accidentally cut someone off in the pattern

[Unregistered]

Really, really dumb mistake.
Controlled field, was told to enter right base, then traffic came in on the ILS so I was moved to #2 and told to enter right downwind.

Past touchdown point I was told the traffic was on short final and was cleared to land, #2. I took this to mean traffic was already past me and advised tower I was turning base. On final he sent me around because I had turned in front of the traffic.

Stupid mistake and a very dangerous situation, especially the maneuvering I had to do low and slow to go around.

 

[Geico266]

Stuff happens. The controller did his job well.

No paint was exchanged, no foul. Learn and move on.

The masses will be along shortly recommending you get a lawyer.

 

[Archammer]

Geico hit it right. Great thing is, you'll make damn sure it doesn't happen again.

 

[frfly172]

You learned a valuable lesson,that will stay with you. Other than your ego being damaged everything else is good.

 

[dans2992]

Actually, in this case, I think the tower misused the term "short final".

If there is room for someone currently on the downwind to fly base, turn final, and still be _in front_ of the aircraft, I'm not really sure you can say that aircraft is on "short" final.

 

[BillTIZ]

He must not have heard your response that you were turning base. If he had, he should have corrected you to extend downwind "I'll call your base". Or "report traffic in sight" and once you do, "cleared to land #2"

 

[Stewartb]

How do you accept a #2 clearance without having eyes on #1? Was that the mistake you referred to?

 

[Luigi]

Ahh, a number 2 clearance, obviously this has scatological implications.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

Interesting thing about when to turn base/final. After 6 years of flying ag I have noticed my idea of an normal pattern has changed somewhat. I don't usually notice until I get back into a turbine twin and go somewhere busy. Variety is the spice of life though...


To the OP, If they clear you #2 without the traffic in sight don't accept the clearance and tell tower you don't have the traffic. That would have prevented your loss of separation. I would do a NASA form also, others can learn from your experience.

 

[Zeldman]

Ahh, a number 2 clearance, obviously this has scatological implications.

 

[Cpt_Kirk]

I've cut someone off once.

Once.

 

[jesse]

It happens, I've had it happen a number of times to me, I've yet to have a student of mine make the mistake. I drill in their head that they DO NOT turn downwind to base until they have a visual on the target. If you are unable to see it, but think you could safely turn, ask the controller.

When I'm teaching them how to spot the traffic that is on final I teach folks to start by looking at the touchdown markers and then slowly work your eyes from there and up until you've scanned all of final that you can see. Repeat. Seems to be the most successful way to spot it. YMMV

Live and learn

 

[luvflyin]

Not the first time I've heard of a pilot being led down the primrose path. I've seen it happen to others while in the pattern and it's been done to me. You should not turn base as #2 until you have #1 on final in sight. You getting in front of #1 in that situation after the controller calls him as "short final" is a poor call from the controller. He may have just "lost the picture."
I never did like it when the rule was changed that allowed #2 to get landing clearance prior to #1 crossing the threshold.

 

[SbestCFII]

Controller aside, you're solely responsible for not smacking into to anyone in VMC. Don't start a turn to base with anyone on final, short or otherwise, until you have your eyes on the target.

 

[HouTxPilot82]

Thanks for sharing this - good reminder for me to read all the comments reinforcing the need to ensure #1 is in sight.

 

[narchee]

Ahh, a number 2 clearance, obviously this has scatological implications.

I wish you hadn't said that.

Now the next time I'm cleared for number 2 I'm going to think about this.

 

[Hobobiker]

Ahh, a number 2 clearance, obviously this has scatological implications.

I just spit out some very good coffee. !@#$#@!!

 

[ScottK]

Had something similar happen a few months ago. We were on the right downwind and told to extend for a jet flying the ILS. We were #2. A Cherokee on the left downwind was #3. After extending a bit to allow the jet to clear, we turned base. Apparently, the Cherokee lost site of us and turned base directly into us. Luckily, we had him in site and turned away in time. Just goes to show that even with a tower directing traffic, you have to know where people are.

Thanks for sharing your story. Always good to be reminded.

 

[jordane93]

Live and learn. Keep an eye out for traffic or ask tower to call your base

 

[SkyDog58]

How do you accept a #2 clearance without having eyes on #1? Was that the mistake you referred to?

My first thoughts as well.

 

[MAKG1]

How do you accept a #2 clearance without having eyes on #1? Was that the mistake you referred to?

"Cleared for landing #2 runway 31 looking for traffic ahead"

Would you suggest "unable?"

 

[jesse]

"Cleared for landing #2 runway 31 looking for traffic ahead"

Would you suggest "unable?"

"Cleared to land three one, number 2, negative contact on number 1" is what I teach to be said.

 

[Shawn]

I have used this more than once after being on downwind past the threshold and cleared to land #2:

"Tower, Skylane XYZ, negative contact on #1 traffic, can you call my base?"

I won't turn base unless called or visual on #1.

 

[BillTIZ]

Had something similar happen a few months ago. We were on the right downwind and told to extend for a jet flying the ILS. We were #2. A Cherokee on the left downwind was #3. After extending a bit to allow the jet to clear, we turned base. Apparently, the Cherokee lost site of us and turned base directly into us. Luckily, we had him in site and turned away in time. Just goes to show that even with a tower directing traffic, you have to know where people are.

Thanks for sharing your story. Always good to be reminded.

Tower is only responsible for seperation of traffic on the runway, not getting to the runway.

 

[Henning]

Actually, in this case, I think the tower misused the term "short final".

If there is room for someone currently on the downwind to fly base, turn final, and still be _in front_ of the aircraft, I'm not really sure you can say that aircraft is on "short" final.

I tend to agree, that was a bit of a bad call, and the OP didn't have a visual on #1 before he turned... Live and learn, but I would file an ASRS on this pointing out the confusion caused by the terminology and timing issue.

 

[Henning]

How do you accept a #2 clearance without having eyes on #1? Was that the mistake you referred to?

"Clear to land #2, negative contact on leading traffic" is what I use when I can't see who I'm supposed to be following.

 

[Kritchlow]

I tend to agree, that was a bit of a bad call, and the OP didn't have a visual on #1 before he turned... Live and learn, but I would file an ASRS on this pointing out the confusion caused by the terminology and timing issue.

Yup. Put me in the camp of the controller leading him down the primrose path. I may have done the same thing. If I'm cleared to land without reporting traffic in sight, I have assumed they are no factor, especially when they say short final. That said, I generally would slip in that traffic is not in sight.

 

[Henning]

Yup. Put me in the camp of the controller leading him down the primrose path. I may have done the same thing. If I'm cleared to land without reporting traffic in sight, I have assumed they are no factor, especially when they say short final. That said, I generally would slip in that traffic is not in sight.

Yeah, me too, but then again, that is because I learned a similar lesson long ago.... Now if I don't KNOW that I am safe to turn for base, either verbally or visually, I don't.

 

[txflyer]

We've all made some pretty dumb ones. Don't sweat it. Nothing bent.

Flying is a sport. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

 

[Henning]

We've all made some pretty dumb ones. Don't sweat it. Nothing bent.

Flying is a sport. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Yep, we all make mistakes, learn from it and carry on. I would file an ASRS though because this is not really unique, and eventually enough similar data points will lead to a subtle change in procedure that will help prevent it; at least that's the theory behind the system.

 

[txflyer]

Yep, we all make mistakes, learn from it and carry on. I would file an ASRS though because this is not really unique, and eventually enough similar data points will lead to a subtle change in procedure that will help prevent it; at least that's the theory behind the system.

Maybe that will work to change something but if it's all the same if the controller didn't get upset or anyone else, I think less said the better unless you don't mind your name written in a report.

 

[Henning]

Maybe that will work to change something but if it's all the same if the controller didn't get upset or anyone else, I think less said the better unless you don't mind your name written in a report.

ASRS is meant to be an educational system to collect data points of hazards, that's why it was given the status it has of being potential relief from trouble. It is NOT used to gather evidence for an indictment. IOW, this type of situation is what it was designed for.