Obviously the pilot’s CFI and DPE know quite a bit more about him than we do. If you don’t trust their opinions, or even trust your own, why on earth would you trust ours?
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I get where you're coming from, although if you re-read the original post that's not what I asked.

And in any event, the matter is closed as shown a few posts previous to your original reply.
 
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ChiefPilot said:
No, but not for reasons discussed.

Son couldn't go because he had late assignments in school that needed to be done and turned in; from the outset, having all schoolwork completed takes precedence over participating in CAP activities. He was up front about it that day and disappointed, but I was happy he took responsibility for his own (in)actions. Easy enough. We let the pilot know that my son wouldn't be able to participate.

The pilot, however, went on about how it was an inconvience to him and asked that we make an exception. When I told him that we couldn't, he said my son might not be eligible to participate in O flights in the future. CAP gonna CAP I guess.
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1) talk to the squadron commander about that pilot. What he said is complete BS and essentially threatened your son
2) more important, tell the squadron commander about the arrogant attitude of the pilot. He won't be flying Orides anymore.
 
murphey said:
1) talk to the squadron commander about that pilot. What he said is complete BS and essentially threatened your son
2) more important, tell the squadron commander about the arrogant attitude of the pilot. He won't be flying Orides anymore.
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Of course, there’s always another side to the story....
 
Kritchlow said:
Of course, there’s always another side to the story....
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If ChiefPilot let the CAP pilot know in a reasonable amount of time, that's expected and appreciated courtesy to the CAP pilot. If ChiefPilot's son was not the only Oride the CAP pilot was doing, the CAP pilot should have said "thanks for the heads up" and continued with the other Orides.

If this was the only Oride, I'd be astonished and amazed. As a rule, Orides are 2 cadets and a CAP pilot for various reasons. Some units don't even allow Orides for one cadet.
 
Paperwork doesn't make an aircraft safe to fly - and brash commentary doesn't make a pilot unsafe.

We don't want to talk about the old guy who gave me my first lessons in the mid 70's in an explorer program. . . he'd fail so many FAA rules of thumb and corporate instructional classes that people would run away from the guy and he'd be famous on you tube. . . .

But he was one of the best natural stick's I've ever flown with - even in his mid 70's - never bent metal that was not a mechanical issue and he taught me that a heading 082 was 082 - not 080 and not 085, and that 4500 was 4500' not 4480 or 4560. You have no idea how much that type of precision helped me learn to fly the damn airplane as pilot in command, not merely as a spectator to what it was doing. But he'd fail at CRM and all the other -ism's and ist's that modern psychology has created for safety. But having skills - mad azz skillz to use 'modern phraseology' - proved that 'aviation chiefly requires skill and not technology' or some such quote by the guy who signed off his first pilot certificate. . . . and this precision was back in the days of compasses. . .
 
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