Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Maybe, but this is Homeland Security and you need to think of the children.
Still, the folks that are first in line are going to be the experimental subjects.
Another nail in the coffin....
- Thread starter wsuffa
- Start date
Maybe, but this is Homeland Security and you need to think of the children.
Still, the folks that are first in line are going to be the experimental subjects.
TK211X
Pre-takeoff checklist
I think the photo is not on the certificate because there is no expiration date on them. So it would look weird with a 40 year old and a photo of a 20 year old on the plastic. Also, I think they are anticipating the fact, that, soon medicals won't expire after the initial. So they are making student certificates as proof of that first examination and at least a background check for sh*ts and giggles to try and prevent "oh why" incidents anywhere close to this ---> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Tampa_airplane_crash
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Austin_suicide_attack
Last edited:
tuwood
Pre-takeoff checklist
Hopefully none of the background stuff changed. I have an old misdemeanor assault on my record that I'm pretty confident isn't an issue under the current system.
I could see them getting all crazy if the TSA is now involved though.
Anybody know a link where they list disqualifying offenses for the background checks, and are they changing as part of this shift?
I could see them getting all crazy if the TSA is now involved though.
Anybody know a link where they list disqualifying offenses for the background checks, and are they changing as part of this shift?
I think they need everybody to get in one big line and do security on everybody, we can cover gun purchases, D.L., alcohol, cigarettes, condoms, recreational weed, etc. That way their is no discrimination and it will be more efficient to screen everybody just once and it will make everybody safer and it will be "free."
RotorAndWing
Final Approach
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2008
- Messages
- 8,496
- Location
- Other side of the world
- Display Name
Display name:
Rotor&Wing
Yep. While those who will proclaim "It's the FAA's fault!" little do they realize this is all coming from Congress. And come November the complainers will blindly go re-elect their incumbent Congress person and still not understand why these changes keep happening.
rbridges
En-Route
RalphInCA
Cleared for Takeoff
OH MY GOD!!
UnTSAapproved people flying by themselves in traffic patterns!!
WE CANNOT HAVE THAT!
TSA - DO SOMETHING!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
UnTSAapproved people flying by themselves in traffic patterns!!
WE CANNOT HAVE THAT!
TSA - DO SOMETHING!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gucci Pilot
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2014
- Messages
- 2,066
- Display Name
Display name:
Gucci Pilot
I'm mostly concerned with the wave of, "I applied for my student cert, where is my plastic card?" Threads that are gonna start happening.
I had to show my PRIVATE once. To the PG County Cop (who probably had no clue what he was looking at) when I was trying to get my airplane out of VKX 5 weeks after 9/11.
tuwood
Pre-takeoff checklist
RotorAndWing
Final Approach
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2008
- Messages
- 8,496
- Location
- Other side of the world
- Display Name
Display name:
Rotor&Wing
Chip Sylverne
Final Approach
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2006
- Messages
- 5,892
- Display Name
Display name:
Quit with the negative waves, man.
Hopefully none of the background stuff changed. I have an old misdemeanor assault on my record that I'm pretty confident isn't an issue under the current system.
I could see them getting all crazy if the TSA is now involved though.
Anybody know a link where they list disqualifying offenses for the background checks, and are they changing as part of this shift?
Best I can find, no idea if it relates.
https://www.tsa.gov/disqualifying-offenses-factors
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
They pay for the airports, they make the rules.You get all the gov't you deserve. Plus some extra.
Need to work on back up recreation plans, who likes canoes?
It's so nice to have you back Greg.
tuwood
Pre-takeoff checklist
Thanks for digging that up. I wonder if that's for employment or for the pilots license.
Either way I'm good to go on all of them because mine is a misdemeanor assault from far longer than 7 years ago. Looks like I could even have an aggravated felony as long as it's been at least 7 years. phew
I do have a friend that was busted for making fireworks in his garage though, so it looks like he's perma banned from ever being a pilot... eek
Katamarino
Pattern Altitude
Yet another job creation scheme to keep government large and expensive.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Which elected official wrote the 2010 NPRM?
Key words here, "NPRM" and "ignored".
Congress does not write NPRMs by regulatory agencies.
Nope.
Explain how Congress forced the NPRM to be floated in 2010, and the comments ignored.
Neither of those are Congressional functions.
One can claim Congress didn't provide appropriate oversight to the agency, but the agency writes NPRMs and implements them.
Bonchie
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2014
- Messages
- 1,505
- Display Name
Display name:
Bonchie
3 weeks...lol?
Yeah right. When I got TSA vetted for the FRZ, it took them 6 weeks (and that was after I bugged them). Imagine how much longer it'll take when it's not just us around DC having to do this.
Yeah right. When I got TSA vetted for the FRZ, it took them 6 weeks (and that was after I bugged them). Imagine how much longer it'll take when it's not just us around DC having to do this.
The list of disqualifying offenses is for TSA Pre, not disqualifying from ever getting a pilot's license.
Lindberg
Final Approach
Can you provide a pointer to that legislation? TIA.
midlifeflyer
Touchdown! Greaser!
I'm slowly becoming convinced that the greatest threat to GA is articles and posts about the threat to GA.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I think I found it and found it in another thread.
In 2004 there was an act signed into law that required FAA to add photos to pilot certs and to comply with other Homeland Security and TSA requirements. In 2012 the requirement for photos was shelved. It's looking very much like it's TSA that's driving this right now, not FAA.
I'll dig up those links when I get some more time.
edit:
Here it is:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1994812&postcount=23
But I was only looking at the photo-ID aspect of it. After I read through them again just now, I didn't see where TSA or Homeland Security was mentioned in the ID requirements. So my first sentence should say: " In 2004 there was an act signed into law that required FAA to add photos to pilot certs."
Last edited:
Brad Z
Final Approach
It's in the first paragraph of the original NPRM. It states:
This action would require a person to carry a pilot certificate with photo to exercise the privileges of the pilot certificate. This proposal responds to section 4022 of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act (IRTPA).
Here's section 4022 of the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act (IRTPA):
SEC. 4022. IMPROVED PILOT LICENSES.
(a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than one year after the date of
enactment of this Act, the Administrator of the Federal Aviation
Administration shall begin to issue improved pilot licenses consistent
with the requirements of title 49, United States Code, and
title 14, Code of Federal Regulations.
(b) REQUIREMENTS.—Improved pilots licenses issued under subsection
(a) shall—
(1) be resistant to tampering, alteration, and counterfeiting;
(2) include a photograph of the individual to whom the
license is issued; and
(3) be capable of accommodating a digital photograph, a
biometric identifier, or any other unique identifier that the
Administrator considers necessary.
(c) TAMPERING.—To the extent practical, the Administrator
shall develop methods to determine or reveal whether any component
or security feature of a license issued under subsection (a)
has been tampered, altered, or counterfeited.
(d) USE OF DESIGNEES.—The Administrator may use designees
to carry out subsection (a) to the extent feasible in order to minimize
the burdens on pilots.
S
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yeah, that's the same thing I found in my previous post. Thanks for the cut and paste to simplify things. I included links to the entire set of documents involved.
Brad Z
Final Approach
See my previous post. The law directed the FAA to take action. The NPRM was the action taken. The FAA has better things to do then put pictures on certificates. Clearly the agencies priorities for this effort were reflected in a 2016 final rule on a 2010 NPRM, precipitated by a 2004 law. The FAA can only push these things off for so long...
The comments were not ignored. Did you submit a comment?
I can assure you that each and every comment is read by someone, and every comment theme is responded to in the NPRM. In some cases the FAA changes the final rule (such as CFI's processing applications). In other cases the comments are contrary to the marching orders given by congress.
No, but they tell agencies to do things. The NPRM is a requirement of the administrative procedure act (APA) for agencies whenever any rule-making efforts take place.
I think I made my point.
Oversight for doing what they were told to do???
denverpilot
Tied Down
Well there ya go. It was Congress. Of course it was Congress three years after 9/11 that was still in full blown security theater mode, and it only took FAA 12 years to announce they'd do what the law said had to be implemented in one.
I smell a negotiation for budget going on here that we aren't hearing about. Wonder which Congresscritter FAA is trying to annoy and what they said no to.
Haha.
Well anyway... Even assuming the best intentions...
12 years. Boy there's some efficiency baby. Smokin hot. Took so long people forgot what Congress passed. Including me. LOL. Only nearly three full Presidential terms... A baby born the year the legislation was passed will be a teenager next year. Haha. Etc.
I smell a negotiation for budget going on here that we aren't hearing about. Wonder which Congresscritter FAA is trying to annoy and what they said no to.
Haha.
Well anyway... Even assuming the best intentions...
12 years. Boy there's some efficiency baby. Smokin hot. Took so long people forgot what Congress passed. Including me. LOL. Only nearly three full Presidential terms... A baby born the year the legislation was passed will be a teenager next year. Haha. Etc.
RotorAndWing
Final Approach
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2008
- Messages
- 8,496
- Location
- Other side of the world
- Display Name
Display name:
Rotor&Wing
The FAA can only do what is in their budget. If congress mandates the agency to do something, then congress has to allocate the funding. Without the funding, the DOT and FAA cannot comply.
RotorAndWing
Final Approach
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2008
- Messages
- 8,496
- Location
- Other side of the world
- Display Name
Display name:
Rotor&Wing
It is. People won't be happy until the FAA initiates a process of going to the Post Office, fill out a card and hand it in and be issued a pilot's license.
Then they will complain about going to the Post Office to do it.....
Palmpilot
Touchdown! Greaser!
It is. People won't be happy until the FAA initiates a process of going to the Post Office, fill out a card and hand it in and be issued a pilot's license.
Then they will complain about going to the Post Office to do it.....
I'm worried about two things:
1. Will the time to process applications be reasonable?
2. Will the due process provisions be adequate?
I think we're just going to have to wait and see for the answers to those questions, but so far, the TSA doesn't have a great track record on number 2, and bureaucracies in general don't have a consistent track record on number 1.
Caramon13
Pattern Altitude
I actually did find it a bit odd that AME's were issuing both a medical and a license to fly. Seemed to me that AME's should issue the medical and the FAA should issue the license to fly..you know, kinda like the DMV?
Yeah it's just a student license, but what better way to learn the process for the application then actually DOING it? Goodness knows they'll have to do numerous applications for other licenses/ratings at some point, might as well get started early on.
It's a commitment thing too. Took me 4 months of flying about 2-3 times a week to get my PPL and about a month to solo. I did a lot of solo flying as well, but I took my time.
What's the big rush to solo in a month, I mean, other than the thrill of it? It's only about a quarter of the required time anyway..if that.
This is a non-event..
Yeah it's just a student license, but what better way to learn the process for the application then actually DOING it? Goodness knows they'll have to do numerous applications for other licenses/ratings at some point, might as well get started early on.
It's a commitment thing too. Took me 4 months of flying about 2-3 times a week to get my PPL and about a month to solo. I did a lot of solo flying as well, but I took my time.
What's the big rush to solo in a month, I mean, other than the thrill of it? It's only about a quarter of the required time anyway..if that.
This is a non-event..
MAKG1
Touchdown! Greaser!
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2012
- Messages
- 13,411
- Location
- California central coast
- Display Name
Display name:
MAKG
If pilot IDs are FIPS compliant, does that mean all those stupid SIDA cards go away? That could be a BIG improvement.
When NASA transitioned to PIV cards, I was suddenly able to access all nonclassified NASA sites, not just my home center. It made visits to Dryden/Edwards and Johnson considerably easier to execute, and it still helps me on the occasional CAP visit to an Air Force base.
When NASA transitioned to PIV cards, I was suddenly able to access all nonclassified NASA sites, not just my home center. It made visits to Dryden/Edwards and Johnson considerably easier to execute, and it still helps me on the occasional CAP visit to an Air Force base.
Phoenix
Ejection Handle Pulled
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2015
- Messages
- 583
- Display Name
Display name:
Phoenix
Who is Greg?
RussR
En-Route
Not everyone has the same timeline or goals. I went to college with a guy who had about a month off in the summer and wanted to get his PP certificate. He went start to finish flying every day, in 21 days so he could get back to school. That's very accelerated obviously but not uncommon. Obviously a 3-week delay wouldn't have worked for him.
But, I agree it's almost a non-event. It will just take a little more planning - you can't meet with a CFI and immediately start an intensive training program. Instead, accelerated programs will have to have their students apply for the student pilot cert well before training starts. I don't know how this will affect the schools that train international students (since they might not be able to meet with a CFI beforehand). Just something that needs to be worked out.
Of course, 3 weeks is the stated goal. Which means that inevitably it will be more at the start.
Last edited:
He also hasn't explained how a congressional directive to issue photo licenses somehow gets morphed into pushing new pilots through a needless bureacracy.
Step 1. IGNORE CONGRESS AND THE CONSTITUTION
Step 2. Issue an NPRM
Step 3. IGNORE THE RULES YOU MADE UP YOURSELF
Step 4. Do whatever you like unless some big bucks people like the AMA thorw a wrench in your rulemaking at the DOT level.
clarkmueller
Pre-Flight
Where do you expect them to find the time for advocacy with all the time they have to spend fundraising?
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
...no amount of background checking would have prevented either of these. These were suicides by airplane. The kid in Tampa managed to prove that Cessnas by themselves can't do much damage to buildings. I think there was another one recently that may turn out to be suicide/attempted murder.
It's theater at best... theatre at worst.
But the bigger question is why AOPA didn't do its job and raise a big stink about this NPRM all along. And if the public comments were ignored, why will public outcry be given credence now?
MIFlyer
Pattern Altitude
I think the key to not losing momentum is that someone should be able to go online, request a student certificate and have that be completely disconnected from getting a medical.
Then it could be:
Takes discovery flight, super excited!
Schedules lesson - comes back
At end of first lesson, instructor tells him to get medical and request pilot cert
continues lessons to solo proficiency.
--- probably has the paper back by the time he's scheduled and met the AME,and gotten ready to solo.
On the other hand, if someone knows they are going to "get their license this summer", then early steps are "go ahead and read the AFH and while you're at it, request you student cert from the FAA online, so that when you start lessons, you'll be ready"
Then it could be:
Takes discovery flight, super excited!
Schedules lesson - comes back
At end of first lesson, instructor tells him to get medical and request pilot cert
continues lessons to solo proficiency.
--- probably has the paper back by the time he's scheduled and met the AME,and gotten ready to solo.
On the other hand, if someone knows they are going to "get their license this summer", then early steps are "go ahead and read the AFH and while you're at it, request you student cert from the FAA online, so that when you start lessons, you'll be ready"
denverpilot
Tied Down
So Congress allocated funds this year? No. They did not.
Either FAA has some autonomy in internal budgeting or they don't. Which is it?
They seemed to magically find funds to announce the start of this a decade after it was mandated by law.
Find some coins in the couch cushions of the ADS-B free love sofa?