AFM Limitations and Supplements

[Martin Pauly]

I sometimes see people struggling with understanding the significance of POH & AFM limitations, and the role of the various AFM supplements we carry around in our airplanes (and which some of us have even read ). I thought a little video on the topic could help shed some light on it.

 

[Mike Gagnon]

Nice. This made me pull mine out for a re-read of the limitations sections. I found some sections I didn’t pay much attention to the last time I reviewed them, which was prior to starting work on my instrument rating. Those are now relevant.


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[RingLaserGyroSandwich]

Nothing shocking there but it was a nice review as a non-owner.

 

[Jim K]

That was a great video Martin. I always thought the entire POH carried the same weight as the limitations section. You made me pull out my POH and go through it again. I also finally updated my checklists, which I've been meaning to do for some time.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I just want to point out that the Limitations section being the only FAA-Approved section applies only to “low speed” “Level 1 and Level 2” Part 23 airplanes. While this applies to most of the target audience here, the Law of Primacy might kick in when someone gets into a bigger or faster airplane.

Edit: a 7-seat PA-32, for example, takes you into Level 3.

 

[Jim K]

Edit: a 7-seat PA-32, for example, takes you into Level 3.

Interesting. Guess I have some more learning to do. Does this apply to my old CAR-3 certified plane?

While we're at it, I'm getting checked out in a 1974 Cessna 172M, and it's my first exposure to an "Owner's Manual" not laid out in the standard POH style. In this one, "limitations" are section IV. I assume that section was FAA approved? When did the FAA begin approving aircraft limitations?

 

[MauleSkinner]

Interesting. Guess I have some more learning to do.

While we're at it, I'm getting checked out in a 1974 Cessna 172M, and it's my first exposure to an "Owner's Manual" not laid out in the standard POH style. In this one, "limitations" are section IV. I assume that section was FAA approved? When did the FAA begin approving aircraft limitations?

That’s probably going to be a CAR3 reference rather than Part 23…I’m not that good at searching CAR3.

Also, I’m going to backtrack on the PA-32…that’s probably a CAR3 airplane as well.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

The aircraft may be certified under CAR 3....but all those new dew dads installed with STC ##### have something called the "change product rule". So, each new item that gets "added" to the TC with an STC has all the new stuff applied to it.

 

[Martin Pauly]

I just want to point out that the Limitations section being the only FAA-Approved section applies only to “low speed” “Level 1 and Level 2” Part 23 airplanes.

Yes, that is correct. I probably should have pointed that out in the video.

- Martin

 

[Bell206]

In this one, "limitations" are section IV. I assume that section was FAA approved? When did the FAA begin approving aircraft limitations?

No. It wasn't until 1979 that the AFM/RFM became regulatory that the AFM Limitations section became approved. Prior to that the ops limits were listed and "approved" in the TCDS/Aircraft Specification. As to "aircraft limitations approval" those have always been approved as part of a TC, ATC, or STC. Where those limitations were listed changed from the TCDS or Aircraft Specification to the AFM/RFM in 1979 but were always out there and required.

 

[Jim K]

The level 3 thing actually answers (I think) a question I always had about why basic med is limited to 6 seats.

 

[Tantalum]

my first exposure to an "Owner's Manual" not laid out in the standard POH style.

When I did my Aztec checkout (1967 C model) it was basically a pamphlet. That was my first experience