Always on ADS-B and Skybeacon/Tailbeacon

I’m curious about how many of the naysayers have flown very much with ADS-B and have seen the advantages. In flight weather and traffic just hasn’t appeared to be a bad thing to me.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Wow! Paranoia seems to be running rampant around here.
Click to expand...


paranoia
noun
para·noia | \ ˌper-ə-ˈnȯi-ə
a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others


Hmm ok, now we need to learn what irrational means

irrational
adjective
ir·ra·tio·nal | \ i-ˈra-sh(ə-)nəl
not rational: such as
a(1) : not endowed with reason or understanding
(2) : lacking usual or normal mental clarity or coherence
b : not governed by or according to reason

So seeing how I was able to cite case after case of the misuse of data, after like a minute of searching, demonstrating the prudence behind limiting the data one sends, and based on these bad events occurring enough to be semi common, that takes out the excessive part.

So really it’s not a issue of people being “paranoid” as much as you being naive


Just curious when did you first take the government as your lord and savor?

I’d understand your religious like faith in government and not having a issue being tracked if you were from NYC or china, but I find it strange coming from someone who says they are from TX, maybe auston?
 
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MBDiagMan said:
I’m curious about how many of the naysayers have flown very much with ADS-B and have seen the advantages. In flight weather and traffic just hasn’t appeared to be a bad thing to me.
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I've flown with ADS-B for the past ~45 days, and it's done zip for me. Cost me a quarter of the value of the airplane.

Or was I supposed to spend more to get the ADS-B in stuff as well? I generally fly within 100 miles of my home airport (weather not an issue). For using to for traffic, well, I'd need a sunlight-readable Ipad (open cockpit airplane), ROOM to install it (there ain't any), and don't have an intercom for the receiver to send me audible warnings.

ADS-B switch is the red one on the left.
adsb_panel.jpg

Ron Wanttaja
 
Not much room in my plane either, but a $200 Scout + my phone + a bluetooth headset got me aural traffic alerts.
 
GeorgeC said:
Not much room in my plane either, but a $200 Scout + my phone + a bluetooth headset got me aural traffic alerts.
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I'm already using ear buds for my radio headset (at least in the summer months). Couldn't fit a second set of earbuds into my ear-hole. The single set and a homebuilt mike carrier fit nicely under my flying helmet.
selfie_goggles.jpg

Ron Wanttaja
 
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MBDiagMan said:
Wow! Paranoia seems to be running rampant around here.
Click to expand...

Really? Because some folks don't want to continually broadcast a position associated with their identity to the world? That's no one's friggin' business but their own, if they choose so.

Tell you what. You aren't using your real name here. Why don't you unmask yourself and we'll work on a widget together to continually broadcast your "find my iPhone" or equivalent location on this google searchable open forum.

If you're OK with that, good for you.

But why mock those who value their privacy?
 
If the goal behind ADSB was... and the "S" in it stood for.... safety ... would not transmitting location, altitude, and size/weight be sufficient for traffic separation? For the ultimate in safety, perhaps there could be a button similar to the "ident" button that would, in an emergency, allow you to transmit your unique identification data for search, rescue, and notification purposes. The "S" stands for "surveillance"... keeping track of who you are and what you are doing. That is not the function nor purview of the US government over law-abiding citizens. As I've said before, the issue is with those who allow themselves to be surveilled.. that is your choice as a citizen, and I take no issue with those who voluntarily do so, as I am now doing involuntarily as I regularly fly within rule airspace. The issue is that those who do NOT wish to be surveilled are not given the same choice. It has nothing to do with paranoia, hiding anything, nor anything else nefarious. It's a matter of privacy, pure and simple. Some folks value privacy more than others. Those that don't understand that feeling can't have it explained to them, and those of us who DO value privacy have a hard time understanding why some don't. Just different folks, is all.

The government, Google, or anyone else should not be able to make accessing a private, law-abiding citizen's current location public without expressed permission from that citizen, and forcing the citizen to give permission doesn't make it any less onerous.
 
MarkH said:
Reading about ADS-B options leads to a question about the nav light ADSB solutions.
As I understand, if ADSB is installed it must be on, but nav lights are on a switch. How is this being handled in installations?
Is it just placarded, is the switch being bypassed, or is there some other solution?
Click to expand...

southallb said:
I am thinking of going with the Tail Beacon, but wiring it to the rotating beacon power...dont want to run with nav lights on all the time.
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I ran an extra-power wire to the tail on this year's annual/conditional so that the tail beacon will be on and powered by itself. My tail light is also a strobe which requires TWO power sources and now have this one separate. In short, the NAVs can be turned off (excluding the tail) which will be full time AND have the strobe all functioning independent (R-L-Rear).

MBDiagMan said:
What good does it do if turned off?
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Supposed to leave ADSB tailbeacon ON at all times AC is operated once it is installed. Some don't like the idea of having NAV lights running ALL the time. You could go to LED NAV lights if worried about burning them out for being full-time ON.

Anonymous mode is available on Uavionix devices.
 
James331 said:
Afraid of, lolz
Not really, just a student of history.

By the way I don’t see where you posted the info I (a random dude who’s just curious) asked for? Afraid?


It comes down to what my life and way of life is worth, and a cost to benefit.

My life and way of life is worth TONS to me

There are some risks broadcasting where my plane and likely self/loved ones are for any private or public crook who might want to know, not a huge risk but a risk, now there is ZERO benefit for me to transmit my N number. Z E R O

You have zero valid reasons to need the personal info for a traffic target.

I mean how many people on here post about getting some random person in some podunk airport trying to scam them out of money for “registration” or some such?

If you read a little history, just say 20th century, big government has been the biggest risk and expense most citizens have in their lives, more so than “mass shooters” or “terrorists” and yet folks get all confused when someone says something is non of anyones damn business, all while turning a blind eye to...say....the TSA feeling your grand kids balls. Priorities lol



Yeah, trust these people, what’s the worse that could happen
http://johnandmartha.kingschools.com/2010/08/31/our-gunpoint-at-the-airport-ordeal-2/

Or this one

Or how about this that keeps happening

6-AEFDE75-9-B33-4368-86-D1-02487-C7-C6277.png



So no, I don’t want to send more data to be misused in databases that never go away, or really have anyone who I don’t think needs to know, knowing where I am or where I am going.
Sure I can’t shield myself and my loved ones from all of it, but I can do the best I can to minimize how much of a target I make myself, I can also remind folks who take the gov as their lord and savor of these things they seem to often forget.
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Point well taken. I’ll remember that the next time I go to Peru.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Point well taken. I’ll remember that the next time I go to Peru.
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Or Santa Barbara, that’s where the kings had guns pointed at them, or etc etc

You really think the US doesn’t do bad things with data? Lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present)

But if you think it’s no big deal, try the other side of the sword and go ask a cop or senator if you can attach a tracker to their personal vehicle, I’ll just wait here to hear back on that lol
 
James331 said:
paranoia
noun
para·noia | \ ˌper-ə-ˈnȯi-ə
a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others


Hmm ok, now we need to learn what irrational means

irrational
adjective
ir·ra·tio·nal | \ i-ˈra-sh(ə-)nəl
not rational: such as
a(1) : not endowed with reason or understanding
(2) : lacking usual or normal mental clarity or coherence
b : not governed by or according to reason

So seeing how I was able to cite case after case of the misuse of data, after like a minute of searching, demonstrating the prudence behind limiting the data one sends, and based on these bad events occurring enough to be semi common, that takes out the excessive part.

So really it’s not a issue of people being “paranoid” as much as you being naive


Just curious when did you first take the government as your lord and savor?

I’d understand your religious like faith in government and not having a issue being tracked if you were from NYC or china, but I find it strange coming from someone who says they are from TX, maybe auston?
Click to expand...

I am not naive and I’m not worried in the least. I have nothing to hide so I have nothing to fear.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I am not naive and I’m not worried in the least. I have nothing to hide so I have nothing to fear.
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Lol, riiiight, history would beg to differ

You really should read up on history, 20th century to now.
 
wanttaja said:
I've flown with ADS-B for the past ~45 days, and it's done zip for me. Cost me a quarter of the value of the airplane.

Or was I supposed to spend more to get the ADS-B in stuff as well? I generally fly within 100 miles of my home airport (weather not an issue). For using to for traffic, well, I'd need a sunlight-readable Ipad (open cockpit airplane), ROOM to install it (there ain't any), and don't have an intercom for the receiver to send me audible warnings.

ADS-B switch is the red one on the left.
adsb_panel.jpg

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

It has done nothing for you that you know of. Since you don’t have IN, for all you know you had a near miss that was avoided. Depending upon where you fly it’s not likely but it’s possible and you have no way to know for sure that it didn’t happen.

I recently put a fresh engine in my Cessna and did a lot of flight above the airport doing engine break in. It gave me a really good opportunity to get experience with ADS-B both out and in. I had several instances where I called planes by tail number and coordinated with them. Those without it I could see thanks to ADS-R, but I didn’t know their tail number. One plane called me by tail number which they knew because I have out.

Nothing substitutes for diligent eyes and a swivel neck, but ADS-B is a useful and welcome tool.
 
MBDiagMan said:
What history? Be specific.

BTW, have you spent much time flying with both IN and OUT?
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Already linked a good bit of it, maybe read up on democide, battle of Athens,etc etc

And yes, flown without any ADSB, or even a transponder and all the way up to full in and out.
 
I read quite a lot, but the difference between you and I is how we approach life and how we feel about our faith and our fellow man.

I am sincere when I offer my best wishes for you and your cynicism. I wish you all the best and if you expect it, you will get it.

Warmest regards
 
MBDiagMan said:
I read quite a lot, but the difference between you and I is how we approach life and how we feel about our faith and our fellow man.

I am sincere when I offer my best wishes for you and your cynicism. I wish you all the best and if you expect it, you will get it.

Warmest regards
Click to expand...

I have no cynicism, I just don’t have “faith” in government based on history, I’m not trying to be a cynic, it’s more like a warning a kid not to put the fork in the power outlet.
 
Putting my tinfoil hat aside for a moment, everyone does realize that your tail number is in the system pretty much anytime you are IFR or request radar advisories, right? ADS-B or not. Has been that way for a while.
 
chemgeek said:
Putting my tinfoil hat aside for a moment, everyone does realize that your tail number is in the system pretty much anytime you are IFR or request radar advisories, right? ADS-B or not. Has been that way for a while.
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Yes, that’s why it shows up in flightaware even without ADS-B. If you don’t want your tail number exposed, don’t fly IFR or maybe even flight following.
 
Unfortunately I don’t have faith in the government either. I do, however, place my faith in someone at a higher pay grade. So, no worries here.
 
chemgeek said:
Putting my tinfoil hat aside for a moment, everyone does realize that your tail number is in the system pretty much anytime you are IFR or request radar advisories, right? ADS-B or not. Has been that way for a while.
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the-boiling-frog-syndrome.jpg


The boiling frog is a fable describing a frog being slowly boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is put suddenly into boiling water, it will jump out, but if the frog is put in tepid water which is then brought to a boil slowly, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to or be aware of sinister threats that arise gradually rather than suddenly.
 
I'm not going to waste brain cells worrying about all the nebulous nefarious nemeses deriving from ADS-B use. It's too stressful. Fly. Be happy.
 
James331 said:
the-boiling-frog-syndrome.jpg


The boiling frog is a fable describing a frog being slowly boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is put suddenly into boiling water, it will jump out, but if the frog is put in tepid water which is then brought to a boil slowly, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to or be aware of sinister threats that arise gradually rather than suddenly.
Click to expand...
You forgot the rest of the article:
...according to contemporary biologists the premise is false: a frog that is gradually heated will jump out. Indeed, thermoregulation by changing location is a fundamentally necessary survival strategy for frogs and other ectotherms.
 
asicer said:
You forgot the rest of the article:
...according to contemporary biologists the premise is false: a frog that is gradually heated will jump out. Indeed, thermoregulation by changing location is a fundamentally necessary survival strategy for frogs and other ectotherms.
Click to expand...


You know it’s not really about cooking frogs right?
 
James331 said:
You know it’s not really about cooking frogs right?
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Yes, but from even further along in the article:
...using the story is acceptable if the writer points out that it is not literally true.
 
MBDiagMan said:
It has done nothing for you that you know of. Since you don’t have IN, for all you know you had a near miss that was avoided. Depending upon where you fly it’s not likely but it’s possible and you have no way to know for sure that it didn’t happen.
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You sound like my Sunday School teacher. "Maybe your guardian angel didn't do anything obvious, but he's looking out for you, and kept bad things from happening."

Or a chain letter. "Send $2,000 to Aircraft Spruce, and good luck will follow you in your flying endeavors."

On the PLUS side, just think of all those aircraft upholstery shops adding to their workload by installing curtains on aircraft windows, since the owners don't figure they need to look out them any more.

Homebuilts suffer 2.3 midairs per year, and more than a third of those involve aircraft flying in formation. I *like* them odds.

Admittedly, you can't see beans out of the average GA aircraft. I don't object to people using crutches like ADS-B; what I *do* object to is being forced to pay for their crutches.
landing2.jpg

Ron Wanttaja
 
MBDiagMan said:
I have found tail number being displayed to be handy a few times. When they are operating of the same airport, they are usually on the same frequency. You can call them by tail number and coordinate. If you’re not broadcasting you position and altitude, what good could it possibly do? I’m not sure that you have a good grasp on what ADS-B does and how it works.

My tail number being broadcast for the purpose of traffic control is no problem for me. Of course I am not paranoid or have anything to hide.

When you find and show me that from my tail number someone can determine the information you indicate, then I will consider it a problem. Until then I will continue being happy with information that helps me stay clear of other planes.
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Although I can see value in seeing traffic on a screen before I see it out the window, I can't fathom looking at my iPad screen long enough, while in the pattern, to get N numbers for radio calls. When I'm at the airport, my eyes are OUTSIDE the plane.
 
I love the I have nothing to hide guys. You going to let the .gov I come search your house? Your car? anytime they want? After all you have nothing to hide. The Jews in Germany had nothing to hide either but hey government always has people's best interest in mind. What could possibly go wrong.
 
wanttaja said:
You sound like my Sunday School teacher. "Maybe your guardian angel didn't do anything obvious, but he's looking out for you, and kept bad things from happening."

Or a chain letter. "Send $2,000 to Aircraft Spruce, and good luck will follow you in your flying endeavors."

On the PLUS side, just think of all those aircraft upholstery shops adding to their workload by installing curtains on aircraft windows, since the owners don't figure they need to look out them any more.

Homebuilts suffer 2.3 midairs per year, and more than a third of those involve aircraft flying in formation. I *like* them odds.

Admittedly, you can't see beans out of the average GA aircraft. I don't object to people using crutches like ADS-B; what I *do* object to is being forced to pay for their crutches.
landing2.jpg

Ron Wanttaja
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Crutch? If you’re using it for a crutch you shouldn’t be flying. If you were using a real crutch would you be airworthy?

It is, however, another useful tool.

I agree with the other poster that once in the pattern you shouldn’t pay any attention to it. I’m too busy with everything else while in the pattern myself.

BTW, you didn’t pay the bill for MY transponders.
 
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DFH65 said:
I love the I have nothing to hide guys. You going to let the .gov I come search your house? Your car? anytime they want? After all you have nothing to hide. The Jews in Germany had nothing to hide either but hey government always has people's best interest in mind. What could possibly go wrong.
Click to expand...

I agree with this fundamental, but you are taking it too far. ADS-Bis the same as your house being searched? I think paranoia might be entering into this one too.
 
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Baby steps my friend baby steps. It's called playing the long game. Today it's hey look at this whiz bang gadgetry tomorrow it's we saw you flying at 999' over a congested area turn in your cert. and oh by the way you owe us $100 bucks for that hour you flew in OUR skies and $50 for your carbon assessment tax.
 
DFH65 said:
Baby steps my friend baby steps. It's called playing the long game. Today it's hey look at this whiz bang gadgetry tomorrow it's we saw you flying at 999' over a congested area turn in your cert. and oh by the way you owe us $100 bucks for that hour you flew in OUR skies and $50 for your carbon assessment tax.
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The idea of forcing everyone through metal detectors to enter a plane, or a sporting event, or a federal building, would have been outrageous 50 years ago. Now people shrug and say "safety".

Going after that "999' over congested area" pilot, in the name of safety? I could see that happening sooner rather than later.
 
James331 said:
Seeing I work in the industry I’d wager I get it better than you probably do, again position is fine but zero reason to send my tailnumber.
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Isn't the cat already out of the bag if I'm flying with flight following or on an IFR flight plan? I already am broadcasting my tail number any time I talk to ATC. You can track my tail number on Flight Aware. Is this substantially different?
 
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Does anyone know of any pilot who’s had an action against him for disabling ADS-B while in airspace that doesn’t require ADS-B?
 
The mandate has nothing to do with the question. Lots of planes are flying with ABS-B installed and sometimes it gets turned off, which is not allowed in the regulations. Has anyone experienced any repercussions?
 
Stewartb said:
Does anyone know of any pilot who’s had an action against him for disabling ADS-B while in airspace that doesn’t require ADS-B?
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Out of curiosity, who at the FAA uses that information in real time? Centers, towers, etc.? Or is the ADS-B information primarily used in post-processing?

Other than temporary towers set up for the Arlington Fly In, I haven't spoken to an FAA facility for about twenty years. Seems to me that the primary threat if I *don't* turn mine on is a fellow pilot miffed because I don't show up on his magic box.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Do you have ADS-B installed? Is it required for your flying?
 
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