After Take Off Emergencies: 5 New Methods

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TURNBACKS400AGL

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JAY VEGA EFATO5 CFI. Ret.
ROTAT KINDS= Reduction Of Thrust After Take Off

Most piston engine fails are the ROTAT kind. A Reduction Of Thrust AFTER Take off. I had 3 engine failures on piston single engine in the 3,000 hours that i flew and taught on pistons in South America old airplanes in the 1980's, And teaching EFATO and ROTAT emergencies in USA in the 1990’s. 2 of the 3 I had were partial power and after take off. One was total. Cherokee 180/150hp.

One, fuel pressure, the other a bad cylinder. Gave me a lot of experience and insight about them. I also had to do an idle Turnback from 700 agl with no power on Cherokee, fuel pressure dropping. I will share details here. By 1994, after I studied the 3 events I had, I created maneuvers and methods to do ROTAT Turnaround the airport and Turnbacks to nearest runways. 3 Good Turnbacks saved me from crashing on houses. I taught ROTAT’s on 4,700 long runway before I went to fly Private Jets in 1997.

In 1995, I made the first video ever in the world about 400 agl Turnbacks, vs Turnarounds maneuvers doing REAL LANDINGS. Also what I called “The Low Altitude Pull Syndrome” that makes pilot do sudden stalls (Lately I call It The Panic Pulls). Flight Indicators and power indicators I created too. Also what is called lately “A DMMS Line”. I showed on the video Bush Pilots Tricks to land tailwind, and new engine test tricks too. New flap tricks for shorter To/Lndgs too shown on video, 1st time ever.

I commented on many youtube accidents videos along with 3 of my students. Have more.


There are 2 basic kinds of partial power engine fails ROTATs/Reduction of Thrust After Take Off

1-The Engine Vibration ROTAT with some power reduction that kills the climb.
2-The Surging Engine ROTAT. The Engine Cutting on and off ROTAT (The worst ROTAT).

On the “”Vibration ROTAT” you sort of lose the climb power. Most fixed pitch prop engines lose 400/500 rpm, to around 1,900 rpm more or less. It is a partial power lost only. If so, if over 400 agl, you can still Turnback or Turnaround airport if know how to before. Dont know ? Dont go there, good luck crashing outside the airport. Lean mixture and SOME carb heat apply after lowering the nose. I will explain the 2 maneuvers to do if over 400 agl, with partial power ROTAT. The Engine cutting or Surging on and off ROTAT, is the most dangerous and complicated and you might not turn much as you can with partial power over 1,800 rpm like in the partial power “Vibration ROTAT.

Before you practice any ROTAT, even partial power, YOU SHOULD ADD 3 indicators. 1,800 rpm is around The Minimum Level Power on most singles. You should put a mark on the Minimum Level Power at your TPA on RPM indicator. Also a blue line on Vglide speed. I show them on my 1995 video. Those indicators make it easier to do emergency maneuvering. Specially Emergency Low Maneuvering under TPA (ELM). ELM is the most dangerous and difficult maneuvering. No room for big pilot errors or pilot ignorance. All pilots should know ELM before PPL. But most don’t in USA.

The Vibration ROTAT;

Most times is one cylinder failed and you are on 3 only, if 4 cylinder engine. You lose all climb mostly.

1-Nose down to reduce angle of attack. 2- Lean Mixture a bit 3- Carb on a bit too. Dont exaggerate those. Change tanks while calling “Mayday on climb out and need to return”. If over 400 agl, but under 700 agl, consider to Teardrop Turnback, Tell to clear the runway, Im doing a Teardrop.

ROTAT Teardrop Turnback is done only with over the Minimum Level Power. Teardrops have 2 turns, 1st one to the right or away from wind direction to make room (Away from any crosswind if any) and 2nd Turn to go to align on runway. Practice them on sim first. Easier to practice over a road or highway at say 600 agl & Vglide speed. Better to do it with a direct crosswind. Select a spot to start and finish the teardrop turn.

First turn away from wind, second turn, into the wind always for lower ground speed to align. Do a few each way, until you get used to. They are fun to do precision maneuvers that can save you later on if well done, or kill you if done bad way. So do them right by practicing well.

I created years ago, a method easier to remember, The 414 Teardrop Rule. Practice it first using The 600 agl, Vglide speed slow flight with 10 degr. Flaps. 1- Right Turn, or away from crosswind if any. 40 degrees away. 2-Fly at Vglide about 1k feet away from place to go back to. 3- Turn 40 degrees of bank to go align. The 414 Teardrop Turnback. You can do Teadrop Turnbacks on 4 places, GRM Double Flyovers, Box Canyon Turnbacks, Circling Approaches Turnbacks and ROTAT”s of course. You do them at about Vglide use some flaps for safety. The 414 Turnback.

After you know the 414 Turnbacks, consider take off climb outs at an angle to at least do the first leg of the teardrop turnback if engine trouble, open door, hard bird strike, fire or any requirement to turnback, not just turnaround the airport. Some pilots call turnaround accidents “you see, another turnback accident”. They are so wrong. Dont know those maneuvers.

THE SURGING ROTAT or engine surging. = Engine cutting on and off to under MLP line.

Surging ROTATS can be very tricky. They can fool you into doing a quick Turnaround or a Turnback because you are getting lots of sudden power, but then you lose it all too. If lose it in the middle of those maneuvers you might crash short. It is mostly a fuel problem. So even if over the 400 agl, after nose a bit down to Vglide, fuel pump check on & change tanks in 3-4 seconds tops, look for a landing spot ahead of the wings and headwind before either turnback or turnaround maneuver.


First you lower nose, then change tanks and be close to the 700 agl before Turnback to opposite or side runway with quicker Hook Turnback, not Teardrop (I will detail Hook Turnbacks later on) and dont think about going around the airport, a turnaround is much longer than any kind of turnback, the engine can cut out before you complete the longer turnaround. = Dont try any turn to airport under 400 agl if engine is cutting out to under MLP, Be a Turnback or a Turnaround maneuver.

Threat an Engine Surge as an engine fail in next surge. I had one on Cherokee 140, at 600 agl, waited to 700 agl and did a Hook Turnback. 1993, Cherokee 140. Clogged fuel filter.

I created a method for no power Hook Turnback Maneuver I call “The 777 no power Turnback Rule”. of ROTATS. I will post about 777 Hook Turnback on another post. Practice first the 414 Teardrops.

A Turnback is not a Turnaround maneuver. A Turnaround means Turning Around something, like the airport in this case. Like on Turns around a point maneuver. On Turnbacks you don’t turn around anything, just descend to closest runway be behind you if you know how, or to the sides. Those are two very different maneuvers that need to be practiced, or don’t do them at all. Many in USA don’t know.

Many pilots call an accident on A Turnaround, as “Another Turnback accident”, Or “he was trying An 180”. Neither are. Many pilots dont know these 3 maneuvers. They are confused. They talk about turnbacks. But don’t know them all. Turnbacks are Teardrop Kind, or Hook Kind. I taught both kinds to a 4,700’ runway in my 1990’s CFI years. I have videos doing 4 turnbacks to a 4,000 long runway and landing with constant 16 knot tailwinds. On Cherokee Warrior, 1995, Sebastian Airport, Florida.

-------------------MORE ON ANOTHER POST DUE SIZE RESTRICTIONS HERE
 
Interesting. I’m not a fan of mnemomics; they may be helpful for some but not all, me included.

In either scenario, the bottom line is identifying full power is not being produced, then safely land as soon as possible, whether on field or not.
 
A lot of this seems like just rebranding existing ideas with new names or acronyms.

e.g.,
ROTAT == power loss (of some kind)
Vibration ROTAT == Continuous engine operation but w/partial power loss; often accompanied by engine running rough
Surge ROTAT == Intermittent total power loss
Turnback = Turning around

A Turnback is not a Turnaround maneuver. A Turnaround means Turning Around something, like the airport in this case. Like on Turns around a point maneuver. On Turnbacks you don’t turn around anything, just descend to closest runway be behind you if you know how, or to the sides. Those are two very different maneuvers that need to be practiced, or don’t do them at all. Many in USA don’t know.
I'll be honest, this seems like pedantry. In english, "turning back" and "turning around" are used interchangeably. No one executing an emergency turn towards the airport is going to think "I'm going to execute a ground reference maneuver and turn around a point".

Threat an Engine Surge as an engine fail in next surge. I had one on Cherokee 140, at 600 agl, waited to 700 agl and did a Hook Turnback. 1993, Cherokee 140. Clogged fuel filter.
Glad that it worked out for you, but flying further away from the field with a crippled engine on the bet that you'll be able to climb higher with that crippled engine is not a winning proposition IMHO.
If the only safe terrain was behind me and my engine is dying, I'd start turning back sooner rather than later.

After you know the 414 Turnbacks, consider take off climb outs at an angle to at least do the first leg of the teardrop turnback if engine trouble, open door, hard bird strike, fire or any requirement to turnback, not just turnaround the airport. Some pilots call turnaround accidents “you see, another turnback accident”. They are so wrong. Dont know those maneuvers.
This is not an option at many, if not most airports, due to tower or other traffic. I cannot get wheels-up at my airport then fly at an angle to the runway on takeoff/climbout on the off chance of engine failure or a bird strike. Also, there is no need to begin an early/emergency return because of an open door.


I agree with @TCABM that the only thing that really matters here is identifying the problem of a lack of power and finding the best available option to put it down.
 
It also depends on what GA contraption you’re flying, no? Lancair vs my canard-182? Chute vs no chute (assuming high enough to deploy)?

Also, wouldn’t you turn INTO crosswind to stay closer to the field?
 
Sorry. As soon as I hear a new acronym for something that's existed for a long time, my interest in going further disappears.

If you are talking about partial power loss in flight, I've had three. One immediately after takeoff; one in the departure climb; and one at altitude. All three resulted in successful landings without even one mnemonic going through my head.
 
Like many others, I’m strongly opposed to the use of acronyms - unless they’ve evolved into standalone words with distinct meanings, like NOTAM. In high-stress situations, acronyms offer little help. They slow you down by forcing mental translation. If I lose power during takeoff, do I have to stop and try to remember what ROTAT stands for?
 
The "turnback" is what is colloquially referred to as the "impossible turn". If you perform it successfully, it wasn't impossible at all. Rich Stowell has called the "improbable turn".
 
The "turnback" is what is colloquially referred to as the "impossible turn". If you perform it successfully, it wasn't impossible at all. Rich Stowell has called the "improbable turn".
... and less improbable with partial power.
 
So new member comes here to post his thesis to create a new name and acronym for an old problem.
 
Oh yes, but the "impossible turn" (mis)label still exists.

I once ran a detailed calculation and found that while factors like weight, wind, power, and bank angle all play a role, the most critical variable is runway length - specifically, how much runway remains ahead of you from the point of liftoff. Returning to the exact spot where you took off is extremely difficult. Depending on the difference between your climb and descent angles, it may even be "impossible". On a very long runway, however, the only altitude you truly need is enough to complete a roughly 200-degree turn, plus a margin to glide back for a short landing. About 400 ft is plenty in some cases.

I routinely ask my students when they would consider attempting a turnback. Most say around 1,000 feet AGL. Then I put them in a simulator on a 2,000-foot runway and cut the engine at exactly 1,000 feet. So far, none have made it back to the runway. When I raise the cutoff to 1,500 feet, some manage to return - but just barely, often scraping treetops and flirting with a stall. Then I switch to a 5,000-foot runway. This time, everyone makes it back with room to spare.
 
I routinely ask my students when they would consider attempting a turnback. Most say around 1,000 feet AGL.
I've heard the same answer. I ask, "have you tried it as a simulated engine out in flight?" It's often a"no," to which I respond, "then how do you know whether it will work?"
 
I routinely ask my students when they would consider attempting a turnback. Most say around 1,000 feet AGL.

That seems to be about where a turnback would be successful but there are caveats to consider. The runway length, wind direction, partial power, or no power are but a few of them. In my aircraft at 1,000' I'm near or turning onto the downwind leg of the pattern depending on my route of departure. 1,000' departing straight out is another kettle of fish ...
 
Sort of a meaningless post here. If you haven't been around, its much verbage over something that in reality is easy. If your rate of climb is greater than your rate of power off descending turn minus startle effect and time to set up a landing, then possibilities open. If not, straight ahead.

The OP forgets wind, startle effect, departure obstacles, confidence in making it work, slow flight experience, the actual chances of an engine starting or fixing itself . . . and reduces is down to a complex decision tree of engine start procedures or mental rules. The sort of overthinking that is done from an easy chair.

No.

Give me a grizzled old CFI who knows stick and rudder every time.

Run away from factory flight school CFIs who want clever procedures and checklist fundamentalism in an low and slow emergency. . . too many stall into the ground short of the runway. And ignore the mental lock up that happens due to startle effect.

Just memorize this and make it your religion:

Just fly the plane first and foremost.

Don't panic, don't stall. First move is to lower the nose. Keep it coordinated and gentle. Remind yourself the insurance company now owns the plane. Make a plan, scan the possibilities on the ground (you should never takeoff without a plan in mind).
Undo what you last did if you have time, grab carb heat, check full fuel tank and call it good. Then set up for a landing.

A lot of smoking holes in the ground are done by pilots who forget to keep the wind over the wings and think that a complex procedure under 1000' AGL in a hurry up low and slow turn is able to be done and still have time for a feather like landing back on a runway.


The video is an engine sag that didn't respond to full throttle, fuel vent issue. Crop duster turn, had to remind myself halfway through not to hurry with rudder. The moment my foot moved, I remembered the sentence from the book "Stick and Rudder" - I literally did. Don't hurry a turn with rudder, ever. Pulled the foot back, not a great landing, but considering, good enough. The intitial sag was hard to hear as I was going from tail down to running on the mains. On climbout, the engine simply refused to make full power.

The 2600 foot runway I fly out of now has a 45 seconds after throttle opens emergency window - if you lose an engine or have an issue going north, you aren't going to have very many choices so you have to know that. Rather than altitude, I use time and distance.
 
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On my flight reviews I focus on emergencies. Last one the CFI had me simulate a take off loss of power and attempt at a return to the field. We did it over the airport at 2000 AGL, simulated the takeoff roll and departure while we were overflying the runway and pulled power at different points. Out of habit I would turn left, but we had a right crosswind. Made quite a beneficial difference turning into the wind. It’s a pretty good thing to try. I made it work in my contraption.
 
Airplane engines have been crapping out since before the OX and Jenny. Gee, I'm glad someone finally figured it all out. :rolleyes:
 
The insurance company owns the airplane. I merely pay for everything and have fun with it. Engine out in the air? Putting it down in the most safe location where everyone is alive and well. At which time the insurance company gets physical possession and I go back to sailing. I have zero interest in attempting to return to the runway.
 
ROTAT Teardrop Turnback is done only with over the Minimum Level Power. Teardrops have 2 turns, 1st one to the right or away from wind direction to make room (Away from any crosswind if any) and 2nd Turn to go to align on runway. Practice them on sim first. Easier to practice over a road or highway at say 600 agl & Vglide speed. Better to do it with a direct crosswind. Select a spot to start and finish the teardrop turn.

First turn away from wind, second turn, into the wind always for lower ground speed to align. Do a few each way, until you get used to. They are fun to do precision maneuvers that can save you later on if well done, or kill you if done bad way. So do them right by practicing well.
No, no, no! You do NOT make your first turn "away from wind", you turn INTO the wind and let it help you back to the centerline. You'll need less of a turn if you turn into the wind, and your glide will last longer.

If you turn away from the wind, you may not be able to make it back to the centerline, period.

As for the rest, I'm now highly skeptical.
 
Is it just me or does this sound like AI generated B.S.?

I couldn't read past the first several lines, so maybe it got better?

I gave up when I saw a 150hp Cherokee 180.

I can’t understand how people can read AI generated drivel like this and think we’re ready for AI pilots flying airliners.
 
Guaranteed it wasn’t written by a pilot. On the slight chance that it was, it’s not from a pilot who’s had an actual failure in a single engine at low altitude.
 
I prefer a Button Hook (Tm) Return to Airport or Airport Grass (pat pend) whenever experiencing the old Chugga Chugga from the motor. I’ve been doing for years, but no one in the USA knows this one small trick.
 
So many non do talkers guys here. I did the first video ever IN THE WORLD about 5 kinds of engine fails AFTER take off in 1995. I put a blue line on 1.4 of Vso for Vglide and 3 more on ASI and RPM for Minimum Level Power too and more extra indicators since 1993 i used to teach 5 kinds of EFATO. The blue line i put on Vglide is is called DMMS since the millenium.

Video is on CFITOMAHAWK channel, one of my students have it too. I have the proof. Why so many arrogant ignorant pilots in USA GA? Disgusting. No wonder they do so many pilot errors.
 
Guaranteed it wasn’t written by a pilot. On the slight chance that it was, it’s not from a pilot who’s had an actual failure in a single engine at low altitude.
Ha ha and ha! I soloed at 17 y o, on a class D busy airport on a cherokee doing short approaches. 1969. Was Bush Pilot in So America in 1980's after college and working as MechanicEngineer. Want to bet on that? You will lose.. 73 years old now. I still fix all in my 2 Jeeps. LOL..
 
and never to be heard from again
No, this is not Dan Gryder. Im not fat, and i can do Turnbacks from 400 at MLP on many singles. So many arrogant ignorants here insulting instead of debating the points like real men do. EFATO Ignorant insulting the ones that practice them. Like fat people insulting a Gymnast . Disgusting Arrogant Ignorants with a pilot license. Future crashes.
 
I prefer a Button Hook (Tm) Return to Airport or Airport Grass (pat pend) whenever experiencing the old Chugga Chugga from the motor. I’ve been doing for years, but no one in the USA knows this one small trick.
My video i do Hook Turnback no power from 600 agl. Cherokee. 1995. Sebastian Airport 4,000 long runway. The strong winds of that day made me climb good angle to 600. Had to use flaps tricks and cut all mixture on the turn. Stopped it on 3,500 of runway. Have the video.
 
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