Aircraft Spruce - FAILURE in customer service

[bflynn]

Around 10,000. No skus. Mark 20 eyeball to identify based on product label. Segregated and organized by vendors/families/sizes.

Ok - barcodes improve identification because the MK20 paired with the Mk7 brain can make mistakes, but I'm never opposed to visual checking.

I recently did a project for a client that was claiming 100% shipping accuracy (yeah, right), but never got feedback from customer service on misship complaints. Let's just say she was err...surprised. Fortunately, it's usually just a few pickers and there is an easy fix.

 

[EdFred]

Ok - barcodes improve identification because the MK20 paired with the Mk7 brain can make mistakes, but I'm never opposed to visual checking.

I recently did a project for a client that was claiming 100% shipping accuracy (yeah, right), but never got feedback from customer service on misship complaints. Let's just say she was err...surprised. Fortunately, it's usually just a few pickers and there is an easy fix.

We have one person pull product, another person double check what's pulled. It has reduced the shipping errors, but even sometimes things slip through - usually packaging type. 500g vs 600g packaging.

 

[Sundancer]

Depends on whether or not someone else was ordering at the same time. There's 1 widget left, and you and I load up the web page for that widget a couple seconds apart. We both go through the motions of putting it in our cart bit it just sits in each one for 20 minutes before one of us clicks check out. There is always a time lag on systems with that large of a database and website and direct entry systems. The processing overhead to refresh every few milliseconds would make for a horrible experience.

At some point a "commit" is made - the other order beats yours out of the cart? Oops, your order rejects, with notification. You get annoyed that "in stock" suddenly is no longer. But at least you know at checkout. Understood, the process is pseudo-conversational, so your "last look" may not reflect the current state. But it's not a big lift to make the status change apparent when the "loser" attempts to complete the checkout.

 

[EdFred]

At some point a "commit" is made - the other order beats yours out of the cart? Oops, your order rejects, with notification. You get annoyed that "in stock" suddenly is no longer. But at least you know at checkout. Understood, the process is pseudo-conversational, so your "last look" may not reflect the current state. But it's not a big lift to make the status change apparent when the "loser" attempts to complete the checkout.

True, I have that on our internal system. Doesn't help if the inventory count was off, and doesn't match the system though.

 

[Stevel]

We aren't talking about it not being able to be done. I'm saying it's an additional step/risk to deal with at month-end where you're checking every billed transaction to see if it actually shipped and then doing an entry to record billed but not shipped/partial shipments against unearned revenue. It would just be an odd arrangement for a retail company when it would simplify just about everything by not billing until shipment is processed. If something takes months to ship, the reconciliation of that Unearned Revenue account can get messy when we're dealing with thousands of transactions per month.

Agree

 

[172andyou]

At some point a "commit" is made - the other order beats yours out of the cart? Oops, your order rejects, with notification. You get annoyed that "in stock" suddenly is no longer. But at least you know at checkout.

In sales we used to call that "first to paper wins". Meaning that it was pointless to try and predict the future and schedule things out on the prospect that deals *might* close. So you say yes to everyone and if someone signs paperwork that makes it impossible to meet criteria for other deals, you inform the others at that time and adjust the promises being made. If they don't like it, they should have signed more quickly!

 

[pfarber]

AS&S is a dumpster fire.

first garbage CS event:
i ordered a 12ft long tube. web site charged card and i out down WILL CALL (ie im gonna pick it up). drive 5 hours from TN and i go to the counter and they didn't have the part. They then tried to explain that they 'thought' i wanted 12 1ft pieces. after showing them in the catalog and my order that it was ordered correctly as 1 12ft piece i left with a refund.

Second dumpster fire:
I see the tube is in stock AGAIN. I call the phone number and order, specifically asking that they put a note that i want 12ft tubes. They had 3 in stock. I asked the CS person could someone verify they had 3 tubes and GOT A CALL BACK THAT THE LOCAL WAREHOUSE PICKER VERIFIED 3 TUBES in stock. Remember that, they CALLED ME BACK and said someone physical touched the items. So i drive back down the next day. 3 hours from AS&S i get a call. sorry, we only have ONE tube in stock and its 11ft. After venting my frustration i said I'll be there ti get the piece.

So i get home and when i get the survey email i replied with the truth. I was lied to about the parts and its happened twice. I get a call from someone claiming to be a VP or some such and he sticks up for his employees. saying it was not lie just an honest mistake. i told him about the call back, the name of the CS agent and that he can easily listen to the lies i was told because all calls are recorded 'for training '.

Bottom line AS&S is a hot garbage dumpster fire and have the proof to prove it.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Received a very early life lesson back when I was a young buck working in an auto parts store. A customer called looking for a throttle cable for the fairly rare vehicle. The computer said it was in stock so he said, "hang on to it, I'll be right there." When he got there it wasn't to be found.

Before I head off to any place where I need a part, I call, they check, and then I ask them to hold it.. easy peasy lemon squeezy.

Where I get going is when I hit Lowes or Home Depot, etc... where it says they have 20 in stock and there is nothing there.

So getting back on track here, how many orders a day do you think Aircraft Spruce ships that are 100% right?

 

[kyleb]

I was lied to about the parts and its happened twice.

Lied to? Doubtful. I'd bet on dumbassery, but not deceit. Heck, until I installed an automated, lights out warehouse, we were dumb enough to lose (unique) 4'x3'x4' pallets of product which weighted 1,000 lbs/pallet. How? Someone didn't follow the process for putting away inventory and recording the transaction. According to the warehouse manager, it is a pretty dumb feeling when the truck shows up at the dock and you have to tell the the driver "Yep, we finished your custom order today. And immediately lost it."

 

[Dave Theisen]

We recently had a $60,000 part shipped to the wrong address with no insurance. Now THATS a customer service fail.

 

[Daleandee]

Guess I should start my own rant thread. I need a part that costs $4.98 cents. It doesn't weight much of anything (small plastic trim parts) but the shipping is over five bucks. OK that's not sane but I'll go along because I need the part. On checkout I get another four dollar charge because my order amount doesn't meet their minimum order amount. Well let's add tax and handling charges too so that my five buck part is over twenty dollars. It's not the money folks, it's the nickel & dime approach they use.

 

[Albany Tom]

We recently had a $60,000 part shipped to the wrong address with no insurance. Now THATS a customer service fail.

That reminds me of one of the problems with Garden Way, before they went down. They were the parent company of "Troy Built", and actually used to make things in Troy NY, just up the river. They had some sort of software problem and were shipping mowers and rototillers and stuff, routinely, to completely wrong places. I think the Troy Built name is still around, but believe it's just a different painting of MTD. Bad software has probably helped kill more than one company.

 

[Kristin]

I place a few orders every month. I have been doing for over 15 years. No organization is perfect, but they do a darn good job considering that over that time they have absorbed several competitors and had to integrate them into the system. A couple of times when Spruce has disappointed me, an email to Jim Irwin, the boss of bosses, has gotten a prompt reply and generally satisfaction.

 

[pfarber]

Lied to? Doubtful. I'd bet on dumbassery, but not deceit. Heck, until I installed an automated, lights out warehouse, we were dumb enough to lose (unique) 4'x3'x4' pallets of product which weighted 1,000 lbs/pallet. How? Someone didn't follow the process for putting away inventory and recording the transaction. According to the warehouse manager, it is a pretty dumb feeling when the truck shows up at the dock and you have to tell the the driver "Yep, we finished your custom order today. And immediately lost it."

You fail to understand that I was told that a worker had physically touched 3 12ft long tubes. They called me back saying that they did.

That’s not an opposite, that outright lying about parts. I explained in detail, with the old order number about the ‘we thought you wanted 12 1ft tubes’ and they still, within 12 hours, managed to screw it up. That’s blatant outright lying.

Then the VP who refused to to listen to the recorded call where the CS rep said that they physically touched the parts, and that they were 100% there. All he could do is say that it was an ‘honest mistake’. How can you honestly mistake NOT calling the warehouse, NOT asking to verify that the parts where there in the proper qty and length, and then NOT lying on the call back saying you had the parts?

What fantasy world do you live in where this chain of lies is a minor ‘oppsie’.

AS&S is hot garbage, and many, many people know this.

 

[SoonerAviator]

You fail to understand that I was told that a worker had physically touched 3 12ft long tubes. They called me back saying that they did.

That’s not an opposite, that outright lying about parts. I explained in detail, with the old order number about the ‘we thought you wanted 12 1ft tubes’ and they still, within 12 hours, managed to screw it up. That’s blatant outright lying.

Then the VP who refused to to listen to the recorded call where the CS rep said that they physically touched the parts, and that they were 100% there. All he could do is say that it was an ‘honest mistake’. How can you honestly mistake NOT calling the warehouse, NOT asking to verify that the parts where there in the proper qty and length, and then NOT lying on the call back saying you had the parts?

What fantasy world do you live in where this chain of lies is a minor ‘oppsie’.

AS&S is hot garbage, and many, many people know this.

Any chance the warehouse guy found three 12ft tubes in a different diameter than what you needed and reported those (erroneously) as the part you were looking for? I'm not making excuses for them, but having done at least 100 physical inventories of warehouse/manufacturing facilities over my career, I have seen staff (both seasoned and not) make similar errors when parts look the same or very similar. I've unit of measure errors where the part was counted in inches, but in the "system" it's measure in feet. So they come back with 36" of pipe written on the inventory tag, and it gets entered, but the system now reports that we have 36-feet of pipe. Inventory is now off (assuming it doesn't get caught in review). Sometimes hard to spot the difference in 2-1/16" and 2-1/8" pipe when they are sitting next to each other. Lots of reasons they might have put their hands "on the pipe" thinking it was what you were ordering.

 

[Gary Ward]

Can the OP use scat hose instead of sceet hose?

No. I need SCEET. There is a ton of SCAT out there but not what the application calls for.

Could you use scat hose, would it be legal?

 

[Bob Noel]

Do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence

 

[kyleb]

Do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence

I was going to post the exact same quote.

 

[Silvaire]

I've got a tailwheel tire that's been on backorder now for about three weeks but honestly I've been using Spruce for a few decades now and I'm glad they are there. I'm old enough now to know there are gonna be bumps in the road now and then. So Spruce is having a little trouble getting the tubing you need. You don't seem to be having any luck either so maybe just chill, get that blood pressure down, have a Margarita or something. The world ain't gonna end.

 

[Pinecone]

Depends on whether or not someone else was ordering at the same time. There's 1 widget left, and you and I load up the web page for that widget a couple seconds apart. We both go through the motions of putting it in our cart bit it just sits in each one for 20 minutes before one of us clicks check out. There is always a time lag on systems with that large of a database and website and direct entry systems. The processing overhead to refresh every few milliseconds would make for a horrible experience.

A GOOD order system would put a hold when the first person puts it in their cart, but have a timer that removes the hold if there is no action within a certain period of time or at least requires a response.

 

[Pinecone]

Guess I should start my own rant thread. I need a part that costs $4.98 cents. It doesn't weight much of anything (small plastic trim parts) but the shipping is over five bucks. OK that's not sane but I'll go along because I need the part. On checkout I get another four dollar charge because my order amount doesn't meet their minimum order amount. Well let's add tax and handling charges too so that my five buck part is over twenty dollars. It's not the money folks, it's the nickel & dime approach they use.

Have you tried to ship something recently? UPS and FedEx are a LOT more expensive than before. A LOT more.

 

[kyleb]

Guess I should start my own rant thread. I need a part that costs $4.98 cents. It doesn't weight much of anything (small plastic trim parts) but the shipping is over five bucks. OK that's not sane but I'll go along because I need the part. On checkout I get another four dollar charge because my order amount doesn't meet their minimum order amount. Well let's add tax and handling charges too so that my five buck part is over twenty dollars. It's not the money folks, it's the nickel & dime approach they use.

Aircraft Spruce is a for-profit business. Below a certain minimum order amount, they lose money because of the transaction costs. An AN-365 nut probably costs a dime. Can they sell you one for a dime plus $5 in shipping (total $5.10) and profit? No way. So they add a small order surcharge. What's that cover? The guy's time to pick and box the order. The credit card processing. The back and forth e-mail. The BOL that is attached to the package. We want ACS to remain in business. They have to be profitable to do that. So you pay $20 for a little plastic part delivered to your doorstep.

In the experimental world (which you're part of), one of the jokes is the only people making money are UPS and FedEx. There's truth in that statement.

 

[Albany Tom]

Yeah, even Amazon doesn't offer free shipping on small orders unless you join their club. With places like digikey or mmc, I keep a list of things I could use, so I can pad an order to something around $25 or so. Both used to have about that for a minimum order, but not sure if they do anymore.

Oh, and if you don't need them for a certified airplane "bolt depot" will sell single piece nuts and bolts of various sizes at pretty decent prices. The overall order might have a minimum, but you can buy 2 of an 8-32x2" stainless screw if you want. No affiliation, just a customer. They sound overseas, but they ship out of Mass.

 

[Gary Ward]

This past Monday at about 11am I ordered 6 cases of 15W50 oil from spruce online. 10 am the next morning ups is putting it on my back porch. 24 hr delivery is common from spruce. Since the order was over 350 it was free shipping for 2 large boxes that were pretty heavy.
I used to buy it local until they quit carrying it. Really can't beat spruce unless you get it from Sun n Fun or Oshkosh.

Funny I remember a couple three years ago I ordered some sceet ducting or was it scat? and it was out of stock. It was not much longer maybe 5 days later it showed up. Those shipments always have it's own invoice and I am not charged until they ship.

 

[Daleandee]

Have you tried to ship something recently? UPS and FedEx are a LOT more expensive than before. A LOT more.

What I need could be sent in an envelope for a couple of bucks at most ...

 

[Daleandee]

Aircraft Spruce is a for-profit business. Below a certain minimum order amount, they lose money because of the transaction costs. An AN-365 nut probably costs a dime. Can they sell you one for a dime plus $5 in shipping (total $5.10) and profit? No way. So they add a small order surcharge. What's that cover? The guy's time to pick and box the order. The credit card processing. The back and forth e-mail. The BOL that is attached to the package. We want ACS to remain in business. They have to be profitable to do that. So you pay $20 for a little plastic part delivered to your doorstep.

In the experimental world (which you're part of), one of the jokes is the only people making money are UPS and FedEx. There's truth in that statement.

All of those associated costs should be figured into the pricing of the items to be sold. I understand that they are there to make a dollar but making a profit on the part, in the shipping, then adding a handling fee, a minimum order fee, taxes, dealer prep, assembly, options, etc. I would have better understood the part being twice the quoted price as to see so many nickels and dimes being added every time I thought the order was done.

Yes, I ordered the parts I needed and they won't arrive in the time that they say they "normally" would. I'm OK with it. Just would rather have the deal upfront rather than all the dancing around it took ...

 

[kyleb]

All of those associated costs should be figured into the pricing of the items to be sold.

That would penalize buyers who buy a bunch of items. That $400 bill for 78 different items would turn into $750. ACS wants to favor customers who buy in volume, not subsidize those of us who buy onesies...

And I honestly don't know how/why the shaking head carried over to my post. Ain't supposed to.

 

[Daleandee]

That would penalize buyers who buy a bunch of items.

Not really. Other places had the same (or similar item) at a higher price without the add-ons. BTW ... I ain't talking about Spruce.

 

[NealRomeoGolf]

Can we get back to talking about how Spruce sucks? You guys are getting boring.

 

[Daleandee]

Can we get back to talking about how Spruce sucks? You guys are getting boring.

Come on now ... I learned from the best on POA about how to derail a thread ...

 

[Bob Noel]

what we need is an icon showing the thread has drifted and one showing it has been derailed... kind of like the sticky thread icon

 

[bflynn]

 

[SoonerAviator]

Come on now ... I learned from the best on POA about how to derail a thread ...

@SixPapaCharlie taught you well.

 

[Pinecone]

What I need could be sent in an envelope for a couple of bucks at most ...

But how much for the envelop, and the person to pick the item, pack it, stick in the label?

Plus the cost of having that part on the shelf. And the cost of the shelf. And the building the shelf is in. And the electricity for the lights.

 

[Daleandee]

@SixPapaCharlie taught you well.

He may have a class for it but I didn't learn it from him ...

 

[Daleandee]

But how much for the envelop, and the person to pick the item, pack it, stick in the label?

Plus the cost of having that part on the shelf. And the cost of the shelf. And the building the shelf is in. And the electricity for the lights.

They could use a guy like you in Washington ...

 

[pfarber]

Any chance the warehouse guy found three 12ft tubes in a different diameter than what you needed and reported those (erroneously) as the part you were looking for? I'm not making excuses for them, but having done at least 100 physical inventories of warehouse/manufacturing facilities over my career, I have seen staff (both seasoned and not) make similar errors when parts look the same or very similar. I've unit of measure errors where the part was counted in inches, but in the "system" it's measure in feet. So they come back with 36" of pipe written on the inventory tag, and it gets entered, but the system now reports that we have 36-feet of pipe. Inventory is now off (assuming it doesn't get caught in review). Sometimes hard to spot the difference in 2-1/16" and 2-1/8" pipe when they are sitting next to each other. Lots of reasons they might have put their hands "on the pipe" thinking it was what you were ordering.

I specifically requested that the lengths be checked. They CONFIRMED that the parts were there, 1inch dia 12ft .068 wall.

They had the exact specifications of what I needed and the part number. I ordered and paid for the parts on the call back (the one where they lied about having them) so no, no one snuck in to get them. I was on the road the next morning as was at WILL CALL by 11am. They called me approx 9:30 shortly after they opened.

Magically, overnight, two of the tubes that they verified were there (lol sure you liars) eloped and ran away to make baby tubes?

Cut the crap, AS&S is hot garbage and I have 2 OTHER orders that they screwed the pooch over. Once I go my shipping refunded and the other where I drove 5 hours to pick up a tube they had in stock but magically a ft tube was ‘mistakenly thought’ to be 12 1ft tubes. Even though the final price and part number prove that they screwed up.

AS&S is hot garbage.

 

[kyleb]

I specifically requested that the lengths be checked. They CONFIRMED that the parts were there, 1inch dia 12ft .068 wall.

Usually, people need motivation to lie. Does your ex-wife work there? Even worse, one of her friends?

If not, odds are a hundred to one that someone made a mistake. They carry 10 different wall thicknesses of 1" tube. Plus the same inventory in 7/8", and slightly fewer thicknesses in 1 1/8". I dunno how they store the stuff, but I can imagine a bunch of scenarios where the guy in the back checked the wrong bin. Stinks to drive a long way to get it, but doesn't mean it wasn't an honest mistake.

 

[Ed Haywood]

I am doing a bare frame restoration of my Decathlon. Am replacing as close to 100% of hardware as I can get. Every single nut, bolt, washer, and screw. I went through the parts manual and made a monster order, but of course missed plenty of bits. I have placed dozens of orders over the past year. Dunno how much I have spent with Spruce but at least $20K.

I cannot think of a single mistake or failure on their part. Not one. This week I ordered $380 of parts on Tuesday night, and it was on my doorstep on Friday morning, with free shipping.

Here is my airframe at peak disassembly 11 months ago, on the way to get blasted and powdercoated. God willing and the creek don't rise, it will fly to Oshkosh next month. Spruce was a big part of that.

 

[Sluggo63]

Usually, people need motivation to lie. Does your ex-wife work there? Even worse, one of her friends?

If not, odds are a hundred to one that someone made a mistake. They carry 10 different wall thicknesses of 1" tube. Plus the same inventory in 7/8", and slightly fewer thicknesses in 1 1/8". I dunno how they store the stuff, but I can imagine a bunch of scenarios where the guy in the back checked the wrong bin. Stinks to drive a long way to get it, but doesn't mean it wasn't an honest mistake.

Forget it, he's rolling.