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Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by Justin M, May 12, 2018.
I liked this video on this pilot's events during his Fisk Arrival into Oshkosh.
Looks like great weather in the Fiske arrival. Haven’t watched the video yet.
I had to go around once in my Cherokee. Abeam the numbers on try number two the tower tells me to land immediately, can't recall the dot. Phooey on the whole stabilized approach thing, this was stick and rudder all the way. I doubt I could repeat it in my Mooney...
...though it would be fun to try.
Nice job on the video.
Watched the whole thing. Realized after it was over that my heart was beating faster. That was intense!
Cool to watch to see how things may not turn out as planned, no matter how often you go through the arrival in your head.
I have no desire whatsoever to go to Oshkosh, but it was fun to watch the video and listen to the controller, he actually seemed to be having fun..!!!
Yup, looks like a busy arrival time at OSH! Great fun.
Read the NOTAM, understand it, and listen closely, with eyeballs peeled checking everywhere for the one pilot who didn’t read and understand the NOTAM, and you’ll do fine...
Three mistakes in that video, pilot mentions one in the comments. He was messing with his ADS-B trying to silence it and he flipped back for a minute there to the Fisk Arrival frequency during the go around. He realized what had happened and flipped it back. Not a good time or place to have the frequency wrong.
Second, he missed the call to land immediately and got a little fixated on the purple dot. The controllers can and often do change plans quickly, so don’t assume a landing clearance for a particular dot is the last you’ll hear from them. Controller wanted him to plant it so the faster warbird could land over him, flying to the purple dot made that closer than the controller wanted.
Third, he didn’t exit immediately to the grass. It feels weird but that’s what you do, they want you off the runway as soon as you’re slow enough to turn off. Exceptions to this are aircraft that must have a hard surface (just let them know) and depending on runway, the mass arrivals usually high speed taxi all the way to the end of the runways they are arriving on. But for most folks, it’s “get off the runway” ASAP.
All in all, he didn’t make any more mistakes than a lot of folks do, and some make some absolutely wild ones.
Besides Jack crashing his jet and the F-16 run off, in the ranks of normal aircraft, the worst I’ve watched personally was a taildragger who so desperately wanted to hit his dot (not realizing the dots are for spacing and landing a little BEYOND his dot was fine...) he forced the airplane on to the ground in a tail up landing and then nailed the brakes... guess who had a prop strike?
Don’t do anything you can’t handle, is the other overriding rule. You heard the guy behind him go around... controller was surprised but didn’t really scold him harshly. He didn’t like it and went around. Always an option.
If you’ve ever wondered if the radio transmitters in a control tower are rated for 100% transmit duty cycle, OSH does it for hours some days. Especially if weather kept everyone away the first couple days of the show, the arrivals go absolutely insane.
What you also don’t hear in that recording is the same pace and number of aircraft are landing on 9/27 straight ahead of him on the go-around as crossing traffic.
It’s a blast to sit beside 9/27 with a receiver and listen to the madness and watch the landings in real time. We call it “sitting on the beach” ... bring a comfy carryable chair, something to drink, a good camera, and the aforementioned radio (please if you use an aviation handheld make darn sure it doesn’t get keyed and if it has a PTT lockout, use it!) and enjoy the show.
You can do it on the north south runway complex also, but you’re a little closer and slightly uphill from 9/27 than over there, so it’s a tad better vantage point, to me anyway.
ONE PILOT that didn't read the NOTAM??? Seems a bit conservative
Yeah, you gotta be listening with your hand on knob until you're off the runway. Last time I went, on downwind for 27, they had me bank hard to base about 60 deg (I mean 60deg bank angle) just as I was abeam the numbers, and then angle back toward a dot further down the runway. Had to dump all the flaps in and point the nose at the ground, which is always good fun in a Cessna. Basically, the angled base leg was my final approach, then lined up with the runway as I began to flare. Then, as I was in the flare, tower said to shove in some power and carry down to the next dot. We had all the flaps hanging out and a bunch of power in just mushing along, barely above stall and 10 feet AGL to get down there and stuck it on the dot. Felt like the dang Valdez Stol competition. Fun!!! Had to know how to handle the ol' 182 that day, and it felt good. It also felt pretty good when the tower praised my work. They know they can count on a land-o-matic 182 driver!
I saw the F-16 runoff too. We were about to depart at that time. We sat on the taxiway for a long time, baking in an old Apache, waiting for them to open 18. I think we ended up with an intersection departure on the taxiway, AKA 18L.
I've flown twice to OSH. both times it was madness. Single file, follow the tracks, same alt and speed. How hard is that? I may grab a go pro and video this years arrival just to see what I missed.
But for some reason it was departures that scared me the most. Too many people leaving however they want in any direction at any speed. Even with the NOTAM.
But to add, hearing the words "rock your wings" and landing alive at OSH are one of those remember for life experiences for me.
My “there I was” story occurred between Fisk and downwind for 27 a couple of years ago. I was following a high wing both maintaining 90 KTS when about halfway from Fisk this guy suddenly hits the brakes. I slowed and did some shallow s-turns to try and stay behind him a reasonable distance but I was concerned I was slowing too much and I was still gaining on him when my stall horn chirped. I poured on the coals, left the conga line, and circled back to Ripon where I rejoined and flew to an uneventful landing on 36.
I’ve done it a dozen times, but I always get a kick out of hearing the controllers say “welcome to Oshkosh!”
Your loss, but whatever.
That is one talented and patient controller. Not every controller is up to the task of handling traffic at OSH.
I prefer going to places that very few people have been to or even seen, and then land there.
Crowds suffocate me.... or in other words, I enjoy my own company...
I like that too. I bet many of us do. I'm a low key country boy. I'm not a huge fan of crowds either, but for some reason, knowing that every single person on the property is there purely for the love of aviation, it doesn't feel like a typical crowd of random people with random interests. Sounds corny I'm sure, but when everybody is there for the same reason, each stranger I encounter doesn't seem as much like stranger as they might in the real world. A few hundred thousand people in Vegas, NY, LA, D.C.? Noooooo thanks. I'm out on that. A few hundred thousand fellow aviation nuts on an airport with every kind of flying machine imaginable? Yes please! Love me some Oshkosh!!!
Not picking on ya Zeldman.
Flying in to Sun n Fun was a blast. Was happy to have a second set of eyes in the plane. To fly in to Oshkosh for the first, they will be a necessity.
Was cleared to land on 9L after some RVs, on short final was changed to "9R, the wide runway" and instructed to fly a mile at 10-15' agl then land beyond the crossing runway. It was great! I can only imagine that Osh would be so much better.
The worst I've had happen is that some moron in a 182 decides to fly the transition at 70 rather than 90. I give up and turn away just before Fisk. As I'm doing that I realize there's nobody behind me and just do a 360. Fisk guys say "Yeah, that will work." I still caught up with the guy before we got to 36.
Best way was to arrive while the field was 900 OVC. Very surreal busting out of the cloud deck over the show.
This, @Zeldman. I don’t like crowds either, but on all the weekdays (on weekends the locals come) at OSH, you can be standing there looking at an airplane and you know the “complete stranger” standing next to you looking at it will happily strike up a conversation about it and WON’T say the typical genpop airplane things. They’ll say something like, “It needs 50 more horsepower!”
Totally different than being in a clueless crowd. You’d like it.
Last year was my 2nd ifr arrival. I had overnighted about 30mi west (dark, rain all around so gave up on Osh-in-a-day) and getting to the motel found the forecast of ifr in the am, so I started looking for a slot..none when I checked at 8pm, none at 8:30 sort of thing then around 10:15pm someone cancelled their 9:00am and I pounced. Arriving at Osh (VOR27) I had the skies to myself! It was completely strange to not see tons of activity on the ground or hear all that radio traffic. That all changed by noon!
Ouch. Wannabe Cub driver.
He's just jealous he can't fly at 70...
"Land immediately" ought to set off alarm bells with pilots. Trying to force the airplane down to the runway when you're carrying too much power is how PIO landings happen - Pilot Induced Oscillations or porpoise landings.
If you can't do it, landing is optional here, you can go around. Unable is a greatly under used word.
My one and only unintentional cross control stall was when I was trying to follow a Pawnee who obviously hadn't read that part of the NOTAM.
I agree with your sentiment. However having controlled the show at OSH for several years, I will say that most of the time the plane that is told to land immediately is dragging it across the runway to get to the previously assigned spot. In those cases, just pull the power to stop dragging it in and land is what they are looking for. Not shove the nose forward and cause a problem. In this pilot's case, if he chose to go around he'd hopefully told tower right away as the war bard was "leap frogging" him to land past him. The controller would have needed to send the war bird around and tell the cessna to keep it low till one of them has side stepped the runway.
There are a lot of things done at OSH to get that volume of planes in and out and everyone (ATC and pilots) does a tremendous job to make it all happen safely. I've unfortunately seen a few accidents there but none of them were a result of an ATC instruction.
You are probably right, once I found the right area to be in I could probably stand it for an hour or so. And I am pretty sure I would enjoy the challenge of flying in and landing.
But I am not one of those people that has a passion for airplanes. My passion comes from the results of what I do with the airplane. Whether it is air ambulance or off airport landings in Alaska. Knowing someone has a better chance at surviving/recovering or getting folks to that special secluded area way off in the bush is what makes me happy.
I've flown into Osh a half dozen times.....I will always do the fast arrival. PERIOD.
Years ago at my first Oshkosh (which I flew into Fond du Lac), I got to go up in the Tower and also sit out at Fisk for a while with the controllers. Really let me know what the zoo looked like from their side. Never really had a problem since (other than the afore mentioned slow poke on the arrival).
Amusingly the AOPA open house used to be an unmitigated disaster. They tried to run it like Oshkosh (albeit with a temporary tower) but nobody, but nobody, read the NOTAM. You were supposed to call in on a landmark 4 miles out, but people were calling from 20 miles away and stepping all over everybody. Nobody flew anything approaching a sane pattern. Finally, I saw there was nobody ahead of me abeam the numbers and someone was on my tail so I hauled it around close and turned immediately into the grass (ALL THE GRASS AT FDK is taxiable). The tower was about to send the guy behind me around but when he saw what I did he said "yeah, that works."
Not the situation I was thinking of. At low power, you are right, just pulling the throttle will make you stop flying.