Airline Pilots and Security

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Skid, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. Skid

    Skid Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I recently saw a headline that uniforms are now being required to use the KCM checkpoint and how everyone is mad about it. I've always been kind of curious how security access works for pilots who are showing up for work vs those who are commuting vs those who are just traveling for fun.

    Obviously if you're working that day in full uniform you just stroll through this KCM area and its no big deal. I'd imagine this is the same for commuters, but what if you're just traveling for fun to Vegas for the weekend, any restrictions? To the layman I can't see how TSA guys would know what your purpose is, but wasn't sure if the SOP at the airline forbid it or how it worked. Would this render getting something like TSA-precheck pointless? Can you basically bring anything through, are bags checked?

    Similar to the above, do crew members have different access to the airport such as different parking areas to make it more convenient or back doors in a way to get to wear they need to be? Can a pilot just traveling for fun use these perks?
     
  2. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Not today Bin Laden. And the uniform issue has been temporarily resolved.
     
  3. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Most of your questions can be answered here. The other questions are security sensitive questions that I doubt (hope) no one will answer on this forum

    https://www.knowncrewmember.org/faq/
     
  4. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach

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    So, was it KSM or OBL that caused KCM to come into being?

    I'm stuck with TSA Pre :(
     
  5. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    It’s all pointless. If I can be trust to fly the airplane I can be trusted to ride the airplane for any purpose. Security theater.
     
  6. Cooter

    Cooter Ejection Handle Pulled

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    And a good example of the bureaucratic abuse we’ve been conditioned to accept. We repeatedly acquiesce to absurdity, and eventually quit expecting truth and reason to factor in to the process. A pilot can’t walk through the clown show with a small pocket knife but two minutes later, can sit at the controls with a similarly sharp 2lb crash axe in the cockpit .
     
  7. Warlock

    Warlock Cleared for Takeoff

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    My wife just told me the requirement was lifted because of pushback and no longer in force.
     
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  8. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    On paper it’s no longer enforced. Still, we have the blueberries turning down our crew members out of uniform when trying to access KCM. Apparently supervisors at some airports are still directing their agents to turn down plain clothed crew members, even though official guidance is we can still go through in plain clothes.
     
  9. Pugs

    Pugs Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The Tray Stacking Agency is applying rules inconsistently???? Inconceivable! :confused::D
     
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  10. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

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    C'mon guys. Really? Standard convention is to define an acronym or initialism in the first use if it's not commonly known to the audience.

    KCM=Known Crew Member

    I'm guessing it's not Kenneth Copeland Ministries.
     
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  11. exncsurfer

    exncsurfer Pattern Altitude

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    It was the MIB

    (sorry, I just had to throw a random acronym out there)
     
  12. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

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    More TLA's*..........



    * TLA: Three Letter Acronym
     
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  13. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

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    Technically...

    Those aren't acronyms. :D
     
  14. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Cleared for Takeoff

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    Ugh. :rolleyes:

    ==

    My KCM badge lapsed last year, but I was having dinner with a 121 buddy of mine last night. The rumor he heard is that a KCM badge holder used the checkpoint for their entire family. If true, one wonders why the TSA checker wasn't sacked immediately, rather than this rulechange clampdown. I guess the uniform rule is on hold temporarily to allow everyone time to grease their pitchforks.
     
  15. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

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    I should have quoted post #11 since that's what I was replying to.

    Technically.:rolleyes:
     
  16. Dave Theisen

    Dave Theisen En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The first rule of KCM is, don’t talk about KCM. :)
     
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  17. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    Or just ban the few bad apples instead of making all of us suffer. The crew member who did that is a moron. The TSA agent who let his entire family through is equally as dumb
     
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  18. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Yeah... personally I find it hard to believe.
     
  19. sourdough44

    sourdough44 Pattern Altitude

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    My dog seems to keep miscreants away. She has that sixth sense.
    6355DF63-1F0D-4F28-86B9-97293FBFE583.jpeg
     
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  20. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

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    Okay. What's a MIB?
     
  21. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

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    Men In Black
     
  22. donjohnston

    donjohnston Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah... pretty sure that's not an acronym. Every time I've heard it used they say the letters. Can't say as that I've ever heard that reference spoken as a word.
     
  23. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Line Up and Wait

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    Whatever makes you happy. :rolleyes:
     
  24. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Because you never fire the bureaucrat’s attack dogs. You punish everyone for the transgressions of a single. Comrade. :)

    I made this for all the whining pilots to remind them that they and their companies never gave a rat’s ass about their customer’s experiences.

    [​IMG]

    Equal pain in the security theater State is just fine by me. KCM, Clear, Pre... shut them all down. Enjoy the lines and the hell with the rest of us. Maybe a nice groin pat if you forget your wallet is in a pocket you don’t usually put it in. Or a gum wrapper. Or whatever they’re looking for.

    No bottles of water for you either. Buy a nice $4 bottle on the other side of the checkpoint like the rest of us. LOL.
     
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  25. Jeff767

    Jeff767 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    You do understand that the vast majority of airport workers don’t go through any security at all. The swipe or flash their badges and are inside the secure area. The guy making Tacos at the food court fresh out of jail on probation walks right in but your pilot that day must go through some type of screening.
     
  26. EvilEagle

    EvilEagle Cleared for Takeoff

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    Do you think that airline pilots don't care about their customer's experiences? We are all still customers too - I don't know many airline pilots that don't buy a few airline tickets per year.

    On the contrary, as a customer I hope the guys that are in control of the plane flying through terrible weather in very congested airspace have had a relatively stress-free experience getting to work that day so they are ready to pay attention and get me safely to my destination.
     
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  27. Fracpilot

    Fracpilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Agreed. We are past the point of “one person poops, we all wear a diaper”.

    How about Jet Blue FA’s stop smuggling drugs and ruining for all of us too? Lol

    By the way, she was in uniform when she was caught.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  28. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser!

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  29. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach

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    I feel very safe now that these and those diabolical snow globes won’t be on my plane.
     
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  30. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Not enough to care that their experience is not what the customer experiences.

    And before we get the speech about how they have to travel for work/commute, so did I as a customer. Flew every week at a minimum for years. I was also “headed to work” and needed to be sharp or I would lose a multimillion dollar support contract customer and more than just me would get laid off...

    It’s just funny to me reading the other pro boards the whining and wailing and gnashing of teeth, over having to experience the security theater that customer base has put up with now for decades.

    I totally agree however with the folks who have said sitting around on a commuting leg in uniform sucks balls. But we could start a whole thread about how stupid the uniforms are in this era, anyway. Pseudo-military uniforms made out of materials that will stick to your skin in a fire? Stupid.

    I’d be fine with a flight crew that had company logo polos and dark pants. And maybe even *gasp* a tattoo or three showing!

    Airlines to those ideas: OMG, the sky is falling, the sky is falling! Hahahahaha.

    Not saying if you or I work for one we don’t just put on the uniform and shut up. Most folks have worked places with uniforms.

    But the whole “I’m a post-WWII aviator with my epaulets and polyester clothes.... buy plastics!...” image is silly. But so ingrained in culture that it terrifies the airlines to drop it.

    Most of the charter jets have dropped it for the passengers they know and fly regularly. The billionaires don’t care for the most part. A few do, but they’re old. They’ll be dead soon.
     
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  31. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Only if held by this guy: [​IMG]
     
  32. EvilEagle

    EvilEagle Cleared for Takeoff

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    It's not necessary to have the same experience for everyone; everyone is not the same no matter how much the PC police insist they are. Few if any customers have an active background check specifically in mind for public transportation. No one in the back of the plane is directly responsible for the safe operation of the airplane.

    Your argument is akin to "one person ****s their pants, we all wear diapers". Putting pilots through security does nothing to minimize the impact of TSA on the traveling public - rather it'll add more people to the already slow lines. More delays for departures, longer lines, more tired/stressed pilots... all for what? So the travelling public can say "yeah! See, you aren't special!" That makes no sense. There are programs for frequent fliers to get expedited security screening - KCM is just one more step in the same direction for the people that are already directly responsible for safe operation of the airlines.

    Does the security screening process need an overhaul? Absolutely! Will that happen sooner because you stick pilots in the line with everyone else? Not a chance. It might make a few petty people feel better, but it will slow down the operation further and could risk safety. The businessman can fly up the day prior and be well rested for that meeting for a multimillion dollar support contract; if they cant' go up the night before I'd argue that it must not be that important. Pilots not so much.
     
  33. Cooter

    Cooter Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Well said.
     
  34. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Never said they did. Read my statement again carefully. I said the pilots never gave a ****. They still don’t.

    And yes, I did have a better background check than most of the flight crew when I travelled. Nice try on that one.

    Flying commercial is about one step above the customer service levels at a car dealership anymore. Let’s take the least comfortable things we can possibly do and cram them all into one cohesive “airport experience”.

    As someone put it on a different board, if pilots cared half as much about the customer service things in the ground contracts and everything else their companies do to customers, they’d actually have some clout right now in difficult hiring times.

    But pilots aren’t the worst. Go follow a few FAs on Twitter and see how much they like the customers that pay their bills. Truly awful continuous stuff out of some of the more popular ones over there.

    Yeah, the traveling public are jerks and asses but it’s just blatant hatred spewing all the time over there.

    If I said ANYTHING like what they post about my customers in public today, I would be looking for a job tomorrow.

    Pilots as a whole generally just show up to work and do a job and don’t care much about the customers. But some of the FAs. Wow.

    My last commercial flight the Captain exited the cockpit and stood around in the forward galley chatting up the FA for a significant length of time. The FA had nothing to do since it was one of those “buy a $10 snack box” flights. So you know who that was.

    I really didn’t care, but it wasn’t like they were walking down the aisle thanking us all for paying for the flight or anything haha. There was the cursory “we know you have a choice in airline” speech on the PA, of course, but I really didn’t. They were the only non-stop that wasn’t at midnight. LOL.

    I flew way too much to get excited about another trip on an aluminum people tube anymore, but I can tell when crews couldn’t care less if people were aboard or not. Most crews these days really don’t care.

    That just made me wonder... what flight was it the most obvious the crew was happy we were aboard... and I’d have to say my last TWA flight. They were about to go under. Whole crew was older and it was a very comfortable 727. I even got a bump to first class in jeans and a polo which wasn’t common back then.

    I behaved myself and slept. Biggest airline seat I’ve ever been in. Quite comfortable. But even my original seat wasn’t bad.

    The $1200 dollar refundable ticket I was on, couldn’t save them. Dead men and women walkin’.

    Flying on business during a recession, everyone is happy to see passengers on board and their airline hasn’t tanked and they weren’t on the furlough list last week. Haha. It’ll come again sooner or later.

    But for now? Moooo. Get on board. We don’t care if TSA fondled your giblets. And we don’t care you’re here. Another full flight.
     
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  35. IK04

    IK04 Pattern Altitude

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  36. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Pattern Altitude

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    I figured it out all by myself.
     
  37. kayoh190

    kayoh190 Super Moderator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I find it amusing that we’re getting lectured about customer service from a guy that works in IT, of all ****ing places. “You know, I really love our IT department.” has been said by absolutely nobody in history.

    Well Nate, since you have it all figured out, as an individual airline pilot what would *you* do to improve the TSA experience for passengers?
     
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  38. iRyan

    iRyan Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I find it absolubly comical that I have to take off my belt, remove my pen, tie clip and phone while going through security w/o KCM. Just wait until TSA finds out about the escape materials we have upfront.
     
  39. N1120A

    N1120A Cleared for Takeoff

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    Yeah, just read the giant signs they post.
     
  40. Jeff767

    Jeff767 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Sooner or later some pilot after being strip searched is going to take the axe from the cockpit back to the security checkpoint and ask if it’s ok to have!