Another nail in the coffin....

Why? What are the concerns they have that this will resolve? Who checks licenses anyhow? Outside of my checkrides, I have only been asked 1 time to see my pilots license and that was flying back from outside of the country last year by customs.
 
Is there a big problem with uncleared student pilots doing something that this will prevent?
 
Brad Z said:
You can apply for a student pilot certificate on lesson one. How many people solo in three weeks?
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C'mon Brad...with the TSA involved do you really think it be only three weeks? More like three months.

And yes, I have had students flying 3 to 4 times a week that were ready to solo in just a little over a week. Depends on the student. Now we have to depend on the TSA.

This IS NOT going to work out good for flight training.
 
How long until TSA goes after the rest of us they haven't vetted?
 
Matthew said:
How long until TSA goes after the rest of us they haven't vetted?
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I have prepared a speech for them if they do. Two words, second one is "off."
 
Brad Z said:
You can apply for a student pilot certificate on lesson one. How many people solo in three weeks?
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My wife and I did our entire PPLs in less than that, during a vacation in Florida, before we moved to the US. For foreign students, this new rule is a major pain, as there are very few FAA medical examiners outside the US. I understand, that applicants first need to pass the medical before they can even start the process. There are quite a few flight school whose entire business model is based on foreign full-time students...

The article doesn't mention that they in return got rid of the TSA approval foreign students have to get, before they even start their training!? Do they now still have to apply at the TSA through flightschoolcandidates.gov AND will additionally be checked by the FAA!? :confused:

(OK, this is sarcasm) While I am sure that this is only for our own 'safety', I was still slightly puzzled, that I again had to go through the entire application process on flightschoolcandidates.gov, before I began with the training for my instrument rating. Yes, I understand that it is a very real risk that a terrorist would first get an instrument rating, before he would hijack an airliner or fly a mighty 172 into a building, but still - I have a US green card, am a 'trusted traveler' in the 'Global Entry' program and passed a background check, every time I purchased a gun. I even own a plane and therefore (obviously erroneously) assumed that I would be trusted to get some additional training... :rolleyes:
 
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I don't want to get political, but last week our Texas governor proposed a set of constitutional amendments, one of which would prevent exactly this sort of cr#p.

These rulings by bureaucrats, who are backed by the politicians in power, have seriously eroded our liberties over the last fifteen years.

There are too many to list, but they are adding up to the point where even freedom of speech is being attacked.
 
If you think there is a pilot shortage now give this textual legislative abortion a couple years to run its course.
 
Brad Z said:
You can apply for a student pilot certificate on lesson one. How many people solo in three weeks?
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I just looked at my logbook: I soloed on day 2.


I passed my check ride on day 18.
 
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Glad I have my medical scheduled for next week.
 
Gee has worked fine the way it is for how many years? But let's change it. Washington, pffftttt! :mad2::mad2::mad2::mad2:
 
They pay for the airports, they make the rules.:rofl: You get all the gov't you deserve. Plus some extra.:lol: Need to work on back up recreation plans, who likes canoes?
 
Sorry if this is out of line here, but wtf is congress doing allowing this stuff to happen?
 
This part is funny, can't even get a picture on the certificate and they want to get all fancy:
The FAA says it has another NPRM in the works that would require all pilot certificates to be resistant to tampering, alteration and counterfeiting, and to include a photograph and “biometric information.” The new rule issued today began with an NPRM issued in November 2010. The FAA received about 470 comments on that proposal.
 
When they get done killing off GA, are they going to wonder why the airlines can't find 1500-hour pilots to sit in the right seat?
 
Anybody know if the expiration date changes on the new certificate or what it will be?
 
The way I read it: You can still get your 3rd class the day you solo, but it's only the student certificate part that's going to take weeks. So part of your intro flight might end up being getting your student certificate application turned in. Any word on what it will cost to apply?
 
I read through the whole final rule. Here is my summary:

- Prospective students will get their medicals from the AME like usual. These will NOT have "and Student Pilot Certificate" printed on them.
- They will have to apply for a Student Pilot Certificate using IACRA and routed through one of several people, the most likely one being their CFI (DPEs, FSDO ASIs and others are possible as well).
- The application will be routed by the FAA through TSA for security checks.
- The student will then get a plastic Student Pilot Certificate that looks like the other pilot certificates.
- Student Pilot Certificates will not expire.
- The original proposal for a photo on all pilot certificates is rescinded.
- There will be no cost (just like current pilot certificates).

What's going to have to happen for accelerated training courses is advanced planning. You meet with the CFI a few weeks before you plan to start training, so that the Student Pilot certificate processing doesn't delay you.

Also, the NPRM came out in 2010 and was really part of the larger "photo ID" proposal, so it's no surprise that many of us either haven't heard of it or completely forgot about it. AOPA did actually provide comments. See article from 2011:

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/FAATold_PhotoIDsDontFly_204156-1.html

They just removed the photo ID part but kept much of the rest.
 
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"The new rule issued today began with an NPRM issued in November 2010. The FAA received about 470 comments on that proposal, all of which were ignored."

FIFY, FAA and Avweb.
 
People keep voting in the same idiots and keep getting the same result and then wonder why. Silly humans.
 
Yay progress! Considering I've met a lot more people recently that get into the majors by way of starting in GA, compared to when I was a kid and people seemed to come more from the military route, I agree this is a great way to end up with another shortage.

To be selfish, I just love flying. Its what I live for. All I see is more and more restrictions. Not one single thing done by govt to promote it. Almost makes me want to switch to ultralights or a small home-built like a CGS Hawk II so that I can literally and figuratively fly under the radar.
 
alfadog said:
"The new rule issued today began with an NPRM issued in November 2010. The FAA received about 470 comments on that proposal, all of which were ignored."

FIFY, FAA and Avweb.
Click to expand...

To be fair, if you read the full rule as well as the response to the comments, you will see that many comments were adopted. For instance, CFIs were not in the original list of authorized people to take an application. It was DPEs, ASIs and a very few others. Commenters suggested CFIs would make a logical addition to the list, and they were added.

Not saying I like the rule, but to say the comments were all ignored is incorrect.
 
Phoenix said:
This part is funny, can't even get a picture on the certificate and they want to get all fancy:
The FAA says it has another NPRM in the works that would require all pilot certificates to be resistant to tampering, alteration and counterfeiting, and to include a photograph and “biometric information.” The new rule issued today began with an NPRM issued in November 2010. The FAA received about 470 comments on that proposal.
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What's the point of that one? In twenty years, the only time I've been asked for my certificate was so the DPE could tear it up when I added a rating (and tell me it was invalid because the FAA had outlawed paper certificates, oops).
 
RussR said:
To be fair, if you read the full rule as well as the response to the comments, you will see that many comments were adopted. For instance, CFIs were not in the original list of authorized people to take an application. It was DPEs, ASIs and a very few others. Commenters suggested CFIs would make a logical addition to the list, and they were added.

Not saying I like the rule, but to say the comments were all ignored is incorrect.
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Yeah, I realized that after reading on a bit. I assumed that the 2010 proposal was just about the student pilot issue, which obviously to me at least, any commenter would have objected to.
 
Phoenix said:
This part is funny, can't even get a picture on the certificate and they want to get all fancy:
The FAA says it has another NPRM in the works that would require all pilot certificates to be resistant to tampering, alteration and counterfeiting, and to include a photograph and “biometric information.” The new rule issued today began with an NPRM issued in November 2010. The FAA received about 470 comments on that proposal.
Click to expand...

For a "photo ID" with biometrics to be legal/acceptable to the US agencies, they will have to carry an expiration date. And it means you will have to go somewhere - like a FSDO, local police dept, driver license office, etc - to get the biometrics taken. When that happens, the days of a "lifetime" pilot license come to an end.

I would bet that the 8710 for BFRs is leading up to that....

Matthew said:
The way I read it: You can still get your 3rd class the day you solo, but it's only the student certificate part that's going to take weeks. So part of your intro flight might end up being getting your student certificate application turned in. Any word on what it will cost to apply?
Click to expand...

Uh, no. You can't solo without the student certificate.

According to this, the $22 fee was dropped from the proposal.
 
Zhunter said:
Sorry if this is out of line here, but wtf is congress doing allowing this stuff to happen?
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It's not out of line but a little misplaced.

Congress didn't "allow" it to happen. Congress "made" it happen. This is all in response to security legislation.
 
wsuffa said:
Uh, no. You can't solo without the student certificate.

According to this, the $22 fee was dropped from the proposal.
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I saw the $22 fee was dropped, but I didn't pay enough attention to the article to see if was actually dropped to zero.

And, yeah, I know you need the student cert to solo. But since it's going to be separate from the class 3, you can still see the AME in the morning, then solo in the afternoon. You'll just have to get your student cert application turned in well in advance so you can have it when you are ready to solo.

That article said FAA is going to try to get the times down to 3 weeks. I wonder how long the first year's worth of students will actually take?
 
If they're going to do this, at least they should offer an expedited handling for a fee service similar to passport applications.
 
alfadog said:
If they're going to do this, at least they should offer an expedited handling for a fee service similar to passport applications.
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Hmm... then they'd just extend those 3 weeks to 16 in order to cash in on the expedite fees.

Did I see that it takes effect in April? You don't want to be the first for this kind of thing.
 
Matthew said:
Hmm... then they'd just extend those 3 weeks to 16 in order to cash in on the expedite fees.

Did I see that it takes effect in April? You don't want to be the first for this kind of thing.
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They should be able to match the firearm background check timeframe easily enough and they could charge a reasonable fee for that.
 
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Matthew said:
Did I see that it takes effect in April? You don't want to be the first for this kind of thing.
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Wouldn't surprise me to see it postponed once they start hearing the uproar from flight schools and other interested parties. It's happened before.
 
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