Airventure Parking Rant

When on the bus to the Seaplane base I was amazed at how far south the South 40 went and kept on going. I'm sure they'll eventually add some real shower houses/toilets and a S40 Cafe vs the food truck to try to compete with the N40 but it's not the same to me. I can't imagine Oshkosh without being near all the action on 9/27 and still being able to watch the airshow under the wing with beer in hand.
Eventually I'll have to fly in on the Wednesday before to get a N40 spot anywhere near the green shower house.
 
Grum.Man said:
I'm pretty sure they purposely make it difficult to minimize the number of planes coming and going. I couldn't imagine leaving and having to come back.
Click to expand...

I used to do it frequently.

I'd pick people who were coming up for the first time up in Milwaukee and fly them into the show because who wants to drive to a fly-in?
I'd buy parts for club planes and fly them down to Madison.
I'd fly family members in and out for the day.

I'd just add my row number to my GAC sign and they'd park me back where I was every time... And then they started being a pain in the ass about it, and after a guy damn near rode his moped through my spinning prop to see my sign and forced me to shut down unexpectedly, and then had the audacity to call on the radio and have another moped-er drive to my row to ensure there was actually a tent without an airplane there, I gave up. Yet another reason to camp in Scholler and park in GAP, where I don't need to worry about where I park when I come back.

Grum.Man said:
I didn't go this year but still got the arrival text updates and looked at flight tracking occasionally. Really cemented my desire to never fly in again.
Click to expand...

:confused2:

This year was smoother than it's been in a while! Parking never filled up. It made me want to bring the plane in again next year.

Philip Heink said:
OTOH, we were on the NE side of MSN's Charlie on Sunday at 5:45 CDT, nervously heading toward the stagnation point of triangles where planes were getting in line, when the MSN approach controller announced that the Fisk arrival was closing again. We made a bee-line to FLD and camped there thinking we try the Fisk arrival again in the morning. The camping (and people) at FLD was so pleasant that we stayed there the rest of the week and I'd consider camping there again next year on purpose.
Click to expand...

I have heard different versions of that story MANY times. There is a contingent that goes to FLD every year. It's not for me, but if you don't want to be in the hustle and bustle 24/7, places like FLD and the Seaplane Base would be great places to camp.
 
I’d give the in and out of the north 40 a solid 14 out of 17. Saturday morning they really didn’t want to negotiate, but I finally found the guy that parked me the first time and he had me heading to my spot. A couple other hops were no problem outside of the longer arrival.

Will probably keep mixing it up for future shows between Scholler, N40, but want to wrangle a few people and rent a house. I miss having campfires when in the 40. I miss the overhead traffic and view of 27 when I am not there.
 
I got a lot of complaints about a lady who I think was running the Flight Line in Vintage most of the time. I personally heard her be very rude to people for no reason. At times, it seemed nobody working the Flight Line could do anything right.

She yelled at one guy, "Are you just going to leave your landing light on all day?" He smiled and asked what difference it made to her! Now if she'd said, "Your master is still on", it might have gone over better.

At one point she came off the line on her scooter and you could tell she was mad. She started yelling at people who had tents out past the tail of their airplanes. She asked them if they understood that they didn't want to turn any planes away and they were parking planes at the ends of the rows as the OP mentioned. That's okay, except in this case, it was on one of the few rows in Vintage where the airplanes were tail to tail. I waited until she was alone and walked over and thanked her for the hard work she was doing. When she smiled, I pointed out that there was no room to get a plane down this row anyway. She gave me a look, shook her head, and rode off!
 
Lowflynjack said:
I got a lot of complaints about a lady who I think was running the Flight Line in Vintage most of the time. I personally heard her be very rude to people for no reason. At times, it seemed nobody working the Flight Line could do anything right.

She yelled at one guy, "Are you just going to leave your landing light on all day?" He smiled and asked what difference it made to her! Now if she'd said, "Your master is still on", it might have gone over better.

At one point she came off the line on her scooter and you could tell she was mad. She started yelling at people who had tents out past the tail of their airplanes. She asked them if they understood that they didn't want to turn any planes away and they were parking planes at the ends of the rows as the OP mentioned. That's okay, except in this case, it was on one of the few rows in Vintage where the airplanes were tail to tail. I waited until she was alone and walked over and thanked her for the hard work she was doing. When she smiled, I pointed out that there was no room to get a plane down this row anyway. She gave me a look, shook her head, and rode off!
Click to expand...

99.999999% of the volunteers at OSH are AMAZING and I know that they are doing their absolute best to keep a happy face on in the midst of constant chaos. They are the only way the show stays functioning and I am grateful for the time they put in.

With that said... I was less than impressed with the marshallers that were working in HBC this year - both coming in on Monday and going out on Thursday. They seemed to be annoyed at all these stupid airplanes that keep wanting to park in their area. After I taxied off the concrete, the grass was rough and my nose was bouncing quite a bit, so I was going pretty slow. The guy stood up on his scooter and started waving his arms at me like I was wasting his time or something. Dad had a similar experience taxiing in right behind me with a different guy on his scooter that was annoyed at him not wanting to put his prop in the dirt. When we got out of the planes, none of the 4-5 marshallers that were standing around even bothered to say 'Hello' - I don't expect confetti and a song, but at least acknowledge that I'm standing there and need to know where to register, etc. Not sure if they had had a bad morning or what, but it was probably the least comfortable part of the entire arrival (and that includes getting stuck behind a Taylorcraft at Ripon doing ~70kts).
 
CJones said:
99.999999% of the volunteers at OSH are AMAZING and I know that they are doing their absolute best to keep a happy face on in the midst of constant chaos. They are the only way the show stays functioning and I am grateful for the time they put in.

With that said... I was less than impressed with the marshallers that were working in HBC this year - both coming in on Monday and going out on Thursday. They seemed to be annoyed at all these stupid airplanes that keep wanting to park in their area. After I taxied off the concrete, the grass was rough and my nose was bouncing quite a bit, so I was going pretty slow. The guy stood up on his scooter and started waving his arms at me like I was wasting his time or something. Dad had a similar experience taxiing in right behind me with a different guy on his scooter that was annoyed at him not wanting to put his prop in the dirt. When we got out of the planes, none of the 4-5 marshallers that were standing around even bothered to say 'Hello' - I don't expect confetti and a song, but at least acknowledge that I'm standing there and need to know where to register, etc. Not sure if they had had a bad morning or what, but it was probably the least comfortable part of the entire arrival (and that includes getting stuck behind a Taylorcraft at Ripon doing ~70kts).
Click to expand...

I had sort of an issue with the marshallers on Friday the 23rd coming into HBP. I posted about it on the EAA forum where the HBP marshaling supervisor chimed so won't go into detail here, but the upshot was less than a friendly reception after I stopped short in my parking spot and shut down so I could pull the plane the final 3 feet forward onto boards. And no welcome to Oshkosh... definitely a departure in attitude from previous years.
 
Last edited:
I’m thinking of doing the camper thing next year. Last year I went to Green Bay and took a bus to the gate. That option was not available this year. With the prices at Appleton and Fon du lac constantly increasing there aren’t that many inexpensive option’s remaining.
 
I missed the beginning of this, but I work in Vintage parking and the Magoo end capping is a way to keep us from turning people away. We were parking people down in the South 40 (GAC annex) this year as well as putting parkers over the burn line. Things will get a little better when they kick the ultralights across the road in a few years, but don't expect it to change for 2023.

Take comfort in that it's not as bad as the north40 where they T everybody in.
 
flyingron said:
I missed the beginning of this, but I work in Vintage parking and the Magoo end capping is a way to keep us from turning people away. We were parking people down in the South 40 (GAC annex) this year as well as putting parkers over the burn line. Things will get a little better when they kick the ultralights across the road in a few years, but don't expect it to change for 2023.

Take comfort in that it's not as bad as the north40 where they T everybody in.
Click to expand...

I think I'd rather you T everyone than block anyone who happens to be near the end. I've camped in the north 40 several times and never minded the T... What's the perceived drawback of it?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I think I'd rather you T everyone than block anyone who happens to be near the end. I've camped in the north 40 several times and never minded the T... What's the perceived drawback of it?
Click to expand...
Less room for tents and stuff. Non-T, you’ve got both sides of your plane to work with. T’d up it is strongly encouraged to stick to one side as your neighbor is on the other. And If they spaced the T’d planes nicely, it would be a less big deal. Last year, my wingtips were about a 2 feet apart from the neighbor which really forced some creative camping layouts. I think the trick is, as soon as you are parked, throw some crap out of the baggage compartment to encourage a little more space between planes.
 
I was thinking about doing the RV thing. Looks like even a small RV is going to run just south of 2 grand. Not happening.
 
flyingron said:
Things will get a little better when they kick the ultralights across the road in a few years, but don't expect it to change for 2023.
Click to expand...

Tell me more about that? I might be bummed by this change. I like the ultralight setup as it is. It's a very accessible change of topic at an end of the field that gets pretty monotonous.
 
They've bought up a bunch of land on the other side of Knapp street. The idea is to get the end of the UL runway further from the 18/36. I would suspect they'll close Knapp down during the show from the diagonal road down a few blocks to let people cross over. I'm told it's not going to be ready for next year.
 
Probably a good spot for those people.....lol :D

I think there's also a rotorcraft area over there too....seen a bunch of those parked there. Like that for the last couple years.
 
it's been a few years since I was at Oshkosh...but seems like it's similar to Sun n Fun in that rotorcraft have a very small presence there. I'm a little surprised by that....only a little, but still
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Probably a good spot for those people.....lol :D

I think there's also a rotorcraft area over there too....seen a bunch of those parked there. Like that for the last couple years.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they were the first to move.
 
Brad W said:
it's been a few years since I was at Oshkosh...but seems like it's similar to Sun n Fun in that rotorcraft have a very small presence there. I'm a little surprised by that....only a little, but still
Click to expand...
I think that's fair. Then again, rotorcraft are but a small part of GA.
 
Brad W said:
I'm a little surprised by that....only a little, but still
Click to expand...
Why? Helicopters are vastly more expensive to operate, and they are not cross country machines. So by extension the few that are in private ownership, likely aren't flying cross country to OSH.
 
flyingron said:
They've bought up a bunch of land on the other side of Knapp street. The idea is to get the end of the UL runway further from the 18/36. I would suspect they'll close Knapp down during the show from the diagonal road down a few blocks to let people cross over. I'm told it's not going to be ready for next year.
Click to expand...

Yup. I'm bummed. Thanks for the info though.
 
172andyou said:
Yup. I'm bummed. Thanks for the info though.
Click to expand...

The EAA has the goal of not turning away any airplanes by 2024. In 2021, we were closed to GA for a while and were very close to shutting down vintage. In 2022, Vintage filled up, but GAC had more reclaimed space down south we diverted some people to in addition to parking some day trippers in places where you have to be escorted in and out of. The other change in Vintage land this year is that no reserving of spaces (i.e., marking out a space with credentials without actually parking an airplane) was permitted on the east side of Wittman road. No spaces without planes will be permitted at all anywhere in Vintage (exception made for brief absences to go flying or to aircraft repair, etc...). This, along with the decision to not have a "parking only, no camping area" up at the north end of Vintage a few years back is designed to get around people taxiing past long empty rows of spaces while they are directed south.

The only things left are the first few rows south of the Comm center for special exhibits/past grands, etc.. and the pre-arranged type club parking west of Wittman between Aircraft Repair and the current Ultralight area (it was full of Bonanzas this year).
 
that "staking out airplane space" always seemed odd to me. Should be first come, first served.
And as someone who has volunteered to park/guide planes as OSH before, they are volunteers. Those that are griping that you don't get a gold star for showing up should try volunteering sometime.
 
THey first came, bought and paid for the space ($xx/day to the end of the show) but then left. It's pretty much the way Scholler and Vintage has been done for decades.

Of course, I've not paid for a wristband or campsite for years, donating a few hundred hours of labor. I also get there a week before the show starts so I get my choice of parkign.
 
flyingron said:
The EAA has the goal of not turning away any airplanes by 2024. In 2021, we were closed to GA for a while and were very close to shutting down vintage. In 2022, Vintage filled up, but GAC had more reclaimed space down south we diverted some people to in addition to parking some day trippers in places where you have to be escorted in and out of. The other change in Vintage land this year is that no reserving of spaces (i.e., marking out a space with credentials without actually parking an airplane) was permitted on the east side of Wittman road. No spaces without planes will be permitted at all anywhere in Vintage (exception made for brief absences to go flying or to aircraft repair, etc...). This, along with the decision to not have a "parking only, no camping area" up at the north end of Vintage a few years back is designed to get around people taxiing past long empty rows of spaces while they are directed south.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's not like I don't understand the forces at work. Maybe the show is just too big for me, because I don't like pretty much any of those changes. :)

One thing that definitely was a challenge this year that I don't remember being so bad in the past is the tram situation. I don't ever remember waiting so long for a tram that I simply gave up. Happened four or five times this year. Is it possible that it's the same number of trams over the years even as the show grew? In any case, I would *love* to see some additional capacity put online in an "express" configuration. Show center to ultralights, non-stop. Show center to south 40, non-stop. Need trams that go further south than they currently do also. Maybe similar improvements on the other lines, but I don't ride them so don't know.

Camped in Scholler for this year for the first time in a decade. Buses kept up with demand.
 
I don't even try to get on the trams at intermediate stops. Too many jackhole's that cut in line and rush for open seats like their life depended on it. I wish the tram conductors would call that behavior out. They have slightly better line control/management at the main tram corrals. In my experience far fewer people seem to disembark at the intermediate stops.
 
Seemed the trams were a bit better this year than last. Last year it was common to have four trams back, to back, to back. Pretty silly and frustrating. Busses from the exhibit hangars direct to N/S 40 would have to be a plus.
 
Mxfarm said:
Seemed the trams were a bit better this year than last. Last year it was common to have four trams back, to back, to back.
Click to expand...

That's what happens when the trams get out of synch. As the time between one tram and the next increases, the 2nd tram gets more and more riders, slowing it down further - creating a bigger gap to the preceding tram and a smaller gap to the subsequent tram, which is seeing fewer and fewer riders. The solution is to put the trams on a fixed duration cycle with specified times for each tram to leave each stop. That generally means slowing them down a little so all the trams can hit the designated times, regardless of passenger load or slow loading/unloading.

That's probably pretty hard to manage...
 
kyleb said:
That's what happens when the trams get out of synch. As the time between one tram and the next increases, the 2nd tram gets more and more riders, slowing it down further - creating a bigger gap to the preceding tram and a smaller gap to the subsequent tram, which is seeing fewer and fewer riders. The solution is to put the trams on a fixed duration cycle with specified times for each tram to leave each stop. That generally means slowing them down a little so all the trams can hit the designated times, regardless of passenger load or slow loading/unloading.

That's probably pretty hard to manage...
Click to expand...

Yep. Especially with so many 'unofficial' jackwagons using the same routes on their scooters and golf carts that operate on their own rules (it's their world, we just live in it).

Not to mention the volunteers are doing their own thing and not super consistent in operation - at one point we saw 4-5 trams all backed up behind one guy that was driving painfully slow. I felt bad for him - he was noticeably older than the other tram operators and you could tell he was a bit worn out from avoiding all the pedestrian traffic and was running at a crawl the whole time. ha. When I drove a city bus while in college, this happened during peak times there, too - you get one driver that somewhat lags behind and it doesn't matter how many 'overflow' buses you throw on the route - they're all gonna catch up to that one bus.

I do think that, like someone else mentioned here, some dedicated 'express routes' to a few main pickup/drop-off points on far ends of the show space may help alleviate some of the burden on the intermediate routes.
 
CJones said:
I do think that, like someone else mentioned here, some dedicated 'express routes' to a few main pickup/drop-off points on far ends of the show space may help alleviate some of the burden on the intermediate routes.
Click to expand...

I would love to see a N/S tram with only 3 stops - warbirds, show center, and UL.
 
maybe they should rent chair scooters for those who can't walk the field? lol :D
 
UngaWunga said:
that "staking out airplane space" always seemed odd to me. Should be first come, first served.
And as someone who has volunteered to park/guide planes as OSH before, they are volunteers. Those that are griping that you don't get a gold star for showing up should try volunteering sometime.
Click to expand...
I have a lifetime of experience with tractors and boats, and 30 years with airplanes, with maybe 20 5-day visits to OSH. I volunteered to drive a tram a couple of years ago. This year, I volunteered to work at the Seaplane Base. I was ignored both times, without even the courtesy of a "thanks but no thanks" email. I probably won't try again.
 
Huh. I’ve only volunteered flightline. Walk up, you see the calendar and shifts, write your name, and show up. It definitely seems to be a face to face thing though to know where to go and who to talk to. There is a volunteer recruiting hut by the red barn in Scholler and they would definitely match your interests to needs as best as they can.
 
masloki said:
Huh. I’ve only volunteered flightline. Walk up, you see the calendar and shifts, write your name, and show up. It definitely seems to be a face to face thing though to know where to go and who to talk to. There is a volunteer recruiting hut by the red barn in Scholler and they would definitely match your interests to needs as best as they can.
Click to expand...

There’s also a page on the EAA AirVenture website where different areas will directly “solicit” for volunteers. It usually gets populated around May each year.
 
I talked to the SPB people face to face last year about volunteering for this year. I’m a physician and told them I’d be willing to work First Aid, too. I answered all of the emails and told them I could work any shifts they wanted on Tuesday, Wednesday, and/or Thursday. The schedule came out, I wasn’t on it, and that was that.

The tram thing was in response to something on the website: click here to volunteer. Then there was a series of questions about experience, etc. Same basic thing. No contact from EAA.

They must not be hurting too badly for volunteers.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
They must not be hurting too badly for volunteers.
Click to expand...

I think that’s true for some but not all the volunteer areas. I volunteered as a driver for the Homebuilt Welcome Wagon and I know for a fact that the supervisor turned volunteers away. The way our schedule was built is he started in early Spring with the list of last year’s volunteers, polled to see who was returning and then filled in the rest with “known” first timers for whom he had their contact info. Our schedule was set roughly a month before the show started. He had a list of stand-bys that he used to fill in last minute dropouts (usually due to illness) although in many instances gaps were filled by volunteers already on the schedule taking an extra shift.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top