Aircraft Spruce - FAILURE in customer service

SoonerAviator said:
Which tells me they aren't a publicly traded company, as the accountants would be having a conniption over billing prior to shipment/delivery of the products. Creates revenue-recognition problems that Sarbanes Oxley is designed to avoid.
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Depends on their software for rev rec. They could debit cash and credit a liability and be fine.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Depends on their software for rev rec. They could debit cash and credit a liability and be fine.
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Agreed, but it just seems overly complicated when they could just use standard ExWorks/FCA terms and forward to billing when it ships like 99% of everyone else in the retail segment.
 
I just looked up a Spruce order where two oil filters were shipped at different times (months after) after the bulk of the order was shipped. Everything was ordered in 2022 and the last filter was not shipped until Jan 2023. I was not charged for either filter up front and each filter was a separate charge when it shipped. I *believe* (but am not going to the trouble of checking) that's been the case every time I've had stuff backordered. Apparently the 'charge on order' policy is not rigidly adhered to.

Nauga,
watching out for that tree.
 
3393RP said:
They obviously lied to you about the tubing being in stock. ...
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WADR actually what is obvious is that you have never managed an inventory of any size. There are many reasons why shelf stock doesn't match the number the software has. One simple one is where a previous order picker took the wrong quantity. The picker doesn't know this, and if he picked too much the POS system will happily sell what it thinks is on the shelf. The only way to minimize errors is regular counts. In my experience, 100% accuracy is nearly unachievable.

If you think managing an aircraft parts inventory would be easy, try controlling an inventory of food or booze.

 
airdale said:
WADR actually what is obvious is that you have never managed an inventory of any size. There are many reasons why shelf stock doesn't match the number the software has. One simple one is where a previous order picker took the wrong quantity. The picker doesn't know this, and if he picked too much the POS system will happily sell what it thinks is on the shelf. The only way to minimize errors is regular counts. In my experience, 100% accuracy is nearly unachievable.

If you think managing an aircraft parts inventory would be easy, try controlling an inventory of food or booze.

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I’m almost sure the post you quoted was tongue in cheek.
 
Received a very early life lesson back when I was a young buck working in an auto parts store. Customer called looking for a throttle cable for fairly rare vehicle. Computer said it was in stock so he said, "hang on to it, I'll be right there." When he got there it wasn't to be found.

After a rightly deserved chewing out by the customer I did manage to rescue the sale as our nearby warehouse had the item in stock and (after I confirmed over the phone and the other store physically confirmed they had the part) he got a ticket for it and went a few more miles to pick up the part.

I went to the manager's office and he understood that I didn't need to be told again about what I did wrong. To say the least I never made that error again.

All to say that it ain't a perfect world and you might as well get used to it. Yes, you can quote me on that ...
 
EdFred said:
As long as the inventory is correct, (the right parts are shipped/received in) keeping real time inventory is not a big deal at all. It's just a front facing website tied to a database.
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Exactly. It's not exactly a feat of amazing skill to write a check for $500 a month (or whatever) to the vendor that wrote software to keep that kind of thing straight. There are at least a couple dozen credible competitors in that space. This stuff wasn't even rocket science in the 80's when I got my first real job at a shipping company.
 
eman1200 said:
I had an issue with my car so I ordered a part on amazon SPECIFICALLY because it said next day delivery. next day I get an email saying shipping is delayed a coupl'a days. so I feel your pain, HOWEVER....you seem to be blaming customer service and it really doesn't sound like a "customer service" issue in the traditional sense.....like when you call up CS and they're jackwagons or something. this is just a company issue, maybe where their inventory is wrong, or the fact that they bill you before something ships....know what I'm saying? company issue vs customer service issue. either way, doesn't make your part get there any quicker....
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Similar, I had a headlight go out. Ordered for next day delivery. It showed up 6 WEEKS later.
 
I can think of three mail order outfits I use that are really reliable - Digikey, Mouser, McMaster, and B&H photo, and probably in that order. Hope I'm not jinxing them here. I've never had Digikey or Mouser screw up anything, whatever systems they have are good. With McMaster and B&H it's really rare. I haven't used Spruce all that much, but they've been good for me. Most places, including Amazon, maybe 95% right, which sounds good, but it means 1 in 20 orders are screwed up.
 
172andyou said:
Exactly. It's not exactly a feat of amazing skill to write a check for $500 a month (or whatever) to the vendor that wrote software to keep that kind of thing straight. There are at least a couple dozen credible competitors in that space. This stuff wasn't even rocket science in the 80's when I got my first real job at a shipping company.
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This isn't a software problem. This is a problem of having large warehouses with thousands of fiddly little SKUs, many of which are indistinguishable from one another. Shipping the wrong thing, too much of a thing, or just setting it aside while picking the order will render the data stale and unreliable and at some point, someone disappointed.

That they corrected it immediately after OP's harrowing ordeal means they have people trying to keep the sand castle made of cake frosting upright. But entropy reigns.
 
Albany Tom said:
I can think of three mail order outfits I use that are really reliable - Digikey, Mouser, McMaster, and B&H photo...
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I think you've summarized the problem very well. :D

Nauga,
who knows five is right out
 
Modern software? Maybe not? 'Cause if it was "in stock" when you ordered the inventory should have been depleted by the quantity of your order. Shouldn't be a case of someone else's order jumping yours, etc.
 
Sundancer said:
Modern software? Maybe not? 'Cause if it was "in stock" when you ordered the inventory should have been depleted by the quantity of your order. Shouldn't be a case of someone else's order jumping yours, etc.
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Think about what the OP was buying. Hose by the foot. Inventory is probably decremented by each shipment based on the order quantity, but if the guy in the warehouse cuts and ships 2'3" on a few 2' orders, that last 3' that's supposed to be in inventory is only a foot and a half.
 
kyleb said:
Think about what the OP was buying. Hose by the foot. Inventory is probably decremented by each shipment based on the order quantity, but if the guy in the warehouse cuts and ships 2'3" on a few 2' orders, that last 3' that's supposed to be in inventory is only a foot and a half.
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As I said earlier, and you have now provided one example ... it's not a perfect world. There are numerous reasons why there could be a discrepancy between what a machine shows as in stock and what is actually on the shelf.

It really isn't that hard to figure out. Or is it? :dunno:
 
Sundancer said:
Modern software? Maybe not? 'Cause if it was "in stock" when you ordered the inventory should have been depleted by the quantity of your order. Shouldn't be a case of someone else's order jumping yours, etc.
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Depends on whether or not someone else was ordering at the same time. There's 1 widget left, and you and I load up the web page for that widget a couple seconds apart. We both go through the motions of putting it in our cart bit it just sits in each one for 20 minutes before one of us clicks check out. There is always a time lag on systems with that large of a database and website and direct entry systems. The processing overhead to refresh every few milliseconds would make for a horrible experience.
 
Daleandee said:
As I said earlier, and you have now provided one example ... it's not a perfect world. There are numerous reasons why there could be a discrepancy between what a machine shows as in stock and what is actually on the shelf.

It really isn't that hard to figure out. Or is it? :dunno:
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Or a phone order was taken during the time the web order was placed.
 
Daleandee said:
As I said earlier, and you have now provided one example ... it's not a perfect world. There are numerous reasons why there could be a discrepancy between what a machine shows as in stock and what is actually on the shelf.

It really isn't that hard to figure out. Or is it? :dunno:
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I shouldn’t speak for kyleb (no relation to ryanb) but I believe he’s pretty much saying the same thing.
 
Let me tell you about my ASSCO order last week.
It had exactly everything I ordered.
It arrived extremely quickly.
I was able to order a few of each, of low-cost / no-profit nuts/screws/washers/bolts ie no minimum order, no ‘packs of 50’.
Oh, but another successful, perfect order out of 10,000 just like it is not news.
 
eman1200 said:
"yeah that" that I shouldn't be speaking for you, that you're not related to ryanb, or that you're saying the same thing? :)
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Exactly. I'm going for intentional ambiguity.

Actually, yeah, that was agreeing with you that I think I'm on the same page as daleandee. And that I'm not related to RyanB (as far as I know). And you're welcome to speak for me, as long as you get it right, which you did.

I think I've cleared it all up now...
 
kyleb said:
Think about what the OP was buying. Hose by the foot. Inventory is probably decremented by each shipment based on the order quantity, but if the guy in the warehouse cuts and ships 2'3" on a few 2' orders, that last 3' that's supposed to be in inventory is only a foot and a half.
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A SOP for any inventory is to do regular cycle counts weekly. A randomizer programs determines a number of SKUs to be verified weekly to catch issues such as the one you described.
 
Consider Spruce to be spectacular based on about 50 orders over the past say three years. Pretty sure they can't ship filters they don't have, and the rest have never had an issue with. As others have noted, up there with Digikey, Mouser, McMaster, etc. Needed a couple AN960-10L (thin) washers and they let me buy them individually (just an example, other stuff in the order of course as shipping is not included).

No issues with ATS, McFarlane, or Univair either. Though for AOG I do call the latter if really need it to go out the same day as put up online. Textron is good too, though pricey often.

Actually feel fortunate that we have so many good vendors in this space - plenty of examples elsewhere less good...
 
eman1200 said:
I shouldn’t speak for kyleb (no relation to ryanb) but I believe he’s pretty much saying the same thing.
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He is and I agreed with him when I said, "you have now provided one example." If the OP wants to take his business elsewhere that is his prerogative. Inventory mistakes happen and while they can be frustrating for the one waiting for the part it should be understood that such is life sometimes. I'm just not certain this is worthy of it's own thread ...
 
I don't mind the thread, ish happens and it's handy to vent sometimes, but the whingeing thread title in caps is pure dramallama and I dislike it intensely.
 
QUOTE="SoonerAviator, post: 3404515, member: 20765"]Which tells me they aren't a publicly traded company, as the accountants would be having a conniption over billing prior to shipment/delivery of the products. Creates revenue-recognition problems that Sarbanes Oxley is designed to avoid.[/QUOTE]

Wrong answer. Debit account number [some number beginning with a 1] - 'Cash'. Credit account number [some number beginning with a 2] - 'Unearned Revenue'. Easy peasy.

Account number [some number beginning with a 4] - 'Revenue' is untouched and this sort of accounting entry is perfectly normal and entirely legitimate. There's no accounting issue at all.

The thing that will bite them in the ass is the FTC Mail Order Rule, but even that can often be complied with for 6 weeks while they still have your money that they haven't earned yet. If no ETA is specified at the initiation of the order, that is how long they have without any obligation to do or say anything. That is a ****-poor business practice, but there is nothing stopping them from having such practices.

The OP may or may not have been given an ETA, as defined by the rule. Even if they were, there's still some wiggle room for ACS to screw with them for some number of days while they are holding on to their money.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Depends on their software for rev rec. They could debit cash and credit a liability and be fine.
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If any Accounting Department is limited by software that doesn't allow for an Unearned Revenue journal entry, they need to fire the person who chose that software and anyone who knew about that limitation and didn't get rid of that useless software.
 
schmookeeg said:
This isn't a software problem. This is a problem of having large warehouses with thousands of fiddly little SKUs, many of which are indistinguishable from one another. Shipping the wrong thing, too much of a thing, or just setting it aside while picking the order will render the data stale and unreliable and at some point, someone disappointed.

That they corrected it immediately after OP's harrowing ordeal means they have people trying to keep the sand castle made of cake frosting upright. But entropy reigns.
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Tell me you've never worked in a warehouse without telling me you've never worked in warehouse. :)

Bar codes, quality checks, taking periodic inventory. No system is perfect, but it's not like it's hard to get the vast majority of your orders right.
 
172andyou said:
Bar codes, quality checks, taking periodic inventory. No system is perfect, but it's not like it's hard to get the vast majority of your orders right.
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Which they do. Don't need to do bar codes though. I've got over 30,000 part numbers in my system, and barcode exactly 0 of them. We take a physical top to bottom inventory once a year - last year our counts were off on 5 items and were off less than piece count total of 10 on a shipment count of over 125000 items for the year and currently 34000+ units in stock.
 
172andyou said:
Bar codes, quality checks, taking periodic inventory. No system is perfect, but it's not like it's hard to get the vast majority of your orders right.
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Which ACS does.

Are you telling me you think they pull out and put a tape measure for all of the pieces of SCAT and SCEET or that they count AN-3 bolts? That's the kind of thing that results in $700 hammers in the military. I'm sure ACS does a fine job inventorying high value items, but I'd bet they are on a very infrequent schedule of taking physical inventory of the low value items.
 
kyleb said:
Which ACS does.

Are you telling me you think they pull out and put a tape measure for all of the pieces of SCAT and SCEET or that they count AN-3 bolts? That's the kind of thing that results in $700 hammers in the military. I'm sure ACS does a fine job inventorying high value items, but I'd bet they are on a very infrequent schedule of taking physical inventory of the low value items.
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I've never had to inventory scat tubes or other linear items. But I do know the answer for things like bolts. They weigh them.
 
172andyou said:
I've never had to inventory scat tubes or other linear items. But I do know the answer for things like bolts. They weigh them.
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Almost everything linear is pulled out, measured and cut - rope, chain, cables, tubing, carpet, etc. The only exception I can think of in my career is paper, which is measured in radius, and implies length and weight.

I can confirm weighing hardware. Usually something like - count 10 and weigh to set the each weight for the scale, then count by weight.
 
EdFred said:
Which they do. Don't need to do bar codes though. I've got over 30,000 part numbers in my system, and barcode exactly 0 of them. We take a physical top to bottom inventory once a year - last year our counts were off on 5 items and were off less than piece count total of 10 on a shipment count of over 125000 items for the year and currently 34000+ units in stock.
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How are the skus identified and how many of the 30k are you using? I've seen a million part numbers in a system, but there were only about 400 in active inventory.

Nobody knows all 30k part numbers by heart. You might not have them barcoded, but you have a way to identify them and where they are. Simple human FPE will cause about .5% inventory accuracy error.
 
Stevel said:
If any Accounting Department is limited by software that doesn't allow for an Unearned Revenue journal entry, they need to fire the person who chose that software and anyone who knew about that limitation and didn't get rid of that useless software.
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We aren't talking about it not being able to be done. I'm saying it's an additional step/risk to deal with at month-end where you're checking every billed transaction to see if it actually shipped and then doing an entry to record billed but not shipped/partial shipments against unearned revenue. It would just be an odd arrangement for a retail company when it would simplify just about everything by not billing until shipment is processed. If something takes months to ship, the reconciliation of that Unearned Revenue account can get messy when we're dealing with thousands of transactions per month.
 
Spruce said:
Upon receipt, the package should be opened promptly and material checked against the packing slip enclosed. Items out-of-stock at time of shipment will be marked as back-ordered to follow.� These items will not be charged on the invoice enclosed with the package and will be forwarded as soon as delivery is received from our suppliers. The backordered items will not be charged until shipped. About 90% of the items featured in our catalog are carried in stock. Special items of hardware, bearings, unusual fittings and slow moving items are special ordered as required. However, even with the large inventory we carry, it is not uncommon to come up short� on some items. If an item is missing and not marked backordered�, please advise us immediately by mail or call our Customer Service Dept.
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Not that there is anything wrong with rampant speculation… but are you sure it was a charge and not a pre-auth/hold on your credit card?
 
172andyou said:
Tell me you've never worked in a warehouse without telling me you've never worked in warehouse. :)

Bar codes, quality checks, taking periodic inventory. No system is perfect, but it's not like it's hard to get the vast majority of your orders right.
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Are we saying something different?
 
bflynn said:
How are the skus identified and how many of the 30k are you using? I've seen a million part numbers in a system, but there were only about 400 in active inventory.

Nobody knows all 30k part numbers by heart. You might not have them barcoded, but you have a way to identify them and where they are. Simple human FPE will cause about .5% inventory accuracy error.
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Around 10,000. No skus. Mark 20 eyeball to identify based on product label. Segregated and organized by vendors/families/sizes.
 
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