Alternatives to Zip Ties in Engine Compartment

SoCal 182 Driver

SoCal 182 Driver

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SoCal 182 Driver
Friends - I'm having a new engine installed in my 182. The mechanic just sent me some pictures, and I see at least one zip-tie on the freshly painted motor mount. :oops:

I've been told that zip-ties on a motor mount is a no-no. What are good alternatives to zip-ties in the engine compartment?

Thanks!
 
Adel clamps. I'm atoning for that sin at annual right now.

In a pinch, griplock ties are nicer than regular zip ties.
 
GeorgeC said:
Adel clamps. I'm atoning for that sin at annual right now.
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I thought of that, but how do you use Adel clamps to hold down wires? Just wrap the clamp around the wires, and tighten?
 
Adels, but be sure to get the proper ones for high temps, and fuel/oil resistance.
 
Adel clamps are the only correct answer. Yet there are lot of certificated aircraft with zip ties on the motor mounts.

Yes, there are people who think they are ok but I don't get why they don't take a couple of extra minutes to use adels. They aren't expensive, and can be a pita to put on, but it's just not that big of a deal to do it right.

Also, I would especially not accept a zip tie on a freshly painted motor mount. It might not damage a powder coat finish much, but if it's just spray paint it will certainly damage the paint in a short time.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
I thought of that, but how do you use Adel clamps to hold down wires? Just wrap the clamp around the wires, and tighten?
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You use two adels. One goes around the mount and the screw also holds a smaller Adel that grips the wires. Standard practice.
 
GeorgeC said:
Adel clamps. I'm atoning for that sin at annual right now.

In a pinch, griplock ties are nicer than regular zip ties.
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+1
Adel clamps, doubled up if needed.
Examples here: https://www.kitplanes.com/tidy-up-with-adel-clamps/
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runner up
griplockties.com

Home

Rubber-Lined Padded Releasable Higher Temp UV Protected. Solving the problems of weak damaging old style zip ties that often damage wires. Zip Ties Rubber Lined | United States | GripLockTies By LockRight LLC
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Lndwarrior said:
Also, I would especially not accept a zip tie on a freshly painted motor mount. It might not damage a powder coat finish much, but if it's just spray paint it will certainly damage the paint in a short time.
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It's POR-15, which is many times tougher than regular spray paint. Still, I would prefer not to have zip-times on the motor mount.
 
Lndwarrior said:
You use two adels. One goes around the mount and the screw also holds a smaller Adel that grips the wires. Standard practice.
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I'm aware of that configuration, but I suspect that the Adel holding the wires would have to be tiny. Definitely worth a conversation with the mechanic, however.
 
For small wires, these zip-ties can be added to the adel bolt, if the bolt is small enough.

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or oblong double hole washers
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SoCal 182 Driver said:
It's POR-15, which is many times tougher than regular spray paint. Still, I would prefer not to have zip-times on the motor mount.
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POR-15? Is that stuff still around? It was proven to be crap on car restorations 20 years ago. It holds moisture underneath and causes corrosion to the base metal IMO and experience with it. Then it flakes off like the skin off a cicada.
Maybe there is something different about it now? but I wouldn't use it my plane.
 
Gary Ward said:
Then it flakes off like the skin off a cicada.
Maybe there is something different about it now? but I wouldn't use it my plane.
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I've had good luck with it in the past. This is their high-temp version. It's a done deal at this point. The mount is installed and the engine is hung.
 
SoCal 182 Driver said:
I'm aware of that configuration, but I suspect that the Adel holding the wires would have to be tiny. Definitely worth a conversation with the mechanic, however.
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Forms of Adel clamps are available to hold as small as a single 22 ga. wire.
 
What's wrong with zip ties? I bet I have 50 of them on my engine mount
 
Another way to prevent zip ties from abrading motor mounts is to wrap the motor mount in the area you intend to place a tie with a couple layers of silicone tape. Then zip tie at that location by actually using two ties. One zipped around the wires and also through the loop made in the second tie that is positioned over the tape and around the motor mount. Once the wire zip tie is tightened, then cinch down the one in place over the tape/motor mount. Use zip ties that are rated for high temp applications.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
What's wrong with zip ties? I bet I have 50 of them on my engine mount
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As they age, they harden and act like either a grinder wheel or a saw blade on the mount tubing. Grit and grime get under them and becomes embedded in the inner surface of the plastic, turning it into a pretty good facsimile of a grinding wheel, sandpaper or a saw blade.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
What's wrong with zip ties? I bet I have 50 of them on my engine mount
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Bryan - next time you are under the cowl, snip off an existing zip tie and look closely underneath where it was attached. You might find that the metal is grooved where the zip tie was riding on it. That groove in the engine mount could be a future failure point and airworthiness consideration. I’m replacing mine a little at a time (most of mine had tape underneath and were fine, the others had only gotten into the paint).
 
Koroseal Lacing Cord was the standard years ago.

Sorta looks like black shoe laces.
 
And this is news to me. I'm going to go remove all of mine today
 
They also remove the paint and trap moisture which will cause rust. Not to mention turn the engine compartment into a torture device for your arms if the ends aren't cut cleanly.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
And this is news to me. I'm going to go remove all of mine today
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These are handy if you want to do the back-to-back thing with the doobers commonly referred to as Adel clamps.
Keeping the pokey thing that is commonly referred to as an awl sharp is important so that it can easily penetrate your fingers as you work.
Alternate methods were described in some other thread that I am too lazy to search for.

I would note that if the paint under yea olde zippe tie is not worn through, it doesn't seem likely that the engine mount tube is damaged. I had about a 1/4 bazzilion zip ties on the engine mount on my ride that I have mostly replaced over time (I think there is one left) and didn't note any damage anywhere.
 
Adel clamps have been using them on boats also.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
What's wrong with zip ties? I bet I have 50 of them on my engine mount
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Replacing zip ties counts as "Replacement of nonstructural standard fasteners incidental to operations" under part 43 appendix A (Preventive maintenance), right?
 
Relative motion is your enemy. If you prevent relative motion between the ziptie and the structure (or whatever), you won't experience wear. I've had zipties securing wires on the RV-6 for >20 years. When I pulled the engine mount to perform a service bulletin, I pulled off a number of 20+ year old zipties and a number of much newer ones. No wear under any of 'em because I'd made the effort to prevent the wires from tugging on the zipties. Basically by using an adel clamp to capture the wire(s) as they transition from the engine to airframe(and serve as the buffer), then using zipties downstream.
 
asicer said:
Replacing zip ties counts as "Replacement of nonstructural standard fasteners incidental to operations" under part 43 appendix A (Preventive maintenance), right?
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Yes along with Adels.
 
Stewartb said:
GripLock Ties. Releasable and reusable, too.
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I bought a batch when they first came out and found that over time the silicone cushion strips separate from the base so I never bothered with them again. Also never really found a need for the reusability unless it's some sort of temporary restraint and you don't mind the long end of the tie sticking out into space.
 
It's not uncommon to see silicone tape (or whatever high-temp tape) underneath a clamp as even clamps will wear a bit over time.
 
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