Rcmutz
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What Garmin box is that?
$199 ADSB In from ForeFlight
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What Garmin box is that?
X3 Skier
En-Route
I use the Dual GPS with my non Cell iPad so why won't this that work with the Scout?
Cheers
TigerGene
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n9144p
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N9144P
Are you forgetting long cross countries in IFR? Looking out the window in solid IMC doesn't help you see the thunderstorm line developing 100 miles ahead. This device does. I use my own built stratux now, but before that XM Radio with delayed radar was the best safety improvement in the last 30 years.
denverpilot
Tied Down
They may have "buffooned" more than the GPS chipset, if that tiny circuit printed board antenna sucks.
TigerGene
Pre-takeoff checklist
All of these devices have only one primary use and that is the delivery of weather. GPS position provided by Stratus and Stratux is the next most useful function for those without any other GPS data.
All other functions are secondary and vary as to their usefulness. Traffic avoidance, AHRS, pressure altitude and flight logging are ancillary to delivering weather and are only marginally useful. Even the radar data provided by ADS-B is of marginal usefulness and generally not reliable due to the delays in it's delivery.
One must realize the benefits and limitations of all the equipment used in the performance of a particular flight.
The Scout is a terrific device for those that already have GPS available to their Ipad. It is smaller than any other device, lighter than any other device, draws 1/10th the power, and is a cinch to mount. It's not for everone but it will find a place in a large number of aircraft whose owners just can't swallow spending $900 for similar devices with additional features of questionable REAL value.
The Stratux is a great system that was a stepping stone on the path to the Scout and for some will still prove more useful. There is a place for all three systems, but I think that the Stratus 2S folks will need to really step up their game to remain relevant in this market. Stratux and Scout have pointed the way to the future, and the future is not devices that cost $900.
All other functions are secondary and vary as to their usefulness. Traffic avoidance, AHRS, pressure altitude and flight logging are ancillary to delivering weather and are only marginally useful. Even the radar data provided by ADS-B is of marginal usefulness and generally not reliable due to the delays in it's delivery.
One must realize the benefits and limitations of all the equipment used in the performance of a particular flight.
The Scout is a terrific device for those that already have GPS available to their Ipad. It is smaller than any other device, lighter than any other device, draws 1/10th the power, and is a cinch to mount. It's not for everone but it will find a place in a large number of aircraft whose owners just can't swallow spending $900 for similar devices with additional features of questionable REAL value.
The Stratux is a great system that was a stepping stone on the path to the Scout and for some will still prove more useful. There is a place for all three systems, but I think that the Stratus 2S folks will need to really step up their game to remain relevant in this market. Stratux and Scout have pointed the way to the future, and the future is not devices that cost $900.
arnoha
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Not sure how much it matters, but the external GPS tend to have a 10 Hz update rate, whereas the iPad one is 1Hz. So, even if equally reliable, the externals will tend to give you better numbers. Another advantage specifically to the Garmin GLO is that it runs both GPS and GLONASS. So, more signal source. That said, if the internal works well enough for you, it's probably not worth $100 for a GLO.
(Disclosure: I have a Stratus 2 and a Garmin GLO. My current iPad Mini has internal GPS, but my previous iPad did not.)
denverpilot
Tied Down
Assumes that the software reading it is bothering to use all of the updates it received. (I seriously doubt any of the EFB apps are maintaining a real-time screen update rate of 10 Hz, judging by how slow the entire map usually moves and response times when you tap on anything on the touch screen. I doubt they're even using that many updates behind the scenes either... since they're just polling the Location Services API usually... and it's doing the muxing...)
arnoha
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No, it's not for screen update that it matters. The biggest advantage is in getting better position diffs, resulting in better speed numbers and SV accuracy, although without AHRS, SV is pretty minimal anyway.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Well, as interesting as this product is, it annoys me no end, since a mere 3 weeks earlier, I spent $$$ to install the 335. Even with the install cost of the GPS antenna and wiring, still substantially less than my credit card bill. On the other hand, I replaced a 40+ yr old transponder with no indication of expected life.
This, of course, my polite response, suitable only for online and not violating POA TOS.
The dog is currently hiding under the couch in the other room.
TigerGene
Pre-takeoff checklist
It's easy to see why many of us are waiting for simpler and cheaper options to comply with ADS-B. I think we have another 18 to 24 months before we will really know how cheap compliance can get.
denverpilot
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Just looking at how they're implementing that thing, I think you're probably still better off with the 335.
That thing has to be installed in between the original transponder and antenna to get the squawk code and needs not only a GPS antenna installed (like the 335) but also a UAT 978 MHz antenna installed.
So labor will be higher on it and if the 40 year old transponder fails, that thing dies with it since it has nothing to get the current squawk code from...
But for those who have much newer than 40 year old transponders, or one of the non-uogradeable Garmin ones... another nice option from Garmin if you trust that AutoSquawk feature and adding something inline to a relatively high power RF circuit.
I don't think I'm convinced dumping 250W of RF into that thing and hoping it comes out the other side at proper power levels is the "best" idea RF engineering wise, but it can be done. Here's hoping that installed correctly they've done some RF magic to keep that antenna system looking like it's the right impedance to the old transponder... and they can... but... it's kinda... "eww".
I think I prefer two connectors and one chunk of coax between the transponder and antenna rather than four connectors and two chunks of coax... depends a lot on how they implemented the RF passthrough and "receiver" in the new box -- hopefully it's truly 50 ohm and completely passive. Things get a little weird at 1 GHz and up.
Cykoguy
Pre-takeoff checklist
Put me in the "meh" crowd with Scout. Granted I have only flown with my Stratux once it worked great in the Pacer I was in just sitting in the back seat. I will keep an eye on the RF interference in the future though.
JimNtexas
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Jim - In Texas!
I verified with a friend who works at Foreflight that the 'Scout' firmware can be user upgraded using the FF app.
denverpilot
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Here you go @murphey ... hahaha... this one is quite creative...
Don't yell at the dog too much.
https://www.uavionix.com/news/uavio...e-first-near-zero-install-ads-b-out-solution/
Don't yell at the dog too much.
https://www.uavionix.com/news/uavio...e-first-near-zero-install-ads-b-out-solution/
murphey
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oooooohhh - ADSB and matching blinky lights, one side is IN the other side is OUT. If connected to the boom-box lights, does this mean when the lights alternate, so do the IN-OUT signals?Here you go @murphey ... hahaha... this one is quite creative...
Don't yell at the dog too much.
https://www.uavionix.com/news/uavio...e-first-near-zero-install-ads-b-out-solution/
grump grump grump grump grump
Actually, I really don't mind getting the Garmin 335, already had it in the budget. What I was not expecting was the dog needing surgery for bladder stones. That really killed my budget.
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arnoha
Cleared for Takeoff
Here you go @murphey ... hahaha... this one is quite creative...
Don't yell at the dog too much.
https://www.uavionix.com/news/uavio...e-first-near-zero-install-ads-b-out-solution/
Wait, what? That's brilliant! My first reaction was to scoff, but it makes complete sense. It's one of the few places on a plane where both a top view and a bottom view are readily available. There's already power. It's kinda genius.
You do realize it's the same guys making the Scout, right? Also interesting: https://www.uavionix.com/products/pingefb/ They make a Stratux!
Too bad it's all experimental-only for the installed stuff.
weirdjim
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weirdjim
Thank heavens or I'd be out of a job. That's just where my real understandings start to make sense.
Jim
denverpilot
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Technically on most aircraft it's all *switched* power out there and not on all the time, so it would need new wiring run.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Do not EVER buy new avionics a month before Oshkosh. That's where all the new gear comes out. Well, Garmin has gotten in the habit of letting the cat out of the bag a bit early so as to get a jump on all the announcements that normally happen the first day of the show, but still.
Of course, your 335 still works just fine, and probably will for a long time, and is probably a lot nicer to use than the 40+ year old transponder you still would be using if you had gotten the new cheapo box. We're still planning to do a 345 this fall.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Pretty sure Murph bought it some time ago. Shop used was booked out into September last I checked. Probably October by now. Same place we just got a quote. Have had two other local dealers say they can't beat them.
I'm also wondering what could possibly be "nicer to use" about any transponder -- it's a UI of four numbers on the front and an ident button? LOL.
Ooooh. It has a "VFR" button. Roflmao. Check out that awesome update in user experience in 40 years! Heheheh.
flyingcheesehead
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VFR button, number buttons, and most of all, it turns itself on so Departure doesn't have to remind me when I forget!
Of course, they have other features like automatic and manual timers and such too. But ya gotta read the manual at least once to know it's there.But yes, the buttons make a big difference. Poke, poke, poke, poke is way faster than twist twist twist twist.
denverpilot
Tied Down
VFR button, number buttons, and most of all, it turns itself on so Departure doesn't have to remind me when I forget!
But yes, the buttons make a big difference. Poke, poke, poke, poke is way faster than twist twist twist twist.
Bah. LOL. The old stuff isn't that hard. And per the AIM you're supposed to have it on as soon as you taxi anyway. The "auto on" thing is 90s news and even obsolete.
flyingcheesehead
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Bah. LOL. The old stuff isn't that hard. And per the AIM you're supposed to have it on as soon as you taxi anyway. The "auto on" thing is 90s news and even obsolete.
... Says the guy who doesn't have one. I got mine reconfigured when the rules changed a few years ago to go straight to ALT when the avionics master is powered on. Garmin stuff isn't so inflexible as to not be able to change with the times at all.
denverpilot
Tied Down
You used it as a "feature". I would have no way to know you had it flashed. LOL
I'm still just laughing about it being somehow better. Saying I don't have one really doesn't work with me when turning a couple of numbers isn't that hard. Haha.
It's all good. I'm sure they're lovely transponders. We're probably going 345 so it will actually DO something different for all of that money. Haha. Being a transponder is meh. Required and boring. But grabbing the ADS-B IN without messing with portable receivers, from a real antenna outside the faraday cage? That actually adds something.
No big rush though. Still watching the landscape but Garmin's recent announcements are pretty nifty. If it weren't for the 2020 mandate of a dumb and I'll conceived one way data system, I'd spend the money on a G5 over the 345 in a heartbeat.
Dumping a spinning gyro adds a hell of a lot more "safety" than FAA's boondoggle.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I said you didn't have one 'cuz you clearly made an assumption about how it worked (turning on in flight and not on the ground) that indicated you didn't know it could do anything different.
FWIW, I didn't "have it flashed". I think it was just a change in the setup menus the avionics shops can get access to. Garmin does sell all over the world, and there are different rules in different places, so they probably had the logic to accommodate all of them. For example, did you know that you can change the code that gets squawked when the "VFR" button is pushed, because not all countries use 1200 for VFR?
Yep, that's what we're gonna do too. I did think about the GDL 82 for a minute, but while the vast majority of our flight time is spent below FL180 over the CONUS, I have gone international a few times and up to FL190 once and wouldn't want to place any new limitations on the plane because we didn't spring for 1090. We also want In.
James331
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I'm not in the market, but is build a AHRS/GPS/dual band that worked with everything vs buying that USB stick from foreflight, man they atleast could have put a AHRS into it or made it dual band, kinda surprised foreflight didn't bring a little more to the table with this.
What "rule" my 330 is still set to not go to ALT till it hits a target airspeed.
BTW it's a menu thing, you can change lots of stuff, from the voice being a girl or a guy, to the flight timer being cumulative or resetting, just turn the transponder off, hold down FUNC as you turn it back on.
Now that navworx is back in, for about the same price you get their version which has ADSB IN, wifi and stealth mode when squawking 1200.
http://www.navworx.com/ADS600BDescription.php
What "rule" my 330 is still set to not go to ALT till it hits a target airspeed.
BTW it's a menu thing, you can change lots of stuff, from the voice being a girl or a guy, to the flight timer being cumulative or resetting, just turn the transponder off, hold down FUNC as you turn it back on.
Now that navworx is back in, for about the same price you get their version which has ADSB IN, wifi and stealth mode when squawking 1200.
http://www.navworx.com/ADS600BDescription.php
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Ryan F.
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Ryan Ferguson 1974
It is dual-band.
As for AHRS, remember you're comparing a home-grown, roll-your own implementation of an AHRS which is basically still in development, vs. something which is being sold on the open market. A reliable AHRS takes development and commitment from the mfgr, and carries with it considerable liability. Not something which can be 'sold' as a feature without careful implementation.
Navworx has a checkered reputation at this point, and is one of a growing number of "mom and pops" attempting to ride the ADS-B wave. Savvy buyers will place a premium on the Garmin product even if it sold for a bit more than Navworx. The issue isn't featureset, it's compliance and reliability from a reputable mfgr. I for one would much rather buy a used airplane with the Garmin product installed as opposed to Navworx. You're going with a known commodity rather than a company which published a letter on the front page of their website claiming that the FAA sabotaged their business.
James331
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It is dual-band.
As for AHRS, remember you're comparing a home-grown, roll-your own implementation of an AHRS which is basically still in development, vs. something which is being sold on the open market. A reliable AHRS takes development and commitment from the mfgr, and carries with it considerable liability. Not something which can be 'sold' as a feature without careful implementation.
Navworx has a checkered reputation at this point, and is one of a growing number of "mom and pops" attempting to ride the ADS-B wave. Savvy buyers will place a premium on the Garmin product even if it sold for a bit more than Navworx. The issue isn't featureset, it's compliance and reliability from a reputable mfgr. I for one would much rather buy a used airplane with the Garmin product installed as opposed to Navworx. You're going with a known commodity rather than a company which published a letter on the front page of their website claiming that the FAA sabotaged their business.
Frankly I was less than impressed with how the FAA handled things, I think they found slight problem, came in like god almighty but didn't get a matching reception from navworx, then decided to show them who was boss.
Still their product offers much more than garmins, plus the saftey aspect of not transmitting your N number when set to 1200, that alone knocks garmin out of the running for me and I even have a full garmin stack, all I'd have to do is ES my 330 and run a wire. I will be waiting till 2020, but I will only buy a unit that protects my saftey a little better and not sending sensitive date when not legally required falls under that relim.
TigerGene
Pre-takeoff checklist
The Garmin GDL 82 does have "Stealth Mode" when squawking 1200. It is an optional feature enabled during the set up.
I'll bet they will have added ADS-B in as an option by the time it is available. Perhaps in a slightly more expensive version.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/540911
I'll bet they will have added ADS-B in as an option by the time it is available. Perhaps in a slightly more expensive version.
https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/540911
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Nah, I just went with your description... have flown with them set both ways, some owners are too clueless or too lazy to get them set to the AIM-requested mode.
They actually didn't have the "always on" at first. The original units had to have a factory firmware update. Never buy version 1 of any software...
Not to mention that UAT is SUCH a total hack job, engineering-wise. Haha. Mode-S was the correct solution but nobody did the math to see if it would work in high traffic areas.
I don't know but I get the feeling FF didn't design the little thing. Someone else did and approached them to see if they wanted to do an exclusive deal, I bet.
It'll be interesting when someone gets one and does a little reverse engineering if it's really just running ported open-source code on new hardware, and if they are, if anyone will call them on the legalities of the GPL software license...
X3 Skier
En-Route
denverpilot
Tied Down
Ahhh right. I did see that.
Reverse engineering their stuff and seeing if they're violating the GPL could be fun... but not $199 worth of fun.
flyingcheesehead
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I think it was changed in the AIM (4-1-20a3) circa 2013, but I found this SAFO from 2015: https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/avi...afety/safo/all_safos/media/2015/SAFO15006.pdf
It states, in part:
Garmin can do anonymous mode on their 978/UAT equipment. Anonymous is not a capability of 1090ES, so any equipment with 1090ES cannot go into stealth mode.
James331
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flyingcheesehead
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Sure. But why on earth would you do anything else? It's there to help YOU.
I've never understood this insistence some pilots have with not doing anything unless it's a FAR. Do you think the FAA recommends you do things for fun? To **** you off?
Or maybe, just maybe, they recommend things to keep you safer and make the system work better?
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
How exactly does telling people to leave their transponders on on the ground "increase the size of the FAA bureaucracy" or improve anyone's job security?
TigerGene
Pre-takeoff checklist
It's all the rules, all the regulation, all the silliness. ADS-B out is a fine example. What an incredibly expensive and complex boondoggle that is. Why is it needed? What is the benefit? Why one set of rules for LSA/experimental and another for the rest of us? We all fly in the same airspace. Why not portable ADS-B out? It's legal in the UK.
Ads-B is just the latest example of an ever increasing Federal Government choking the lifeblood and money out of an entire industry,
Ads-B is just the latest example of an ever increasing Federal Government choking the lifeblood and money out of an entire industry,