ABC....XYZ now I know my abc’s

luvflyin

luvflyin

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Luvflyin
It’s got WASS/GPS, VOR/LOC and a Mode C transponder. It does have ADSB but I don’t know what kind so put that on the back burner for now. I filed:
FAA equipment /G
ICAO equipment A, B, S
ICAO surveillance. C

How’d I do? To much? To little? What about ICAO PBN, am I supposed to put something there?
 
Not enough info to answer how you did.
 
ADS-B out or both out and in?
 
I'm guessing a GTN650 or the like. If so ICAO then should be SBGR PBN/B2C2D2
If you have a GTX345 to go along with it and it's wired correctly then surveillance should be EB2. If transponder and/or ADS-B is something else then it could be one of several things.
 
asicer said:
I'm guessing a GTN650 or the like. If so ICAO then should be SBGR PBN/B2C2D2
If you have a GTX345 to go along with it and it's wired correctly then surveillance should be EB2. If transponder and/or ADS-B is something else then it could be one of several things.
Click to expand...

No O2 or S2?
 
In the U.S., as far as I can determine, the only codes that "matter" for typical light GA aircaft are GRS and PBN code D2. I see no reason to bother filing the rest.

By "matter" I mean those codes that are going to affect the clearance you receive. PBN code D2, for example, allows the computer to assign you RNAV SIDS and STARS, which you (well, I, anyway) want instead of VOR-based SIDS/STARS. The other PBN codes don't get you anything, at least for normal GA use.

Similarly, equipment code B, indicating LPV capability, has no bearing on the approach clearance you'll receive. I've never been cleared for an LPV approach - I've only been cleared for an RNAV approach, and have then flown to LPV minimums - but ATC doesn't particularly know or care which set of minimums I fly to.
 
Here is what I use for 430w WAAS GPS, dual nav radios, Stratus ADS-B out/in:
B (LPV), D (DME), G (GNSS), R (PBN), S (VOR, VHF, ILS), C (modes A and C), U2 (ADS-B out-in), B2,C2,D2,O2,S1
 
For WAAS GPS and standard VOR/ILS equipment, I file SBGR
I have a 1090ES transponder (NGT-9000), so that is EB2 (I think if you have UAT out only, it's CU1)

For other information I file PBN/B2C2D2 for the GPS (overkill, maybe, but covers the bases), SUR/260B (for 1090ES - I think its SUR/282B for UAT) and CODE/XXXXXX (XXXXXX is your ADS-B hex code)
 
I dunno if it's correct or not, but I have SBG and LB2 and it hasn't been rejected.
430W + NGT9000
 
I did this for a post on my Facebook page. See if it helps.

upload_2020-10-14_7-49-34.png
 
midlifeflyer said:
I did this for a post on my Facebook page. See if it helps.
Click to expand...

Mark, I do like your simplified breakdown and explanations.

However, what practical effect or benefit do you see for filing "B" (for LPV)?

(You could ask me the same question in reverse, of course, "What harm is there to adding "B"? But then I could respond "then why not just file A1 B2 C2 D2"?)

I do think there is a very significant disconnect between ICAO flight plans and ATC. As far as I know from my discussions with controllers, They don't even really ever see the ICAO codes. Many of them don't even know what you're talking about, and just refer to "/G" like before. The ICAO codes seem more for the ATC computers and automated flight plan routing than anything else.
 
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RussR said:
Mark, I do like your simplified breakdown and explanations.

However, what practical effect or benefit do you see for filing "B" (for LPV)?
Click to expand...
You are probably right about B but that's true for other codes, PBN/C2 (and all the ADS-B stuff - either you have it or you don't; I've file IFR in aircraft where I haven't included it). But I figured I'd include them in my simplified filing since they are basic equipment items and we're still not drilling down too far to go overboard.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I did this for a post on my Facebook page. See if it helps.

View attachment 91026
Click to expand...

If your transponder is Mode S 1090 ES capable (e.g. NGT-9000, GTX345) code E is applicable, e.g. EB2 for ADS-B in and out. The code CU1 would be used for Mode A/C capacity with UAT out only (maybe an AT50 transponder and a tail beacon ADS-B unit). If you are mode S with 1090 ES out only (Stratus ESG), then EB1, etc. etc.
 
luvflyin said:
It’s got WASS/GPS, VOR/LOC and a Mode C transponder. It does have ADSB but I don’t know what kind so put that on the back burner for now. I filed:
FAA equipment /G
ICAO equipment A, B, S
ICAO surveillance. C

How’d I do? To much? To little? What about ICAO PBN, am I supposed to put something there?
Click to expand...

There is no way that A is appropriate, it is used for the ability to fly a GLS approach, only two airports in the US have this and no GA aircraft are equipped. You missed a big one, specify G for GPS.

Most likely, based on what you claimed in the post above:

ICAO Equipment: S, B, G, R
ICAO Surveillance: C
ICAO PBN: B2, C2, D2

If your ADS-B Out is based on a new transponder (GTX335/GTX345/GTX330ES or competitor, then you will add B1 or B2 to your C in ICAO Surveillance. Both codes are needed, example C, B1)

If you are a ForeFlight customer, I would be happy to set your equipment profile up, send me a private message. That goes for anyone else.
 
asicer said:
I seem to recall that D2 makes O2 redundant. I'm not sure whether the OP can fly baro-VNAV for S2. But that said, see what @RussR wrote above.
Click to expand...

O2 is not redundant, but it is very rarely needed in the US. The only procedures that require specifying O2 are RNAV SIDs or STARs that include an RF leg. I only know of one such procedure, KATL ZEAN45 but there are probably a few more now. I don't recommend specifying O2 unless your aircraft is RF leg approved and there is a particular procedure you need to fly. The ZELAN4 is turbojet only so I don't use O2 even though my GTN 750 installation includes RF leg capability.
 
RussR said:
Mark, I do like your simplified breakdown and explanations.

However, what practical effect or benefit do you see for filing "B" (for LPV)?

(You could ask me the same question in reverse, of course, "What harm is there to adding "B"? But then I could respond "then why not just file A1 B2 C2 D2"?)

I do think there is a very significant disconnect between ICAO flight plans and ATC. As far as I know from my discussions with controllers, They don't even really ever see the ICAO codes. Many of them don't even know what you're talking about, and just refer to "/G" like before. The ICAO codes seem more for the ATC computers and automated flight plan routing than anything else.
Click to expand...

Yep. I’ve been saying it the past couple of years. ATC flight planning computers (FDIO) still use the old equipment suffixes and not ICAO codes. The .65 still shows equipment suffixes and not ICAO codes as well.

My brother retired from ATC earlier this year and had no clue about the ICAO codes on flight plans. 99 % of controllers are the same.
 
You should also consider adding two ADS-B Out codes as they can have a positive effect on filing. In field 18:

CODE/ this is the 6 character hex code assigned to the aircraft N number. It can be found in the FAA aircraft registry entry for the N number. It begins with an A for US registry. If you have a mode S transponder or any form of ADS-B Out, it makes the ATC system link up the flight plan with your target rather than only relying on the squawk code.

SUR/ this has two values that are relevant and indicate that the ADS-B Out you specified in ICAO Surveillance is of the 2020 compliant version. Fore 1090ES there are three versions, 260, 260A, and 260B. Only 260B is 2020 compliant. For UAT, there is 282A and 282B but only 282B is 2020 compliant. So SUR/260B is for 1090ES and SUR/282B is for UAT and for both specify SUR/260B 282B. Anytime there is a radar outage along your route of flight or the route requires ADS-B Out to have it assigned, there is an advantage to setting this.
 
EdFred said:
I dunno if it's correct or not, but I have SBG and LB2 and it hasn't been rejected.
430W + NGT9000
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All ATC cares about is if you have or don't have altitude being reported by your transponder.

C, or S, or L all work the same as far as ATC is concerned. In the EC, it matters. Also in most installations, L is a capability but not necessarily correct for many GA installations. If you have an FMS or a GPS fed by air-data and AHRS and an autopilot that supports altitude preselect, it is likely you may actually be L, otherwise more likely it is E. But in this hemisphere, no one cares.
 
John Collins said:
You should also consider adding two ADS-B Out codes as they can have a positive effect on filing. In field 18:

CODE/ this is the 6 character hex code assigned to the aircraft N number. It can be found in the FAA aircraft registry entry for the N number. It begins with an A for US registry. If you have a mode S transponder or any form of ADS-B Out, it makes the ATC system link up the flight plan with your target rather than only relying on the squawk code.

SUR/ this has two values that are relevant and indicate that the ADS-B Out you specified in ICAO Surveillance is of the 2020 compliant version. Fore 1090ES there are three versions, 260, 260A, and 260B. Only 260B is 2020 compliant. For UAT, there is 282A and 282B but only 282B is 2020 compliant. So SUR/260B is for 1090ES and SUR/282B is for UAT and for both specify SUR/260B 282B. Anytime there is a radar outage along your route of flight or the route requires ADS-B Out to have it assigned, there is an advantage to setting this.
Click to expand...

I file using Foreflight. In Aircraft setup there are FAA Equipment, ICAO Equipment, ICAO Surveillance and ICAO Wake Category to enter data. ICAO PBN is there also but it just says 'none' and doesn't allow any entry. The plane has a Mode S Code. It is eight digits, I see no 6 charachter code, and I see no where to enter that. So I'll do G for FAA Equipment. For ICAO Equipment I figure A, S. ICAO Surveillance I dunno. I am going to figure it's 1090 so will do either B1 or B2. After that I'm not sure. It has Mode A and C so I figure put C in there? All kinds of Mode S stuff, H, I, L, P and X. How would I find out what my plane has?
 
luvflyin said:
I file using Foreflight. In Aircraft setup there are FAA Equipment, ICAO Equipment, ICAO Surveillance and ICAO Wake Category to enter data. ICAO PBN is there also but it just says 'none' and doesn't allow any entry. The plane has a Mode S Code. It is eight digits, I see no 6 charachter code, and I see no where to enter that. So I'll do G for FAA Equipment. For ICAO Equipment I figure A, S. ICAO Surveillance I dunno. I am going to figure it's 1090 so will do either B1 or B2. After that I'm not sure. It has Mode A and C so I figure put C in there? All kinds of Mode S stuff, H, I, L, P and X. How would I find out what my plane has?
Click to expand...

If you are filing using the ICAO form, the FAA equipment code does not matter.

If you list the make and model of your ADS-B Out system and your transponder, I can tell you the code to use. C is fine for any transponder that replies with an altitude. If you contact me directly, or send an email to team@foreflight.com, I can look up most of your information and make the changes for you. I work for ForeFlight as a consultant on filing issues. Put my name in the email so it will come to me if you want me to handle the case.

Here is a screenshot of my Bonanza entry in the FAA registry. I highlighted the Code value for my aircraft: A97415

FAA Mode S Code.jpg
 
John Collins said:
Anytime there is a radar outage along your route of flight or the route requires ADS-B Out to have it assigned, there is an advantage to setting this.
Click to expand...
John, are there examples of routes which require ADS-B out where it would be a disadvantage not to include the codes?
 
Some of the new RNAV routes on the east coast and routes over the Gulf of Mexico. There may be others. There are also occasional radar outages forcing non equipped aircraft to be assigned airways rather than point to point routes.
 
John Collins said:
If you are filing using the ICAO form, the FAA equipment code does not matter.

If you list the make and model of your ADS-B Out system and your transponder, I can tell you the code to use. C is fine for any transponder that replies with an altitude. If you contact me directly, or send an email to team@foreflight.com, I can look up most of your information and make the changes for you. I work for ForeFlight as a consultant on filing issues. Put my name in the email so it will come to me if you want me to handle the case.

Here is a screenshot of my Bonanza entry in the FAA registry. I highlighted the Code value for my aircraft: A97415

View attachment 91106
Click to expand...

Thank you. I’ll do that in a day or two when I get out the airport to verify info.
 
Hurricane Michael wiped out some ATC radars in 2018 and ADSB-out played an important role in filling the gaps.
 
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