Animals on Airlines - About time!

IBTL

Autumn has to provide paperwork to fly on Delta, but we can't expect ID to vote?

Autumn was born in TX and has all her papers and shots but it is inconvenient for her to carry them around all the time. She's already got a collar, harness, leash, and that unreasonable dude Ravioli to put up with.

Oh the humanity.

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It's gotten BEYOND a stupid. I've had turkeys, ducks, a pig and even a pony! I'm sorry a turkey is not an emotional support animal! It's dinner!!

My grandmother has a fake sevice animal vest for her poodle. It's illegal to inquire if the animal is truly a service animal. She does it out of 80 year old spite.
 
ARFlyer said:
My grandmother has a fake sevice animal vest for her poodle.
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This I take umbrage with. I take Autumn on commercial flights very regularly and I always pay the pet fee.

The fake service animal thing, quoting her, "I5 crap."
 
I had a girlfriend a while back that had her dogs registered as service animals for the sole purpose that she could take them on flights with her.

Personally, I don't really have a problem if someone wants to bring their dog/cat/whatever with them, provided they're well behaved or properly caged as necessary for the animal in question. But I DO have a real problem with folks abusing the "Service Animal" distinction. If you're not blind or otherwise actually using the animal to get you through the day (and emotion support doesn't count IMNSHO), then you don't get to use that Service Animal distinction.
 
This certainly has gotten out of hand. People bring untrained animals onboard. But even for people that suffer from severe allergies, having a cabin contaminated with animal dander and other allergens affects them as well. Finding that balance, but my overall impression at this time is that most animals masquerading as service animals right now are imposters. A real service animal is not aggressive, twitchy, and doesn't pull on leashes.
 
ARFlyer said:
It's illegal to inquire if the animal is truly a service animal.
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No it is not. A business is allowed to ask 2 questions to combat fake service animals. A private individual can ask as many questions as wanted.


(1) Is the animal required because of a disability?; and

(2) What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?

https://www.adatitleiii.com/2014/01...two-questions-you-are-allowed-to-ask-do-work/

Every time I see a yap yap dog with a vest from eBay that is carried in a purse I will ask the two questions.

And the ADA does not recognize an animal used for "emotional support".
 
Rockymountain said:
This certainly has gotten out of hand. People bring untrained animals onboard. But even for people that suffer from severe allergies, having a cabin contaminated with animal dander and other allergens affects them as well. Finding that balance, but my overall impression at this time is that most animals masquerading as service animals right now are imposters. A real service animal is not aggressive, twitchy, and doesn't pull on leashes.
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And a real service dog will not crap on the floor of a restaurant.....
 
Anymouse said:
I had a girlfriend a while back that had her dogs registered as service animals for the sole purpose that she could take them on flights with her.

Personally, I don't really have a problem if someone wants to bring their dog/cat/whatever with them, provided they're well behaved or properly caged as necessary for the animal in question. But I DO have a real problem with folks abusing the "Service Animal" distinction. If you're not blind or otherwise actually using the animal to get you through the day (and emotion support doesn't count IMNSHO), then you don't get to use that Service Animal distinction.
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If you were running for King I would vote for you.

Two or three weekends ago I saw a real live working dog with a blind owner. It's been a number of years since I've seen that. And in that time I've seen probably dozens of dogs with "Support Animal" vests in all sorts of places.
 
Zeldman said:
(1) Is the animal required because of a disability?; and
(2) What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?
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First off, you're expecting your interrogation to receive truthful responses from the dog owner. Good luck!

A1: Yes
A2: Fifi reminds me to take my meds.

Quoting your source: "a person with a psychological disability can have a service animal. Dogs trained to, for example, calm a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder during an anxiety attack, or remind a person with a mental illness to take prescribed medications, may qualify as service animals under the ADA."

Carry on person skirting the rules and God bless the foolish proprietor who attempts to request any sort of documentation.
 
Ravioli said:
Quoting your source: "a person with a psychological disability can have a service animal. Dogs trained to, for example, calm a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder during an anxiety attack, or remind a person with a mental illness to take prescribed medications, may qualify as service animals under the ADA."
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I am not really understanding what you are trying to show here. PTSD and mental illness is a diagnosed medical condition in which a service animal is allowed. I never said it was not allowed by the ADA.(Americans with Disabilities Act)

ADA also state that a business may ask two questions. No matter how much you disbelieve it. Sorry. But that business is not required to ask at all, they are just allowed to. And up to now documentation is not required to be shown. As a private citizen I can ask questions until the (support) cows come home.

"Under the ADA Title III regulations issued by the Department of Justice (DOJ), there are two questions that a business or other public accommodation may ask to determine if an animal qualifies as a service animal:

(1) Is the animal required because of a disability?; and

(2) What work or task has the animal been trained to perform? "

And I don't care if a person with a fake service animal answers truthfully or not. That animal will show by its behavior if it is an trained service animal. (Oh, and so I know that you know, the animal can be trained by a business specializing in service animals or just by the owner, but the differences really show up in public.) Last Sunday I watched a "service dog" with a vest take a dump in a restaurant. Several people demanded that the dog be taken outside. The manager agreed as soon as those people said they would walk out without paying. Really weak leadership by the manager, very indecisive. She needed the customers to make decisions for her.

I am not the one trying to pass off a hippopotamus in Walmart as a service animal, so what rules am I skirting.?

I really don't care if someone wants to bring a pet everywhere as long as that pet is not a problem to others. But will you be financially responsible if I have severe allergies to your pet and have to be rushed to the emergency room because of close contact with your pet?

Carry on person whom I really don't understand what your point is.
 
The point, which clearly escapes you, is that you may ask those two questions but you may not challenge the validity of the answers.

Do you think the industry that sells little red vests doesn't give minimal education to their clientele, whom I already stated I disagree with?

Won't be long before a case bubbles up that a proprietor exceeded their rights in questioning someone claiming disability who was actually posing and the ALCU says that it doesn't matter if the person was disabled, only that the inquiry was illegal.

Also, my least favorite dodge.. "I'm not disabled but I'm training Fifi." Training service dogs are also allowed for flight.

And you can't even ask how long that training has been going on.
 
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Apologies if already posted.
One document from the DOJ on the topic (ha, pretty close to DOG)
Another from the Am Veterinary Med Assn.
Some might find it adds to the knowledge on the topic.
 

Attachments

  • FAQ about service animals Justice Dept.pdf
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  • Assistance-Animals-Rights-Access-Fraud-AVMA.pdf
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its about time,its always fun ,when your next to an oversize passenger,with a large dog,that has no training.
 
Emotional turkey? I admit, that's a first for me. Kudos to the individual though, that's some level 69 airline trolling. Well played. :D
 
I have no problem with animals, but I do not like when people abuse the "service animal" definition. I think that the owner should have to carry documentation, similar to the way they handle handicapped placards. I know the placard comes with documentation about who is authorized to use it. At least it does in California. I never tried to cheat and use my mom's placard when she was not in the car with me.
 
Everskyward said:
I have no problem with animals, but I do not like when people abuse the "service animal" definition. I think that the owner should have to carry documentation, similar to the way they handle handicapped placards. I know the placard comes with documentation about who is authorized to use it. At least it does in California. I never tried to cheat and use my mom's placard when she was not in the car with me.
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Same deal in the state of Washington. The person the placard is issued to gets a card that they must carry when it is in use.
 
Its not about passengers comfort or "incidents", its about them making more money, people will still bring their same dogs, which delta is 100% fine with, just delta wants money from them now

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Frankly, I dont fly that crap airline, and for how cramped the seats are, and how they charge for every little thing, if people want to save money by doing the service dog thing, so long as the dog stays in the space they paid for, have at it.


Zeldman said:
And a real service dog will not crap on the floor of a restaurant.....
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Nor will mine, or most


Again its not the issue delta has, its all about $$$


My pup is quite well behaved and decently trained, even has a few more advanced classes under is belt, or rather collar, and I have him registered because if I feel like taking my dog, who is 40lbs and will just curl up and sleep in the area I pay for, on a airline where I am treated like cattle, sorry I deny you your additional $125.
 
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Everskyward said:
I think that the owner should have to carry documentation,
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The DOJ link I posted above specifically prohibits the requirement at this time. See excerpt below.
I think its reasonable to believe that this was something the disabled wanted - to be treated the same was as anyone else - no documentation required. However, the downside is the current mess with non disabled people abusing this lack of rules; and we may see a change coming.

Q17 "Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has..."
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
The DOJ link I posted above specifically prohibits the requirement at this time. See excerpt below.
I think its reasonable to believe that this was something the disabled wanted - to be treated the same was as anyone else - no documentation required. However, the downside is the current mess with non disabled people abusing this lack of rules; and we may see a change coming.

Q17 "Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has..."
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I realize that is the current rule, but I think it should be changed due to people abusing the privilege.
 
James331 said:
Its not about passengers comfort or "incidents", its about them making more money, people will still bring their same dogs, which delta is 100% fine with, just delta wants money from them now

rX40zd.jpg


Frankly, I dont fly that crap airline, and for how cramped the seats are, and how they charge for every little thing, if people want to save money by doing the service dog thing, so long as the dog stays in the space they paid for, have at it.




Nor will mine, or most


Again its not the issue delta has, its all about $$$


My pup is quite well behaved and decently trained, even has a few more advanced classes under is belt, or rather collar, and I have him registered because if I feel like taking my dog, who is 40lbs and will just curl up and sleep in the area I pay for, on a airline where I am treated like cattle, sorry I deny you your additional $125.
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You neglected to mention that the animal needs to be in a carrier that fits under the seat in front of you. I doubt your 40 lb dog would qualify.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/e...ial-travel-needs/pets/pet-travel-options.html
 
I was on a red-eye coming back from Denver. It wasn't supposed to be a red eye, but that's United for you. After they kicked us out of the Red Carpet club an hour before the flight left (really, if you're going to screw people, let's do it big time), I get on. I give Margy the window seat and I'm stuck next to some guy who has brought a little rat-dog puppy with him. Great. It was quiet for most of the flight until I finally fell asleep and this thing, unrestrained, decided to climb on top of my head. Scared the crap out of me. I almost threw it the length of the cabin.
 
Sitting at the gate loading up bags and people in an ATR, where one of the cargo areas is between the cockpit and the cabin. Feel something moving around at my feet, look and it's a dachshund! Pick him up (I looked) and carried him into the cockpit, everyone looking at me. Who is the owner? Passenger sheepishly raises his hand, I hand off the dog to him and say keep him there. The dog actually got out of his cage in the cargo area and wondered up to greet us.
 
For me, it's not about the animals themselves. I love animals. I wouldn't mind sitting in a planeful of them, but I am not fond of people faking medical or psychological conditions in order to get favorable treatment. It not only penalizes people who are honest, it penalizes people who have legitimate problems.
 
Lachlan said:
I’d rather be stuffed into a commercial flight with a cabin full of untrained, fake service animals than a bunch of real untrained humans.
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And what is it with all of the untrained humans these days? I see them all the time.
 
About time something was done about this. My sister in law is involved with dog agility competition and says a whole lot of people flying to competitions do the fake service animal thing just to transport the animals free in the cabin.
 
SkyDog58 said:
And what is it with all of the untrained humans these days? I see them all the time.
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Once spankings became forbidden, and punching someone in the mouth became equally egregious, people started getting bold, rebellious and raucous. Get off my lawn.
 
Lachlan said:
Once spankings became forbidden, and punching someone in the mouth became equally egregious, people started getting bold, rebellious and raucous. Get off my lawn.
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You talking about Antifa?

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Let'sgoflying! said:
The DOJ link I posted above specifically prohibits the requirement at this time. See excerpt below.
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Luckily for airlines that's only somewhat applicable. Service animals on airlines are governed by the Air Carrier Access Act and can ask more questions, including deciding if the passenger is credible, so claiming your untrained pot bellied pig is a service animal may get documentation requested. 14 CFR 382

Here's part of what it has to say:
382.117

a (2) On a flight segment scheduled to take 8 hours or more, you may, as a condition of permitting a service animal to travel in the cabin, require the passenger using the service animal to provide documentation that the animal will not need to relieve itself on the flight or that the animal can relieve itself in a way that does not create a health or sanitation issue on the flight.

(d) As evidence that an animal is a service animal, you must accept identification cards, other written documentation, presence of harnesses, tags, or the credible verbal assurances of a qualified individual with a disability using the animal.

(e) If a passenger seeks to travel with an animal that is used as an emotional support or psychiatric service animal, you are not required to accept the animal for transportation in the cabin unless the passenger provides you current documentation (i.e., no older than one year from the date of the passenger's scheduled initial flight) on the letterhead of a licensed mental health professional (e.g., psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, including a medical doctor specifically treating the passenger's mental or emotional disability) stating the following: ....
 
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