3rd class private pilot with SI wanting to fly as sport pilot

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Hello, i received my pilots license 2 years ago and at my AME medical appointment i reported my sleep apnea which i had just been diagnosed with. i continued to fly on my 3rd class medical for 1 year and then december 28 2024 i receive a certified letter from the faa requesting more information along with my yearly cpap report (which i had already turned in to the AME at my original appt). So i sent them all the required information and waited 6 months for them to get back with me. they sent me a SI for OSA and stated i need to go to the AME every year and bring my obstructive sleep apnea report from the dr. and also supply them with my blood pressure readings as i take a BP medication to keep it in range. So my question is, can i let my 3rd class medical expire (which it actually did on december 31, 2025) and fly under mosaic 2.0 as a sport pilot? as best as i can make sense of what i read, as long as my special issuance hasnt been revoked and my most recent 3rd class medical wasnt denied or suspended, i can fly as a sport pilot. So the part i am not 100% sure on, is my initial 3rd class medical that they suspended for 6 months what they are talking about or is it the current one that the FAA sent with my SI that i am to go off of determining the rules they set? it says on the new 3rd class medical that the FAA issued that it supercedes all other medicals but with that said, i havnt even been to an AME since they sent me all this (my appointment for my 3rd class is this friday). so do i need to go get another 3rd class medical this time and i can let it expire next year, or am i good to just let it expire and fly as a sport pilot with just my drivers license and not have to deal with anything medical anymore?
thanks for any help with this!
 
You don't even need to do sport pilot. You can fly under basic med now. But you can also fly on sport pilot. There is one subtle difference.
As long as you've not applied for a renewal, you can do either. If you apply for one, then sport pilot is off the table until it is reissued.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I am still looking for something from the FAA which says that. Can you point me to it?
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§61.23(c)(2)(ii): "A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of paragraph (c) while exercising sport pilot privileges must—Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)"
 
Dana said:
§61.23(c)(2)(ii): "A person using a U.S. driver's license to meet the requirements of paragraph (c) while exercising sport pilot privileges must—Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)"
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I'm pretty familiar with the regulatory language and I don't think it says that a deferral prohibits sport operation. Unless, that is, you read "time of application" as a one-time event that takes place at the AME's office and not as a process that ends with an ultimate denial or approval. And if you do read it that way, what's the basis for saying that you can go sport pilot after approval since a later approval is not what you say is "at the time." IOW, the reg says

”Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)”​

not​

Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of the initial visit to an Aviation Medical Examiner in connection with his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate); this limitation shall be removed if the application is ultimately approved,​

When I ask for "something from the FAA," I'm asking for guidance beyond the limited wording of the regulation, which I simply don't read with all the extra word that you do.
 
bbchien said:
General counsel opinion, tilton 2007
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I think Tilton supports my interpretation. It specifically deals with the situation in which

the eligibility of a person to exercise sport pilot privileges after being denied an application for an airman medical certificate by an aviation medical examiner when that person does not ask for reconsideration of the application.​

It's dealing with a denial, not a deferral, a deemed "withdrawal" treated as a denial, and a failure of the applicant to follow-up with reconsideration. IOW, the process of application has terminated with no issuance of a medical. I think Tilton's result is the same regardless of medical certification level. For example, if I walk into the AME's office with an unexpired 3rd Class Medical and walk out with a denial, can I still exercise my third class privileges? If they wanted to deal with "deferral," it would have been simple to do so; the word appears nowhere.

Not saying my interpretation is right; just that there is nothing from the FAA saying I'm wrong.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
I'm pretty familiar with the regulatory language and I don't think it says that a deferral prohibits sport operation. Unless, that is, you read "time of application" as a one-time event that takes place at the AME's office and not as a process that ends with an ultimate denial or approval. And if you do read it that way, what's the basis for saying that you can go sport pilot after approval since a later approval is not what you say is "at the time." IOW, the reg says

”Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate)”​

not​

Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of the initial visit to an Aviation Medical Examiner in connection with his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate); this limitation shall be removed if the application is ultimately approved,​

When I ask for "something from the FAA," I'm asking for guidance beyond the limited wording of the regulation, which I simply don't read with all the extra word that you do.
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"At the time" can be as broad as you want. But if you've applied and haven't yet been found eligible, then I'd interpret this as making you not eligible. And in support of this interpretation, I'd point to the use of different language wrt Basic Med.
 
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Lindberg said:
"At the time" can be as broad as you want. But if you've applied and haven't yet been found eligible, then I'd interpret this as making you not eligible. And I'm support of this interpretation, I'd point to the use of different language wrt Basic Med.
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Ok, follow that through. If you can't fly sport because it wasn't "at the time," how can you fly sport after a later approval? It still wasn't approved "at the time," as you define it.
 
...but McPherson did add (bottom of page 2):
1767723725287.png
...telling us what they WANT/Wished the reg to say.....
 
midlifeflyer said:
Ok, follow that through. If you can't fly sport because it wasn't "at the time," how can you fly sport after a later approval? It still wasn't approved "at the time," as you define it.
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I didn't define "at the time." In fact, I said you can define it as broadly as you want. But if you haven't been found eligible for issuance, you haven't been found eligible for issuance. It's a positive requirement, unlike the negative limitation for Basic Med: "cannot have been completed and denied."

Under your interpretation, what's the difference between the Basic Med and Sport Pilot language?
 
Lindberg said:
I didn't define "at the time." In fact, I said you can define it as broadly as you want. But if you haven't been found eligible for issuance, you haven't been found eligible for issuance. It's a positive requirement, unlike the negative limitation for Basic Med: "cannot have been completed and denied."

Under your interpretation, what's the difference between the Basic Med and Sport Pilot language?
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The language is different. That's not unusual when they are written at different times, especially when one was written by Congress and the other by the FAA. I'm just taking the words as they are without adding or deleting anything and come to a different conclusion that you do.
 
Once the AME punches in the code on your MedExpress form, the application is live, and if you don't walk out of his office with a medical, you have not "been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application"... at least, not until you successfully receive an SI.

midlifeflyer said:
Ok, follow that through. If you can't fly sport because it wasn't "at the time," how can you fly sport after a later approval? It still wasn't approved "at the time," as you define it.
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The "time of application" starts when the AME punches in the code, and ends when the medical is issued or ultimately denied.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The language is different. That's not unusual when they are written at different times, especially when one was written by Congress and the other by the FAA. I'm just taking the words as they are without adding or deleting anything and come to a different conclusion that you do.
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These phrases are in the same regulation. Under the canons of statutory construction, they're presumed to have distinct meanings.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Not necessarily. First rule of construction: ordinary meaning of the words.
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Then "at the time of his or her most recent application," must mean, "at the time of his or her most recent application."

Your whole argument depends on their being an ambiguity. But if you're now saying there's no ambiguity, then your interpretation is clearly wrong.
 
bbchien said:
...but McPherson did add (bottom of page 2):
View attachment 148783
...telling us what they WANT/Wished the reg to say.....
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There's a whole world of difference between "considers it inappropriate" and a firm prohibition.

Dana said:
The "time of application" starts when the AME punches in the code, and ends when the medical is issued or ultimately denied.
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This describes a duration, not an instant. When the reg says "at the time of application" rather than "during the time of application" it leaves open just when that instant occurs.

That duration is a gray area, and while the FAA may have a preference, there does not seem to be a definitive legal position. Notice what Bruce quoted from the letter above. The FAA did not say that an individual is prohibited from exercising privileges until a determination of eligibility is made.
 
So the AME office just got back to me and he said i would need to do basic medical and check with my insurance. i mentioned to the assistant that i thought maybe he misunderstood my question but she assured me that she asked about flying as a sport pilot. do i have to do basic medical to fly as a sport pilot now that i have a special issuance for OSA. i have been flying for the last 6 months under the 3rd class medical with a SI from the faa. they actually issued me a new 3rd class when they sent my SI paper work so i am not sure if the AME is right or if i am missing something.
 
js2c said:
they actually issued me a new 3rd class when they sent my SI paper work
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OK..... when was your last 3rd class issued? When did the timer start? If your 3rd class won't expire before your SI does, you'll need to do the SI or your 3rd class will be revoked/cancelled. In which case you can't do Sport or PPL with Basic Med.

IF your latest 3rd class has expired without it being revoked/cancelled, then get Basic Med and never contact the AME again.

IF your latest 3rd class is still active and your SI expires before your 3rd class does, keep doing your SI dance, don't renew the 3rd class, let it expire when the time comes, THEN go to Basic Med and never contact the AME again.
 
WDD said:
OK..... when was your last 3rd class issued? When did the timer start? If your 3rd class won't expire before your SI does, you'll need to do the SI or your 3rd class will be revoked/cancelled. In which case you can't do Sport or PPL with Basic Med.
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??? Got a reference for that?
 
You can’t have Basic Med if your 3rd class is revoked/denied.

You can’t do Sport if your 3rd class is revoked/denied.
 
WDD said:
You can’t have Basic Med if your 3rd class is revoked/denied.

You can’t do Sport if your 3rd class is revoked/denied.
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That's not the question. The question is if you applied for a medical and it was deferred rather than issued, what does that mean:

1. If you still have time on your medical, nothing.
2. If you are trying to use basic med, nothing.
3. If you are trying to use the driver's license without a medical provision for sport pilot, you are prohibited.
 
WDD said:
OK..... when was your last 3rd class issued? When did the timer start? If your 3rd class won't expire before your SI does, you'll need to do the SI or your 3rd class will be revoked/cancelled. In which case you can't do Sport or PPL with Basic Med.

IF your latest 3rd class has expired without it being revoked/cancelled, then get Basic Med and never contact the AME again.

IF your latest 3rd class is still active and your SI expires before your 3rd class does, keep doing your SI dance, don't renew the 3rd class, let it expire when the time comes, THEN go to Basic Med and never contact the AME again.
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so my 3rd class was issued 12-12-23 and was suspended a year later for 6 months until the faa sent me a SI letter and reinstated the medical which just expired
12-31-25. my SI is good until 2029. I would like to just fly as a sport pilot under Mosaic 2.0 with my drivers license and never have to mess with medical again. i am having a hard time understanding the regulation where it says your most recent medical cant be suspended or revoked. it was at one time suspended 6 months ago but then they gave it back to me so my recent current standing before it expired in december, was that i was able to fly. Now with that said, can i just start flying as a sport pilot with my drivers license, obviously following the sport pilot rules?
 
I don’t understand how an expired SI automatically revokes a medical. Still looking for a reference.
 
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Lindberg said:
Then "at the time of his or her most recent application," must mean, "at the time of his or her most recent application."

Your whole argument depends on their being an ambiguity. But if you're now saying there's no ambiguity, then your interpretation is clearly wrong.
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My argument is that the language is subject to both readings. I read it more permissively than you and see inconsistency in the more restrictive one. I may be right. I may be wrong,

All I asked for was an FAA reference clarifying which way the FAA views It. So far, nada. Tilton deals with denial, not deferral. McPherson statement about “appropriateness” is a practical reality - even if we’re talking third class, operating after deferral contains a compliance risk.

You are welcome to your belief that your interpretation is the only one. I just don’t share your belief and am looking for specific FAA guidance.
 
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I found all this on the FAA website. I believe since i was ultimately certified and able to fly for the last 6 months that i am now eligible to fly as a sport pilot since my 3rd class medical just expired in good standing and my SI has not been withdrawn by the FAA. Please let me know if you guys agree with this assessment or if i am missing something.

If I will only be exercising sport pilot privileges, do I need to renew an FAA medical certificate I now possess when it expires?

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
You may use your current and valid U.S. driver's license to exercise sport pilot privileges; however, you must hold the required, valid FAA airman medical certificate if you wish to exercise private pilot (or higher) privileges.

Is a Special Issuance considered denial of an application for an airman medical certificate?

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
No. Special Issuance is not considered the denial of an FAA airman medical certificate.

Must I continue to renew my medical certificate if I am subsequently issued a certificate after my last certificate was denied, suspended, or revoked, or may I use my current and valid U.S. driver's license as evidence of medical qualification?

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
If you are ultimately certified then you are no longer on record with the FAA as having had your most recent application denied or your most recently held FAA airman medical certificate suspended or revoked, etc. Therefore, it is not necessary to maintain airman medical certification thereafter to exercise sport pilot privileges provided you hold a current and valid U.S. driver's license and provided you otherwise qualify.

Why can't an airman with a current and valid driver's license medically self-certify to exercise sport pilot privileges if their most recent Special Issuance was withdrawn or last FAA medical certificate was denied, suspended, or revoked?

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
To clarify that, if your most recent records on file with the FAA indicate that you were found ineligible to exercise airman privileges for medical reasons then, in the interest of public safety, you shouldn't go out right away and use your driver's license as medical qualification.

We understand that these conditions may not have been expected and may disappoint some people. That was not our intent, nor is it our intent that affected persons would have to maintain an airman medical certificate if they would rather use their current and valid U.S. driver's license to medically qualify as a sport pilot.

We ultimately concluded that, in those cases where the FAA has existing knowledge of medical ineligibility, we need the affected person to address it and, hopefully have it resolved. To meet the intent of the rule, the affected person should apply for reconsideration of their eligibility. In some denial cases, applicants simply may not have provided enough information to the FAA or may not have supplied information that the FAA may have requested. In certain other denial cases, applicants may not have exercised their appeal rights, which could have led to certification in some cases.

The FAA wants to see as many pilots as possible take advantage of this exciting new rule and looks forward to working with individuals seeking to exercise sport pilot privileges. We also intend to work with EAA, AOPA, and other industry groups toward that end.

the link to the information
https://www.faa.gov/faq?combine=&field_faq_category_target_id=11576
 
Your 3rd class expired. You have not requested/initiated an application for a renewal.

Go get your Basic Med. Go fly as a PPL. Enjoy flying.
 
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midlifeflyer said:
My argument is that the language is subject to both readings.
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I'm just confused now. If the language is subject to multiple interpretations, then you rely on the doctrines to determine which is correct.
midlifeflyer said:
I read it more permissively than you and see inconsistency in the more restrictive one. I may be right. I may be wrong,
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A court would rely on the doctrines of statutory interpretation to determine which of us is right and which of us is wrong. But above, you rejected application of any doctrine other than the ordinary meaning of words, which you now agree are susceptible to multiple interpretations.
midlifeflyer said:
You are welcome to your belief that your interpretation is the only one. I just don’t share your belief and am looking for specific FAA guidance.
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My interpretation is clearly not the only one. I just believe it's the one a court is most likely to adopt, and I've said why. That's what makes horse races.
 
Js2c said:
I found all this on the FAA website. I believe since i was ultimately certified and able to fly for the last 6 months that i am now eligible to fly as a sport pilot since my 3rd class medical just expired in good standing and my SI has not been withdrawn by the FAA. Please let me know if you guys agree with this assessment or if i am missing something.
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The problem is the old devil in the details, so in case of any doubt review one-on-one with someone competent to give good advice.

The way this works generally is, you have an FAA medical certificate and an SI, you need to comply with the SI so long as the medical certificate has not expired. Two opposite examples to illustrate:

1. You are 30 years old and have a third class medical issued in January 2024 (so it expires at the end of January, 2029) and an SI which requires annual reporting. It is now February 2025 and you failed to report. You can expect the failure to report will result in the withdrawal of the SI and revocation of the unexpired medical certificate. That means no sport privileges and no BasicMed. (@Greg Bockelman, is this what you were asking about?)​
​
2. You are 30 years old and have a third class medical issued in January 2024. You have an SI which requires annual reporting and the medical certificate itself says, "not valid for any class of medical after January, 2025." (I think this - the medical certificate expiration and the SI having coinciding dates - is the more common situation). You don't report and don't reapply for a new medical. Since the medical expired, there is no longer anything to report. You are good for either sport privileges or BasicMed. There have been a number of people recommending that CAMI be notified of the intent not to renew the medical to avoid problems.​
 
midlifeflyer said:
The problem is the old devil in the details, so in case of any doubt review one-on-one with someone competent to give good advice.

The way this works generally is, you have an FAA medical certificate and an SI, you need to comply with the SI so long as the medical certificate has not expired. Two opposite examples to illustrate:

1. You are 30 years old and have a third class medical issued in January 2024 (so it expires at the end of January, 2029) and an SI which requires annual reporting. It is now February 2025 and you failed to report. You can expect the failure to report will result in the withdrawal of the SI and revocation of the unexpired medical certificate. That means no sport privileges and no BasicMed. (@Greg Bockelman, is this what you were asking about?)​
​
2. You are 30 years old and have a third class medical issued in January 2024. You have an SI which requires annual reporting and the medical certificate itself says, "not valid for any class of medical after January, 2025." (I think this - the medical certificate expiration and the SI having coinciding dates - is the more common situation). You don't report and don't reapply for a new medical. Since the medical expired, there is no longer anything to report. You are good for either sport privileges or BasicMed. There have been a number of people recommending that CAMI be notified of the intent not to renew the medical to avoid problems.​
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So my situation is, i am 49 years old and my 3rd class medical was issued in 2023, then 1 year later i received a letter from the faa saying they could not determine my medical eligability at this time and need more information on my OSA and cpap usage, as apperantly i should have turned in more when I went to the AME (received my pilot license 3 years ago, so i am still new to alot of this). i sent the information to the FAA and 6 months later received a new medical certificate that expired dec. 31, 2025 (same date as the original issued in 2023) and then a special issuance that expires in 2029 stating to have a medical done every year and im sure it states not eligible for any class after 2029 as you mentioned (I dont have papers available to view at this moment). since mosaic came out, i am more than happy to fly as a sport pilot and not have to mess with basic med if i am eligable, however, when i contacted the AME, he said i would need to do basic medical to fly as a sport pilot. (this is all relayed information to him from office assistant and back to me) I am not sure if he is right. i contacted the faa that took my medical information and issued the SI and the lady said that dont deal with sport pilots and gave me another faa sport pilot line, i left a message and hopefully can get a clear answer on what is authorized now. above you mentioned contacting CAMI. My current situation is my medical just expired and my SI is good until 2029, do i need to let them know i wont be using the SI and either doing basic med if required for me to fly as a sport pilot or just using my drivers license. i started preparing my medexpress incase i needed to stay private pilot but it seems everyone recommends basic med. i will look into that but as mentioned, i can fly and do everything i want to do as a sport pilot and if i dont have to do any medical that would be awesome. once again thank you for all the help.
 
midlifeflyer said:
1. You are 30 years old and have a third class medical issued in January 2024 (so it expires at the end of January, 2029) and an SI which requires annual reporting. It is now February 2025 and you failed to report. You can expect the failure to report will result in the withdrawal of the SI and revocation of the unexpired medical certificate. That means no sport privileges and no BasicMed. (@Greg Bockelman, is this what you were asking about?)
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Actually, such certificate is labelled "not valid for any class after 01/31/2025". If nothing is submitted to the agency and no application is made, the certificate has expired and no agency action will be taken. As such no withdrawal, it is an expiration. Sport and Basic are still okay.

The RUB is if your doc's office happens to have a helpful Hanna in back who sends something in.....FAA will then reply with a demand letter that if you don't fulfill, then you will get a denial for lack of providing the required information. That's not supposed to happen but IT STILL DOES.
 
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bbchien said:
Actually, such certificate is labelled not valid for any class after 01/31/2025. If nothing is submitted to the agency and no application is made, the certificate has expired and no agency action will be taken. As such no withdrawal, it is an expiration. Sport and Basic are still okay.
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Thank you Bruce. All the SI-based medical certificates I've seen seen have been in the "not valid after" category. I was just thinking of an alternative possibility. Glad to be wrong about that since I can see it resulting in a huge amount of confusion - even more than Helpful Hanna can cause.
 
bbchien said:
General counsel opinion, tilton 2007
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This is the document (which I couldn't find) that points out how one can lose privileges for non-action, without an explicit denial. It doesn't directly address the deferred issue, but since not answering any requests for more information, etc. will result in the withdrawal, there's no winning here.
 
Js2c said:
when i contacted the AME, he said i would need to do basic medical to fly as a sport pilot.
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That is NOT correct. Basicmed is only required to exercise PP privileges, or to fly at night.
 
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