ADS-B Out Options?

Discussion in 'Avionics and Upgrades' started by Harvey Meharry, Mar 27, 2018.

  1. Harvey Meharry

    Harvey Meharry Filing Flight Plan

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    Hi All,

    Wondering what you guys and gals are doing reference to ADS-B out for your aircraft.

    We operate a basic 1979 Warrior II
    Dual Nav/Com's
    KLN-90B GPS
    Encoder Transponder

    Thanks,
    Harvey
     
  2. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Cleared for Takeoff

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    I went with a Garmin GTX345 and am very happy. In, out and Bluetooth's to ForeFlight for traffic/wx/synthetic vision/etc. If you have/get a compatible GPS (I have a GSN530W) it will give traffic and wx on there as well.
     
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  3. Harvey Meharry

    Harvey Meharry Filing Flight Plan

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    I am looking at just the min to add the ADS-B Out. I'd like a 530 but currently paying off the plane
     
  4. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    There are several somewhat lengthy threads on installing ADS-B out. You’ll need a WAAS GPS position source so that is something to keep in mind. There are a few new transponder w/WAAS GPS position source options. There are a couple of units either certified or in the process of certification that just add ADS-B out to an existing transponder equipped aircraft. Definitely a “do your homework” thing fer sure.
     
  5. Radar Contact

    Radar Contact Cleared for Takeoff

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    That was a missed important part. :)
     
  6. paflyer

    paflyer Final Approach

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    And all are pricey, installed and certified.
     
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  7. Harvey Meharry

    Harvey Meharry Filing Flight Plan

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    Thats true...lol
    :rolleyes:
     
  8. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    A GDL 82 may be in your future if it ever gets certified.
     
  9. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I went with a Garmin 330 es,just before the 345 was introduced. No complaints except the selling price of the unit.
     
  10. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    Just had a Stratus put in mine. Hope it works.
     
  11. WannFly

    WannFly En-Route

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    you can get a major alteration approval and install it from what i understand. may be @bnt83 can chime in
    http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01810-13_01.pdf

    also note that if you dont have a WAAS position source, the antenna have to be installed which drives up the installation cost. i recently got a quote for a another guy for a 182 install that doesnt have WAAS position source, the quote was about 4k installed.
     
  12. Morgan3820

    Morgan3820 Cleared for Takeoff

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    The GDL82 has been certified since December. Garmin will sell direct, allowing any AP to install. AirSpruce is selling installation harnesses.
     
  13. cgrab

    cgrab Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'm using a STRATUX with Avare on my tablet for IN and waiting patiently for the Uvonix wingtips for out. If they fall out then I'll get the GDL 82 with a second antenna.
     
  14. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The gold standard for ADS-B is either L3 Lynx 9000 or GTX-345. There are other good options, but these will have higher resale down the line. The challenge wit Status ESG product is the ADS-B in is NOT certified and cannot be displayed on certified devices.

    One of my best friends put a status in his plane, swearing he'd NEVER install a new GPS and his iPad and ForeFlight was all that he'll ever need. 18 months later the bought a GTN-650 and has to now replace his Stratus ESG.
     
  15. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Another happy GTX 345 owner.

    Not too many folks mention it, but it does a whole bunch more stuff than just the transponder and ADS-B duties. It has a number of timers, you can flip the display to see things like your reported pressure altitude (useful for troubleshooting) and even an altitude alert mode that can be set to alarm if you’re off your altitude by a configurable amount.

    I suspect the timers page will be the most useful other than showing the main transponder status and squawk. But have been playing with the GTN above it too much to spend much time in the menus on the 345.

    It’s “circular menu” user interface so it’s not as intuitive feeling as something with dedicated buttons for features, but it’s not terrible either.

    One other item to note. Your installer has to set the unit to allow it, by default on most GA light aircraft they lock it out since most don’t need it, but if you do any flying with organizations that use flight codes for ATC instead of the aircraft’s tail number, those can also be set via the front panel as well.

    Nifty little piece of kit really. Does more than I expected.
     
  16. eman1200

    eman1200 Final Approach

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Aren’t you just so special....
     
  18. Ken Ibold

    Ken Ibold Final Approach

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    Uvonix now has a tail light install for out, if their wingtip device doesn't fit.
     
  19. DwayneSmithUSMC

    DwayneSmithUSMC Pre-Flight

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    I've got a KT 74 with a Garmin 430W.
     
  20. StanN45

    StanN45 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I went Appareo Stratus ESi.
     
  21. Tom-D

    Tom-D Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Can we simply opt out? If your aircraft has an electrical system can we simply dump the transponder keep one com, and stay out of transponder required areas?
     
  22. StanN45

    StanN45 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    As per FAA.gov FAQ's....

    If I fly in airspace that does not require a transponder today, will I still be able to fly there without ADS-B Out?
    For the most part, ADS-B Out will be required in the same airspace where transponders are required. However, to be sure of the regulatory requirements it is best to check 14 CFR § 91.225 for ADS-B-designated airspace and 14 CFR § 91.215for transponder-designated airspace.
     
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  23. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    GTX-345. And we also had a King GPS (89B), but since the 345 would have cost an extra $1,000 with its own WAAS position source, we spent the $17,000 or whatever for the GTN 750 so we didn't have to spend that $1,000 - "Think of the savings," we always say :rofl: - and then a GMA 350c because "while you're in there..." and a FlightStream 510 because $1500 is a great price to not have to take a laptop to the hangar once a month, right? Ah, aviation.

    Aha! Well, in that case... If you're looking to get the install done now when the lines at the avionics shops are still somewhat manageable, the cheapest/easiest certified option is the Garmin GDL 82. No "In" capability, but it meets the regulatory requirements for the minimum spend on a certified airplane today. It basically gets stuck inline with the transponder antenna cable. It probably needs power and a new GPS antenna run, but in many installations it could be done pretty easily.

    Now, if you're willing to gamble a bit by waiting, the UAvionix SkyBeacon may be an even better option, if it lives up to their promises and the FAA gives it the green light.
     
  24. Tom-D

    Tom-D Ejection Handle Pulled

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    That's noted, when there is no more radar input to ATC and every thing has gone Geo-positioning how are ATCs going to know I'm in their airspace with out me having ADSB of some sort?
     
  25. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    They’re not. Which is why they’ve published and said multiple times that ADS-B isn’t and can’t replace radar.

    ADS-B is about surveillance of tail numbers, not primary tracking and detection.

    And since it can be spoofed, expect a new technology right on its heels that is authenticated and encrypted. Like, about the usual 20 years late or so.

    It’s AT BEST a transitional technology level. It doesn’t meet any basics let alone standards for security.
     
  26. Tom-D

    Tom-D Ejection Handle Pulled

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    This is nice, Can't wait until some one blows by SEA (or the like) tower unannounced
     
  27. Stevea621j

    Stevea621j Filing Flight Plan

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    https://www.uavionix.com/products/skybeacon/

    This looks like a viable solution for a lot of people just looking for a simple way to get ADS-B out if it does get certified. They are also developing one that will replace the tail light. Installation is simple as changing out the position light. No new wiring, no coax to run or antennae to mount.
     
  28. Possum

    Possum Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We went with the GTX335 for the Cessna 172L model. About $4500 installed. We have a Stratux and iPad mini for ADSB in. Everything works good.
     
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  29. Mooney Fan

    Mooney Fan Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Ditto Possum- The plane I have in escrow has the Garmin GTX-335 transponder which meets the ADS-B out requirement and I just ordered Stratus 1S for my ADS-B in solution
     
  30. Ryan F.

    Ryan F. Line Up and Wait

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    Having been in the aircraft ownership game a long time, and having been burned by trying to go non-standard routes with boutique manufacturers, I am firmly of the belief you should go with the market leader whenever possible. To that end there are two excellent choices at both extreme ends of the field. One is the GTX345, which I consider to be the Ferrari of the ADS-B Out transponders. It does everything: 1090ES, IN/OUT, bluetooth, AHRS, and some minor extra functions (timers, etc. - I don't use them, but some might.) It can also be remotely controlled from a GTN-series Navigator (also what I purchased.) This is widely considered to the be the best, most robust OUT solution for GA right now, perhaps with the L3 Lynx coming in a close second. (I prefer Garmin because, as previously stated, they're the market leader, and also the GTX345 plays nicely with the rest of my Garmin panel.)

    The other end of the spectrum is the GDL-82, for minimum compliance. This might be right up your alley. It's OUT only, no IN, and piggybacks off your existing transponder. That's fine for most, perhaps a bit kludgy because, well, it's piggybacking, after all. But it should work fine. You'll need to provide your own IN source, which other than perhaps being a little unwieldy with portable electronics sitting on the glareshield, power cables, etc., will give you the same functionality as any other IN solution. Pretty inexpensive, and any shop can install them.

    I was initially in the market for the Stratus ESGi but I can't think of a good reason to go with one vs. one of the two aforementioned units. I'd go with the very best, from the market leader, or the bargain basement option, also from the market leader. The other products don't give you enough of an advantage to be strong competitors to those options, again in my biased opinion only.

    You do want to think about how this will play out down the road in terms of residual value. I would lean toward the GDL-82 in your case. It's a Garmin OUT product, and it'll pay for itself someday when you sell the plane, most likely.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  31. Checkout_my_Six

    Checkout_my_Six Final Approach

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    I’m in the anything but Garmin camp. But it looks like I’ll be going with a GTX330ES.... unless a better ES solution appears over the next few years.
     
  32. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Why do you hate 'Merica?! :) :) :)
     
  33. NordicDave

    NordicDave Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Another cool feature of the GTX-345.... The unit has an OAT probe input, and with it the 345 continuously displays Density Altitude and OAT. Very cool for those of us with mountain or desert type operations.

    ADS-B in is fantastic. Really like seeing other traffic and the FIS-B weather data keeps getting better. FAA is about to release a half dozen new weather attributes for FIS-B to match the content from XM.
     
  34. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Fixed that for you. LOL.
     
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  35. Pat Elliott

    Pat Elliott Pre-Flight

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    So does the 330 / 330es
     
  36. dell30rb

    dell30rb Final Approach

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    I don't know that I would go to the trouble just to get weather on the little GTN-650 screen. Now if it was a 750 it would be worth it.
     
  37. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes, if that suits your geographic area and mission.

    It’s tougher for folks that live in/near class B/C airspace or people that need to file/fly IFR
     
  38. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    My Beech 18 came with a 530W and a Garmin 330. It was fairly easy. I upgraded the 330 to ES and paid a couple hundred to run a cable from the 530 to the 330.

    Haven’t done the Waco yet, but since I give biplane rides in/near class C, I’ll need to do something. Leaning toward the Stratus unit.

    Haven’t decided what I want to do for the T6. Still weighing options.
     
  39. JCranford

    JCranford Pattern Altitude

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    What do you do for IN? Stratus?
     
  40. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yup. Stratus and ForeFlight.
     
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