An aviation/tractor related rant

Jim K

Jim K

Final Approach
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Richard Digits
Like @Ted, I'm awash in old junk tractors that are marginally useful. Last fall, right before harvest, I discovered that the John Deere 401BD I use to fill my grain bins was putting oil into the coolant. With no time to fix it, I just sent it and hoped it would hold together. It did, but I'm not willing to risk it again. As I contemplated fixing it, which I will eventually do as I think it just needs a head gasket, I started to think it would be nice to have something newer. Something that is easier to operate so Teresa will use it.

After a lot of research I narrowed it it down to a 4052M as the new option, or a 4520/4720 as the used option. The closest 4720's were about 400 miles away, but "no problem" I thought, "I have an airplane".

So after a bunch more research, I narrowed it down to a specific machine near Flint, MI. There's a small airport 8 mi from the dealership. Perfect! So I busted my butt yesterday to get things done so I could run up there. I had my checkbook in hand. I transferred the money so I could buy it. I was in my truck on the way to the airport.

I called the dealership. Got a salesman, told him what I wanted, and asked if he was familiar with the airport. He said he was. I asked him to come pick me up.

"I can't come get you from the airport"

I was flabbergasted. I had not even considered this as a possibility. I bought my big 4WD tractor and my pickup in exactly this manner, and the salesmen were kind of excited about it and thought it was cool. This guy was unwilling to go 8 miles to make the sale. I wish I hadn't been so shocked so I could've asked for another salesman who A) had a car and B) felt like making a sale.

There are a few other possibilities, all about a 2 hour flight away. I went to the airport this morning to go look at a couple, and decided I didn't feel up to dealing with more people. I'm more irritated by this than I should be, but few things irk me more than people with zero willingness to help find a solution. So I decided to buy new. With 0% financing and a warranty. I hate having to deal with this modern diesel emissions nonsense, but apparently it's better than dealing with people.
 
CJones said:
I'm so sick of people, not just salesmen or other generic 'retail' workers, just people in general.
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me too, for the most part. me too. but I wouldn't say for the reason posted here. maybe the guy is a double amputee. maybe he doesn't have a car. maybe work/insurance won't allow him to do that. maybe it's just not his responsibility. but also maybe he can just do it. like say "hey, I'm going out for lunch" and then swing by and pick him up.
 
Jim K said:
. . . I called the dealership. Got a salesman, told him what I wanted, and asked if he was familiar with the airport. He said he was. I asked him to come pick me up.

"I can't come get you from the airport"

I was flabbergasted. I had not even considered this as a possibility. I bought my big 4WD tractor and my pickup in exactly this manner, and the salesmen were kind of excited about it and thought it was cool. This guy was unwilling to go 8 miles to make the sale. I wish I hadn't been so shocked so I could've asked for another salesman who A) had a car and B) felt like making a sale . . .
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I think my response would have been "Please put your manager on the phone." That probably would have solved the issue entirely.
 
The person above this ‘salesman’s’ pay grade likely has a different opinion on losing a big sale to inability to take a 5 min drive to get you.
 
eman1200 said:
me too, for the most part. me too. but I wouldn't say for the reason posted here. maybe the guy is a double amputee. maybe he doesn't have a car. maybe work/insurance won't allow him to do that. maybe it's just not his responsibility. but also maybe he can just do it. like say "hey, I'm going out for lunch" and then swing by and pick him up.
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Maybe he's Amish. But in any case I find it VERY hard to believe that there isn't someone there who has a friggin' car.

SoonerAviator said:
I think my response would have been "Please put your manager on the phone." That probably would have solved the issue entirely.
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Yep. Wish I had thought of that in the moment, but I was just so shocked by his complete lack of any help whatsoever I couldn't come up with anything to say, snarky or otherwise.

The other part of it is that buying something at a distance, as Sac alluded to, is going to involve shipping. If this guy won't drive across town to pick me up, you know he's not going to coordinate trucking for me, which creates yet another job I don't have time for (because I'm clearly too busy typing on POA). Even if I arrange the trucking, are they even going to help the driver get it loaded and make sure all the manuals and keys and parts go with it?
 
I thought this was going in a different direction seeing the title.

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Jim K said:
If this guy won't drive across town to pick me up, you know he's not going to coordinate trucking for me, which creates yet another job I don't have time for (because I'm clearly too busy typing on POA). Even if I arrange the trucking, are they even going to help the driver get it loaded and make sure all the manuals and keys and parts go with it?
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This is the biggest part, IMO. If he’s not willing or able to do a little extra work for a sale, he’s certainly not going to support the sale.
 
Jim K said:
Maybe he's Amish. But in any case I find it VERY hard to believe that there isn't someone there who has a friggin' car.


Yep. Wish I had thought of that in the moment, but I was just so shocked by his complete lack of any help whatsoever I couldn't come up with anything to say, snarky or otherwise.

The other part of it is that buying something at a distance, as Sac alluded to, is going to involve shipping. If this guy won't drive across town to pick me up, you know he's not going to coordinate trucking for me, which creates yet another job I don't have time for (because I'm clearly too busy typing on POA). Even if I arrange the trucking, are they even going to help the driver get it loaded and make sure all the manuals and keys and parts go with it?
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I have a feeling that his manager would have been more than happy to help arrange shipping. Sales guy is a moron. Hell, it'd be worth a call to them even though you aren't going to buy it now, to talk to the manager and let him know his sales guy just cost a sure-thing sale.
 
What would have bugged me wouldn't have been the refusal as much as that he didn't offer some other solution.

"I can't come get you from the airport but I'll be glad to send a cab to pick you up."
"I can't come get you from the airport but I can arrange for an Uber if you'll call me when you land."
"I can't come get you from the airport but I know they have a loaner car. Let me give you directions."
"I can't come get you from the airport but I can haul the tractor over there for you to examine."
"I can't come get you from the airport but let me get my manager on the phone and see what he can arrange."​

I understand there can be all sorts of reasons he can't come get you (doesn't have a driver's license, didn't drive to work that day, Amish, etc.) but unwillingness to offer any sort of help would be a deal breaker.

@Jim K , when you do buy a tractor, be sure to take a picture of it and send it to this dealership and include a nice note about the situation and why you went elsewhere.
 
It is surprising how hard it is to give some people money sometimes, isn't it?

My own recent micro-rant has to do with the VA. I don't have any educational benefits. I know that, but I needed a letter saying that. I went to the web site. No joy. I called the 800 number, who directed me back to the web site. Finally I walked into the local office. They gave me the 800 number. I said "Look, I am your dream customer. Most people come in looking for VA benefits, and you have to tell them they are not eligible for one reason or another. I am not looking for benefits, and I want you to tell me I am not eligible." Epilogue: third time wrestling with the web site worked, and received my letter in about 10 days.
 
I’m glad I’m not the only one thinking like @Jim K and @CJones . I hate to sound like I’m getting to be an old curmudgeon, but I am. I’m also thinking it’s starting to be a generational thing. My gen is retiring, the next generation is full-on employed and the 3rd one is coming online. Things are changing in the way people treat others. There’s good and bad and I don’t mean to detail the thread. I’m just getting old and not aligning 100% with the new (I think I am, better than most, but certainly not as easygoing about it as some others on the other side of 50).
 
I like to deal with people that are problem solvers, rather than those that are problem makers. I'd fly 2 hours to avoid this guy. I'm currently having my own issue with a company and their customer relations, but I'm still in the "so ****ed I can't talk about it" phase.
 
Van Johnston said:
It is surprising how hard it is to give some people money sometimes, isn't it?
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I have said this several times recently. Even back to my last tractor purchase. I took the day off work, went to tractor dealer to see tractor that was in stock with money in hand. Brought my trailer with an all to avoid a second round trip. "Well its not ready to go, it hasn't been PDIed." But its been on your lot for 3 months. "Well Johnny isn't here to process the sale". Here is money, give me tractor. "Well Cheryl needs to be here to..." :mad:
 
Why not just grab an Uber or taxi from the airport to the tractor dealership? There could be many reasons the guy wasn’t able to pick you up. Maybe he doesn’t drive to work an didn’t have a car, maybe the company is worried about liability if you go into an accident and doesn’t allow it, maybe he was the only salesman on the floor that day and couldn’t leave, etc. it seems a little presumptuous of you to bash a salesman or dealership because they were not willing to accommodate your unique method of transportation. How exactly were you planning on getting the tractor home if you bought it? If the dealership was far enough away to have to fly to they probably aren’t delivering it.
 
Were you going into D95 for it? That would've been funny cuz that's where I was supposed to go tomorrow. Got canceled though.
 
kmacht said:
Why not just grab an Uber or taxi from the airport to the tractor dealership? There could be many reasons the guy wasn’t able to pick you up. Maybe he doesn’t drive to work an didn’t have a car, maybe the company is worried about liability if you go into an accident and doesn’t allow it, maybe he was the only salesman on the floor that day and couldn’t leave, etc. it seems a little presumptuous of you to bash a salesman or dealership because they were not willing to accommodate your unique method of transportation. How exactly were you planning on getting the tractor home if you bought it? If the dealership was far enough away to have to fly to they probably aren’t delivering it.
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All addressed in previous posts.
 
kmacht said:
Why not just grab an Uber or taxi from the airport to the tractor dealership? There could be many reasons the guy wasn’t able to pick you up. Maybe he doesn’t drive to work an didn’t have a car, maybe the company is worried about liability if you go into an accident and doesn’t allow it, maybe he was the only salesman on the floor that day and couldn’t leave, etc. it seems a little presumptuous of you to bash a salesman or dealership because they were not willing to accommodate your unique method of transportation. How exactly were you planning on getting the tractor home if you bought it? If the dealership was far enough away to have to fly to they probably aren’t delivering it.
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I have a very short tolerance for salesman shenanigans. Usually stemming from the salesman not knowing the product they're selling. In this instance, what work did the salesman do to sell a tractor. Nothing. Jim knew what he wanted. Found it himself. And had money to spend. What was the salesman willing to do to take Jim's money? Nothing. He didn't say gee I can't get you, but I can send the kid washing down the machines. He was either unable or unwilling to do anything for a sale...why would you buy from them?
 
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Could have got you a deal on a bobcat tractor. No idea if they're worth a damn. The dealer is a tenant and I can guarantee the salesman would have picked you up. But you would have had to fly into c81...
 
Some people will use a rule, such as “no customers in your personal vehicle” as a crutch for their laziness. Some people see a rule as so black and white, they leave no room for basic thoughts of problem solving. Try dealing or working for the government if you’d like to see this in action regularly.
As an example, when I was hired by a government entity as a medical examiner, it included being sworn in as a deputy, which required a high school diploma. I personally haven’t seen my high school diploma in probably 25 years, but I have an undergraduate degree, a medical degree, I’m a licensed doctor, etc, yet they refused to swear me in at first because “the memo” says you can not be sworn in without showing a high school diploma. I showed my degrees and certifications to no avail. I had to literally refuse the job and walk out before the right people were notified I was being denied access over a Human Resources clerk’s demand for a high school diploma.
Back to the OPs story, I’m curious what tractor dealer this is as I’m local to the area.
 
There might have been an insurance issue but I know the feeling. Over the last decade+ every time I go to buy a big ticket item like a tractor or a car/truck/motorcycle/etc I really get the attitude from the dealers that they really don't care if I buy it or not. There are exceptions but it's sad that my expectations are so low that I'm impressed when someone so much as bothers to return a phone call.
 
TCABM said:
@Jim K was @NealRomeoGolf not able to get you a good enough discount on a Cat or does JD green run thru your veins?
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Ha. Used to run cat tractors with the guy I used to be partners with. The c9 engines were okay, although the huei system gave occasional trouble. Had a c13 that I really liked. Then we got a combine with a c9.3, and that pos was so much trouble that it broke up our partnership. Also the source of my fear of dpf systems.

I have a Deere dealer and a cih dealer that I like and am local to. I run a Deere 4WD and a CaseIH FWA. My requirements for the new one were 1)40 PTO HP 2)hydrostatic transmission 3) loader 4)F&R SCV's,and 5)small enough that it can be started and the pto operated from the ground. The cih dealer stocks and sells a crap-ton of Kubotas, but I have not seen a single red "Farmall" there in a decade, which says a lot to me. So it was basically down to green vs. orange. Kubota uses a weird "treadle" type control on their hydrostat tractors, which is probably fine if you're 5'2", but there's no way I could've lived with it. I'm not certain if any other brand make a tractor that size, or even where I would buy one locally. I also know that my JD dealer would be able to come up with a loaner if this things goes down during harvest.

Country Flier said:
Back to the OPs story, I’m curious what tractor dealer this is as I’m local to the area.
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Tri-County; Fenton location

I'm not sure about the Uber/taxi situation in Fenton, but I have my doubts. And the salesman didn't offer any advice either....

I definitely could've flown into Flint and used the courtesy car, but after the initial exchange, I had little desire to go to the extra effort, nor pay the landing fees.

NealRomeoGolf said:
Were you going into D95 for it?
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9G2

When I bought my 4WD tractor, the dealer picked me up, drove me to the farm where the tractor was located, drove me to the dealership to sign the papers, and drove me to a restaurant and bought me lunch. Then I flew home and the tractor showed up at my door (about 350mi) on his semi 2 days later. I thought an 8 mile ride across town was a small ask.

Anyway, signed papers on a new 4052M, loader, grapple, and tiller this afternoon. They will deliver it. Hopefully next week, but they'll have to put the SCV's on it as Deere ships them without.

@eman1200 I got "free" hats for all the kids....

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kmacht said:
Why not just grab an Uber or taxi from the airport to the tractor dealership? There could be many reasons the guy wasn’t able to pick you up. Maybe he doesn’t drive to work an didn’t have a car, maybe the company is worried about liability if you go into an accident and doesn’t allow it, maybe he was the only salesman on the floor that day and couldn’t leave, etc. it seems a little presumptuous of you to bash a salesman or dealership because they were not willing to accommodate your unique method of transportation. How exactly were you planning on getting the tractor home if you bought it? If the dealership was far enough away to have to fly to they probably aren’t delivering it.
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This isn't buying a lawn mower at Lowe's. This is a 5- figure purchase that will require title transfer and logistics to get it off the lot. People who are in agricultural sales don't have rules against picking up a customer who is buying a $20K+ piece of equipment. Whether that be getting in the company truck themselves or calling up a local taxi service. I bought a used car from a dealership in TN and flew into a major hub that was 45-minutes away from the car dealership. They sent a car service to pick me up at the airport free of charge. This is just an example of a salesman who either didn't care enough to make the effort, or wasn't intelligent enough to figure out that a very small hurdle was keeping him from a great sales day.
 
You may have dodged a bullet there. If a dealership is too lazy or too dumb to pick up a guy from the airport to sell a tractor, what kind of shape is the tractor going to be, and what other PITA things are they going to as part of the sale. Having the ability to fly is a decent indicator that you're serious about the purchase to any normal person.

When I run into unfriendly sales people I just laugh and move on. Or sometimes negotiate them down to their best price, then walk out and shop that price to a dealer that I actually like.

Congrats on the new tractor!
 
Racerx said:
Could have got you a deal on a bobcat tractor. No idea if they're worth a damn. The dealer is a tenant and I can guarantee the salesman would have picked you up. But you would have had to fly into c81...
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Bobcat tractors are built by Daedong, who also builds Kioti. Bobcat claims they're going to pivot to building them in-house, but with their history of the compact tractor market, I wouldn't count on it.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
Bobcat tractors are built by Daedong, who also builds Kioti. Bobcat claims they're going to pivot to building them in-house, but with their history of the compact tractor market, I wouldn't count on it.
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Daedong owns Kioti. Bobcat is owned by Doosan who contracts Daedong to build the tractors. Ive yet to actually work on a bobcat tractor. Just a dumb welder who has the local bobcat dealer as a tenant/neighbor.

The subcompact tractor market is a mess with joint ventures and shared architecture. Some john Deere stuff is yan mar, and not just the engines.

Regardless, finding a good dealer for that inevitable service is worth paying a little extra....or at least worth a few hats.
 
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