Air Wagner..... He’s baaaaackk.

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Mike Blackburn, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies En-Route

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    What if Jerry flew the Raptor? :idea:
     
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  2. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Actually I do see horrors in many of his IFR procedures. But you are right - at some point a pilot is so bad some of us see horrors in deviations we'd let go with someone else. I guess others of us so used to him being a procedural buffoon that we see something like this as so minor as to be pretty insignificant.
     
  3. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    It’s the fact that he holds himself up as an example of what to do that bugs me. And the fact that he doesn’t seem to care when he screws up.
     
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  4. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Administrator Management Council Member

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    I'm gonna be sharing skies with this dude now. :eek:
     
  5. TCABM

    TCABM Pattern Altitude

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    Normalization of deviance with respect to Jerry’s ability to operate within established norms?
     
  6. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Worse. He comes up with an excuse to explain why he didn't really screw up.
     
  7. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    "NORCAL, request."

    "Go ahead"

    "request vectors to deviate 40 degrees left or right of course to avoid the clown in the 421."
     
  8. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sure. Arguably, though there is a flip side. Zero tolerance.
     
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  9. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    He didn't turn back, he said "Actually it's a right turn but I'm just gonna..." and then he did nothing and then there was a jump cut to later in the flight. He kept the left turn going according to the ground track that someone screenshotted, and never came close to going to the first fix. Thus not only a dangerous early turn but also violated his ATC clearance.
     
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  10. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I wonder where that screenshot is from. I looked at the flight on Flightaware and it doesn't even show the flight until after the turn.
    upload_2021-7-14_14-32-21.png
     
  11. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    Maybe he was too low to be picked up and skimming the trees...
     
  12. Flying Keys

    Flying Keys Filing Flight Plan

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    Flightradar24. Search N513SJ on July 7th. It is completely consistent with the video and his (denial-ridden) narrative.

    Not sure why FA wouldn’t pick it up, but maybe FR24 picked up his ADS-B early versus the radar track of FlightAware?
     
  13. Flying Keys

    Flying Keys Filing Flight Plan

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    Regardless, where FA picks up the track is about a mile or more south of EBYIB, consistent with the early turn-out.
     
  14. Flying Keys

    Flying Keys Filing Flight Plan

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    Also, did a little more digging - turns out the early turn-out put him in more danger than he thought. The terrain (and trees) are much higher to the immediate W and WSW of the airport, versus relatively flat terrain along the runway heading and ODP departure course to EBYIB. Of course, he couldn’t see that.

    You can see for yourself by downloading the .kml from FR24 and plugging it into Google Earth.

    Jerry got lucky. He needs to admit that to himself, his viewers, and fix the problem, starting with his attitude.
     
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  15. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach

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    Well not complying with an ODP would logically reduce terrain separation. That’s why there is an ODP.
     
  16. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    At this point I can't go back to the 7th with the free account.
     
  17. Flying Keys

    Flying Keys Filing Flight Plan

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    Ah, the joys of having a subscription. :cool:
     
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  18. Flying Keys

    Flying Keys Filing Flight Plan

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    Oh, completely. That’s literally the antidote to “well I figured it would be this because of that,” and why, combined with a very low ceiling/vis takeoff, we could be discussing a different outcome.

    The discussion is good - necessary, even. We learn from this.
     
  19. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    He said "294 to first intersection", he had it plotted on his mfd right in front of him. He just went into a left bank immediately after take off. That's what I saw that was scary, keep the wings level, slight adjustments, rw heading ( which was 294) until 400 agl.

    The other thing he does is hit the VTF button during the turn to intercept. Cracks me up every time, he really needs someone to show him how to use those avionics.
     
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  20. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The VTF at OAK makes a little sense. He doesn't have VNV autopilot capability and the glidepath does keep you above the stepdowns. And, with his GTN. the stepdown fixes and altitudes are all there. So all he's really doing is making the FAF the active waypoint so the glidepath becomes active. Activating the leg to the FAF may be better technique but the net result on this approach with his equipment is the same. That said, Jerry does overuse it - uses it when not needed for that. But it does lead to the possibility of a stabilized approach with a single configuration change.

    whether he is using it that way is another question.
     
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  21. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Pattern Altitude

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  22. Hang 4

    Hang 4 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Stick a synonym for poop in the asterisks above to go to the right place
     
  23. Steve Costello

    Steve Costello Pre-takeoff checklist

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  24. N1120A

    N1120A Pattern Altitude

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    Eh, he (not me) was trying to convince another guy to not go in. We have had several good laughs about how you and Ed think I'm him.
     
  25. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    This is gold. Just pure gold. Could not have written this up better, myself. It's all covered - down to the personal secondary minimums.

    And this is a great blast-from-the-past:

    [​IMG]

    A perfect example of how one needs to fly to JCS in order to obtain the elusive JWR which allows one to file (or not!) JFR.
     
  26. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    looks like a perfectly stable approach to me 1120A.
     
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  27. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    N1120A = Jerry Wagner


    I can prove it....

    N is the 14th letter of the alphabet. JW flies a 421.... there is a 1 and a 4 in 421!
    11 - There are 11 letters in J-e-r-r-y-W-a-g-n-e-r !!!
    20 - Twenty letters in Cessna Golden Eagle 421 !!!!
    A - Auburn starts with A !!!!!

    Proof!!! N1120A - Jerry Wagner
     
  28. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Argues about how he used his call sign but yet only replies with “3SJ.” :rolleyes:
     
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  29. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    I would have pointed that out but so many people do it most don't even realize it's incorrect.
     
  30. Z06_Mir

    Z06_Mir Pattern Altitude

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    And yet a 421 crashed in Monterey, meanwhile Jerry escapes unharmed... yet again.
     
  31. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, it’s not a big deal or anything but if he’s gonna argue about proper comms, at least use a good example.
     
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  32. iamtheari

    iamtheari Administrator Management Council Member

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    I'm late to the party, but I watched the beginning of the July 7 flight video. While he is on hold waiting for his clearance by phone, he says "the missed approach is climbing left turn ... so I assume we're gonna get a left turn out of here." When he briefs the departure plate, you can hear the confirmation bias solidifying when he reads "direct EBYIB and left turn via track 190..."

    Shortly after liftoff, seemingly in a rush (e.g., it's just under 2 seconds between "back pressure" and "pull the gear up" in his continuous monologue, and no mention of "positive rate"), he is already in a left turn when he starts thinking about the procedure. That confuses him temporarily about his expected turn to 294 for the first leg of the departure. Had he really engaged mentally with his before takeoff check, which did include "DG double-check" and presumably at least eyes on the runway heading being right around 294, he would have known that 294 is straight out with no turns necessary.

    It was really hard to watch as he continued turning to the left, farther away from the obvious magenta line on the glass panel directly in front of him. Nobody wants to be children of the magenta line, but actively steering away from the line isn't the answer.

    My assessment is that he had "left turn out of here" in his head from his preflight thought process and departure briefing and his mental bandwidth was fully engaged in the hard IFR departure he was hand-flying, with no extra left over to think through and understand the departure procedure as he was flying it. That's the take-away lesson from this episode of Air Wagner. There is always time to chair-fly the first two minutes of your departure before applying takeoff power and doing so might catch something that you were about to do wrong.

    Jerry is proof that it's better to be lucky than good. The rest of us can't rely on that luck. Imagine making the same mistake (assuming without challenge that the presence of a turn on a missed approach procedure means that your departure clearance will include the same turn) someplace like KJAC or KEGE, especially in a plane that doesn't climb as well as a lightly-loaded 421 at sea level.
     
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  33. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    But, but, but, he's a great IFR pilot! Best I've ever flown with. :rolleyes:
     
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  34. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    I agree about his thought process and giving too much weight to a missed approach procedure rather than the assigned DP. But it was an RNAV departure and all he had to do was follow his course guidance, no thinking was even necessary. All those fancy avionics, glass displays, and automation, and he still screwed it up in a fantastic way.
     
  35. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I agree with the overall analysis, but I would replace the reference to the "magenta line" (which is only for situational awareness) with the pink CDI needle on his HSI.
     
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  36. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    I've been watching the previous video where he flies to LLR. I don't know enough about the GTN or GPS to figure out what's going on here, but after being cleared Direct the IAF/IF of SAVJO, and is cleared for the approach, he activates VTF just after SAVJO...why? In fact, it is part of his checklist to activate VTF before the FAF on every approach :confused2:

    Also somehow (around 11:10) on his way to the IAF/IF he gets off course quite a bit, with GPSS engaged, can't figure that one out either.
     
  37. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    No, there is something either wrong with his avionics, or wrong with how he is using them. I believe that system should be able intercept and fly that approach while in nav mode. He finds it necessary to switch to VTF during the turn or it will blow through the final approach course. I don't know enough about his set up, but I doubt that is the recommended method to fly an approach that isn't vectored. Unfortunately that is a problem if you don't want to ask for help from a knowledgeable CFII.
     
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  38. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    I half think Jerry’s an Faa plant to spur discussions like this as a training aide. But when I read the comments on YouTube from his fans, I don’t think it’s worth it.
     
  39. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    I don't think you are him, but you have kissed his ass so much in this thread and other with your comments that it is near impossible to distinguish you as two separate individuals.
     
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  40. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    you talk to jerry about this stuff? what a conversation that must be.......


    "not-jerry": hey jerry, I got something for you hehe, you're gonna love this, it's pretty funny.

    jerry: (stops combing his mustache) what's up, "not-jerry"? I was just about to go do some unusual attitudes in low IFR in mountainous terrain with my wife and BFF onboard. or as I like to call it, "an approach". wanna go?

    "not-jerry": hehe, maybe another time. so I was online where people were totally trashing everything you do as a pilot....

    jerry: oh yeah, youtube?

    "not-jerry": nnno, the other place online that points out how horrible of a pilot you are.

    jerry: oh, you mean r/flying?

    "not-jerry": hehe, no, not that one.

    jerry: was it r/shttyaskflying? those guys are great!

    "not-jerry": nope, the OTHER other place that always trashes you. you know, they take screenshots of you in 60 degree banks, descending at 2500fpm below minimums, full deflection off the localizer....

    jerry: you sure it isn't reddit?

    "not-jerry": why don't we just call it 'the internet'. the internet, where pretty much everyone thinks you're a horrible pilot.

    jerry: the internet is groovy.

    "not-jerry": well this is also groovy....so every time the internet is talking about how bad you are at flying, hehe, well, hehe, they think I'm you hehehe. pretty funny, right? gosh that's a doozie!

    jerry: so wait, every time they talk about my poor flying skills, they are actually talking about you? but you don't even have a mustache....

    "not-jerry": no, they aren't talking about ME, they are talking about YOU but they think I'm you.

    jerry: so who's actually the horrible pilot? can't be me, I have the aviator shades to prove it!

    "not-jerry": uh, hehe, it's you, clearly, but they think you and me are the same person.

    jerry: but we're not.

    "not-jerry": hehe, yeah, that's where it's, like, kinda funny.

    jerry: hey, two horrible pilots don't make one good pilot!

    "not-jerry": you got a point there, jerry.....who isn't me.

    jerry: hey man, cool story bro. thanks for riding along!!

    "not-jerry": enjoy your approach.