40deg flaps

[Witmo]

There are many more stories where not using the carb heat led to disastrous results. You should know long before you are in a tight spot whether you would need to go around. ...

There's any number of situations that can't be foreseen that would require you to go around with little to no notice. Just today I warned a light twin to check his gear on short final (gear up and locked) and he immediately went around. Could have been a car crossing the runway, or an aircraft that had been holding short suddenly taking the runway not realizing there was someone landing.

 

[Grum.Man]

There's any number of situations that can't be foreseen that would require you to go around with little to no notice. Just today I warned a light twin to check his gear on short final (gear up and locked) and he immediately went around. Could have been a car crossing the runway, or an aircraft that had been holding short suddenly taking the runway not realizing there was someone landing.

I wouldn’t call any of those tight spots where maximum climb rate would be needed. Either way it’s a mute point. Trading one bad habit for another isn’t the solution

 

[flyingron]

Slips with flaps

It’s not a myth, but it’s not a big deal, either.

It's a myth when it comes to the Cessna 150 that we were talking about.

 

[IK04]

I know I am late to this thread but I like to configure the airplane for a go-around on final. That way if I have to abort all that I do is push in the throttle. So once up you line on final, shut off carb heat, then set flaps for best short field takeoff, and open the cowl flaps. You don't have cowl flaps on the 150 but you do have carb heat, so close that first. On my old Cherokee I'd use full flaps down to about 200 AGL then drop back to 2/3, the short field climb setting. The plane would sink about 50 feet and settle into a slightly shallower glide. The Cherokee climbs steeper and turns tighter on 2/3 flaps than any other setting. I also found it easier to control the pitch as the airplane slows and lands, especially when lightly loaded with more weight forward, like a solo flight with 1/3 fuel aboard. If the wind is up I top off the tanks to make the bird as heavy as possible so the wind gusts are less noticable. Hope this helps.

Have fun! Fly SAFE! petehdgs N1935Y

No. That's like going to bed with your clothes on so you can skip a few steps in the morning.

Cherokees don't need carb heat per the manual, as discussed, so skip that step, but leave the flaps alone...

 

[Brad W]

No. That's like going to bed with your clothes on so you can skip a few steps in the morning.

that analogy works for me....
another that comes to mind...
flying recently in an F model C172 with the toggle switch for flaps where you have to hold it up the entire time the flaps are in transit.... might as well retract the flaps on short final while I have time to hold that switch for the eternity it takes for them to retract.
....I don't like flying T&G's with that type of flap control

I say that jokingly of course.
In the spirit of William's practice of carb heat off on short final....if it works for you.....
I see where some might consider that a viable option. If done on very short final it's not like the carb is likley to ice up in those few seconds. I like to keep an open mind, realizing that many of our "best practice" rules of thumb that we are taught and practice come from generalizations, assumptions, erring on the "safe side", easier to remember, average guy, better in some aircraft so might as well do it as habit, etc..... and are not necessarily all absolute....
kinda like the recent post on the fly8MA's vid on the impossible turn.

 

[MacFlier]

Depends on the airframe it's installed in, too. A Lycoming O-360-A4M in a Cherokee is rather ice-resistant, but in a C-172 like mine, it'll ice up without much provocation.

When flying the club Cherokee I sometimes do not use carb heat on approach if the dew point is really low. I don't know why that is as the Cherokee and the club's 172s have the same O360 engine.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Nope. Works the same. I have a little 150 time, too. Carb heat robs power. If your go-around doesn't require a high rate of climb it may not matter.

I never, ever said to leave it on for the climbout. I said that the engine will respond better in the cold if the carb heat is still on when you open the throttle. You close the throttle immediately after that. Carb heat will indeed rob far too much power from an already underpowered airplane. In hot weather it can increase the risk of detonation at full power, too.

 

[Dan Thomas]

There you have it. I'll defer to guys who are experts in tight spots.

I instructed in 150s on warm days with DAs up to 5000' or worse. We had to abort plenty of practice forced approaches on and out of farm fields. At gross. With no wind.

 

[William Pete Hodges]

Wow! I really didn't mean to spark up a big battle. I owned a 68' PA-28-140. When I took delivery the Carb heat cable was frozen and wouldn't even move! I had been taking lessons in a 172 and Carb Heat was used on slow flight and the approach, on every flight. In the Cherokee Carb heat was not recommended unless carb ice had formed. I was surprised by this. So to keep the cable working and to verify no ice on approach I applied carb heat below 2000 RPM just like in the C172, but I closed it on final. The Hershey-bar wing of the Cherokee glides like a brick compared to a 172, so I ended up shortening my pattern right much, so when I lined up on final I was already reasonably short. On final, throttle mostly closed, carb nice and hot from the heat on Downwind and Base, close carb heat and land. In 14 years, including my check ride and 6 BFRs, my procedure was considered acceptable. Flaps? Full, 2/3, 1/3 or none. You are supposed to be able to land with them in any configuration right? Especially in high wind?

Sorry to those who are offended. Have FUN! Fly SAFE! Petehdgs

 

[dtuuri]

Gee, I thought everybody reconciled carb heat procedures in Cherokees the same way: Apply on downwind before reducing RPM, in order to verify the throttle plate is ice free, then turn it off and reduce power for landing. Maybe just us Buckeyes?

 

[Jdm]

I’ve had my 172M for 20 years now. Love the flaps 40. Full slips work great also. Full slipping 30 degree turns are very effective with flaps at 40. Excellent for emergency descent training. I’ve never felt the pitch moment deal, and I’ve tried many times.
I suppose a disadvantage could be failure. Electric flaps can always fail in any position. I’ve had 2 failures while clean. Think about a go around with flaps stuck at 40. Normally not a big deal but if you’re heavy, hot day, high density airport, terrain, etc. Might want to use 20 instead. Instrument flight to an alternate with flaps stuck at 40 would suck more gas than expected.

 

[Pilawt]

I’ve had my 172M for 20 years now. Love the flaps 40. Full slips work great also. Full slipping 30 degree turns are very effective with flaps at 40. Excellent for emergency descent training. I’ve never felt the pitch moment deal, and I’ve tried many times.

I sometimes feel a very slight "pitch pumping" in my 172N in a hard slip with 40° flap. But I probably only feel it because I'm looking for it; otherwise it would likely go unnoticed. My CubCrafters Sport Cub had a noticeable fore-aft wobble in the stick in a full-flap slip, much more pronounced than in the 172. My hangar is at the far end of an 8500-foot-long runway, so I often ask for a short approach and long landing, and when lightly loaded this airplane just won't go down fast enough without full flap and slipping.

Instrument flight to an alternate with flaps stuck at 40 would suck more gas than expected.

In a 172 or 182 I don't think I'd ever want more than 20° down while still in IMC, and preferably no more than 10°.

 

[Dan Thomas]

Several complaints here about stuck electric flaps. In Cessnas this is usually due to incorrect lubrication of the flap jackscrew. Grease where oil is specified. Squirting LPS on it where wiping on a tiny amount is specified. The grease or oil ends up in the limit microswitches, fouling their contacts and freezing the flaps.
Mechanics need to obtain and read the manuals for the airplanes they maintain.

 

[Brad W]

knock on wood, the only flap failure issue I recall in a cessna was the straw that broke the back and started my 16 year break from flying
circuit breaker popping on the flaps in a rented C177RG (N34480). I'd squawked the issue on a flight the weekend prior. Was told it was fixed. It popped again. Ticked me off as I felt I was paying more than it was worth per hour and they weren't maintaining it (on top of all the other issues involved in renting) so I said this doesn't make sense until I can buy my own. Was supposed to be a very temporary break.... not 16 years!

 

[frfly172]

Had an older 172 with 40 flaps and flap gap seals . Landed more like a helicopter.

 

[FlySince9]

Besides they look supper cool when you swoop in chasing your shadow to a landing.

I've always loved that little whistle when a Cessna is at a High angle of attack... Its like, "Hey you, Check your Airspeed!"