1959 Piper Comanche 250 - good buy?

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FlyingSchmidt
So I need some input here. I know there are many details missing, and that paint scheme is killing me, but look beyond that and give me a good honest evaluation from what you see.

I am not nearly smart enough to know what to look for, but this plane fits my mission quite well, and is under budget.

http://www.aviatorshotline.com/aircraft/piston-single/piper-comanche-250-3
 
So I need some input here. I know there are many details missing, and that paint scheme is killing me, but look beyond that and give me a good honest evaluation from what you see.

I am not nearly smart enough to know what to look for, but this plane fits my mission quite well, and is under budget.

http://www.aviatorshotline.com/aircraft/piston-single/piper-comanche-250-3

There are lots of $40K Comanches out there. I wouldn't start with one that has a runout engine and a paint scheme I didn't like.

I saw one advertised a week or so ago with less engine time, a ragged paint job, and similar radios for <$30k.

There are 5 categories I look at when trying to evaluate airplanes. Airframe condition, engine condition (and time), interior, paint, and avionics. Unless someone is giving away an airplane, I wouldn't look at one where more than 2 of the categories don't pass muster.
 
Looks like it is high time engine,avionics could use an upgrade. Other equipment has been replaced as needed. I would factor the price of an overhaul ,into the purchase price.
 
So I need some input here. I know there are many details missing, and that paint scheme is killing me, but look beyond that and give me a good honest evaluation from what you see.

I am not nearly smart enough to know what to look for, but this plane fits my mission quite well, and is under budget.

http://www.aviatorshotline.com/aircraft/piston-single/piper-comanche-250-3

Comanches are a great airplane. I am however somewhat biased, though it comes from some experience in various single engine retracts.

This airplane has a couple of positives. The tip tanks are $10K to add, so they add some value as it turns the aircraft into a great long distance traveling machine. It also has an autopilot that would cost at least $15K to add. Most of the older Comanches don't have an autopilot or just have a wing leveler. It also has a pretty good paint job which can run a chunk of change. If it is in decent mechanical condition, it could be a good buy.

The down side is the run out engine, old panel configuration, and lack of a WAAS GPS.

Personally, I like run out engines if the price is right. That way may get a little free time out of them, and then can have them overhauled to my satisfaction, not by Virgil and Slim down at the truck stop.

DO NOT buy the airplane without have a Comanche savvy mechanic take a hard look at it. The landing gear are often in need of some help. You can make a $10K mistake very easily by getting it home and finding out that you need to recondition the landing gear. There is a 1000 hour inspection required on the landing gear. (AD 77-13-21, para A). I have done three Comanche logbook reviews in the last two weeks, and not one of those aircraft had any clear indication that the 1000 hour inspection had been accomplished.

Comanche owners have a tendency to hang on to their planes for a long long time. It is testament to their intrinsic usefulness. However, it also means that as the owner ages, the aircraft ends up sitting for a long time before being sold. They can be expensive to bring back to reliable condition when let go too long.

The International Comanche Society is the type club for the Comanche series and there is an active and dedicated group on the Airworthy Comanche forum on Delphi. http://forums.delphiforums.com/comanches/start The former has a membership charge and the later does not.
 
PA24s are great planes and are ideal for id say the majority of folks who do much more than just touch and goes at their home drome. I actually kinda like the paint job too.

The engine sure does have some hours on it though...
 
This is great info, thank you very much! I'm on a serious hunt now.

Ya Adam, the black a no worky down here
 
The " downside" is a big downside. It's been run to death. It's also black which is a really big detriment when YOU go to sell it. Maybe an undertaker would be interested. Allow 35 grand for an engine replacement for sure. It's a buyers market. Look around.
 
Are there any websites for aircraft consumer reports?
 
Are there any websites for aircraft consumer reports?
Subscribe to Aviation Consumer. They have numerous in-depth aircraft reviews behind their paywall.

Awesome question and answer!!

Shane, if you want to talk plane ownership, do not hesitate to stop by!

Lou, you might be joking, but I'm serious. I'm happy to have a sit down. I enjoyed the hell out of that Cherokee!

The " downside" is a big downside. It's been run to death. It's also black which is a really big detriment when YOU go to sell it. Maybe an undertaker would be interested. Allow 35 grand for an engine replacement for sure. It's a buyers market. Look around.

I agree wholeheartedly. It is going to turn a lot of people away, and I have no intention on keeping an aircraft forever as I have no doubt that my interests will change.

I'll keep looking, and if you guys see anything really worthwhile, give me a heads up would ya?!
 
The " downside" is a big downside. It's been run to death. It's also black which is a really big detriment when YOU go to sell it. Maybe an undertaker would be interested. Allow 35 grand for an engine replacement for sure. It's a buyers market. Look around.

There is no indication in the ad that it has been "run to death". Do you know the plane personally? I try to keep track of the market so am always interested in inside information.
 
New Paint 1999 is seller's code for 16 Year Old Paint Job.

JPI 700 indicates someone who is at least somewhat interested in the health of the engine.

That Gx55 is worthless. Sure, it works. I don't think Garmin supports the database, so it would require you to keep track of what airports have changed identifiers (around here there are quite a few). Not a big deal; the bigger deal is that you are going to spend at least $6-8,000, min, getting ADS-B capability in that plane to be legal flying within any Mode-C veil. The price seeeeeeeeeems to account for that, but I haven't spent much time looking at the 250 market to really know.

In all, not a bad price, but rest assured, your all-in cost is going to be, let's say, $10k more than that.
 
There is no indication in the ad that it has been "run to death". Do you know the plane personally? I try to keep track of the market so am always interested in inside information.

Do YOU know it personally!? common sense rears its head here. Move on. The hours indicate its big trouble.
 
Do YOU know it personally!? common sense rears its head here. Move on. The hours indicate its big trouble.


The engine is runout. That happens and should be reflected in the price (but doesn't appear to be). The airframe is relatively low time for a 55 year old airplane.
 
I've not flown this plane....but, keep in mind, there's no substitute for power.

I'd be betting the 300HP version would be desired....once the newness of this aircraft wears off.:goofy::yes:
 
Hey, what's wrong with that paint job (see my avatar)? You'll never worry too much about oil showing. Not my choice of IFR avionics, but the autopilot is nice and you can use this for a VFR cruiser with your iPad fine if that's the kind of flying you do.

As pointed out the engine while probably running strong is getting up there and you should be making provisions for an overhaul. Looks like one of the old Hartzell Props, I'd not take their word for it about the AD's, some very onerous ones on that prop. Make sure you have compliance (or that it's been replaced with the MV hub which avoids much of the Hartzell revenue generation AD).

Comanche's aren't too bad flying planes. I considered one when I was shopping for the Navion. The Osborne tanks are nice and I have them on my Navion (and a friend had them on his Comanche). Just be sure to run them for a bit on the ground if you've drained them dry before taking off. Dealing with JLOsborne is a pain if you need anything from them however.
 
That Gx55 is worthless. Sure, it works. I don't think Garmin supports the database, so it would require you to keep track of what airports have changed identifiers (around here there are quite a few).

The GX55 is still supported by Jepp, although you buy the database in half-country chunks.

Edit: looks like you can get "Americas South," which includes all US and Central / South America, as well.

http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/legal/charts/ads-overview.jsp?cid=excg5501938
 
Shane, if you want to talk plane ownership, do not hesitate to stop by!

Lou, you might be joking, but I'm serious. I'm happy to have a sit down. I enjoyed the hell out of that Cherokee!

Dude, you missed a great opportunity to call me "Shirley". Hope you get the hint. Because if not, you are not worthy and I am not talking to you anymore. :D

But I was serious. You should know me by now. I do not make plain offers or promises. If you are ever up north, give me a shout and we'll catch a beer and pizza or some medium-rare juicy dead cow and we can talk ownership until you're sick of it. :lol:
 
Do YOU know it personally!? common sense rears its head here. Move on. The hours indicate its big trouble.

Common sense is not all that common. I know Comanches pretty well, and this one is fairly low time. That is an engine that can go over TBO. It is frankly more likely to have been run too little than run to death. Less than 100 hours a year. Maybe that is common sense.
 
Common sense is not all that common. I know Comanches pretty well, and this one is fairly low time. That is an engine that can go over TBO. It is frankly more likely to have been run too little than run to death. Less than 100 hours a year. Maybe that is common sense.

You don't seem to know aircraft engines very well. This particular engine is a barking dog. It's as I said , common sense. However, you may have the last word that you obviously enjoy regardless of your being wrong.
 
Has anyone mentioned that Ed after replacing I think 5 cylinders is still planning to sell his Comanche. It is as well outfitted as most. Just food for thought. He is honest and takes good care of his aircraft!!
 
Has anyone mentioned that Ed after replacing I think 5 cylinders is still planning to sell his Comanche. It is as well outfitted as most. Just food for thought. He is honest and takes good care of his aircraft!!

Oh? sounds interesting.
 
I was surprised he hadn't weighed in on this thread, maybe he plans to keep it after all, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
 
I was surprised he hadn't weighed in on this thread, maybe he plans to keep it after all, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
I had been contemplating a viking but a comanche 250 would do just fine and be easier to find a partner on probably.
 
You don't seem to know aircraft engines very well. This particular engine is a barking dog. It's as I said , common sense. However, you may have the last word that you obviously enjoy regardless of your being wrong.

So, how do you explain engines that often go to 3000+ SMOH with no issues?
 
I was surprised he hadn't weighed in on this thread, maybe he plans to keep it after all, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.

It doesn't have an autopilot, so everyone runs away. I'm not going to drop $15,000 on an autopilot just to sell it for ten bucks more than what I am/was asking for it.
 
I had been contemplating a viking but a comanche 250 would do just fine and be easier to find a partner on probably.

I'd take a PA24 any day over a Viking.

Both nice plane mind you, just the 24 is a better ship IMO.
 
I always thought it was priced accordingly and reasonably and if someone really wanted an AP they could spend the bucks to do so.
 
I always thought it was priced accordingly and reasonably and if someone really wanted an AP they could spend the bucks to do so.

That's what I thought too. But evidently pilot skills suck, and everyone wants the automated ass wiper installed, because they are unable to fly straight and level. If you want to just sit there and do nothing, buy a ticket on Greyhound.
 
That's what I thought too. But evidently pilot skills suck, and everyone wants the automated ass wiper installed, because they are unable to fly straight and level. If you want to just sit there and do nothing, buy a ticket on Greyhound.
I don't need an autopilot ;)
 
I'd take a PA24 any day over a Viking.

Both nice plane mind you, just the 24 is a better ship IMO.

apples and oranges I guess. the vikes are undervalued IMO, probably because wood scares people. the io-520 has it's issues, the one close in here has a 530 in it, the extra HP in the vike vs a comanche 250 would be nice up here in the rockies. The vike is likely to be 15-20 years newer than a comanche of similar price. I have flown a vike, I haven't a comanche but it can't be too different from any of the other pipers I've flown, right? :dunno:
 
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apples and oranges I guess. the vikes are undervalued IMO, probably because wood scares people. the io-520 has it's issues, the one close in here has a 530 in it, the extra HP in the vike vs a comanche 250 would be nice up here in the rockies. The vike is likely to be 15-20 years newer than a comanche of similar price.

I just rode in a Viking for the first time last fall. Well, I take that back. It rode me. I was wedged in. Even worse than a Mooney. Way, way, way, way too tight for me.
 
I just rode in a Viking for the first time last fall. Well, I take that back. It rode me. I was wedged in. Even worse than a Mooney. Way, way, way, way too tight for me.

Yeah, they're a little smaller.
width height
Mooney 201 43.5″ 44.5″
viking 41" 45"

"they say" the mooney feels tighter than it is because of the height.


the vikings ride nice, lots of flex in those wood wings, but you sit right on the wing box really low. Still, for the dollars it's tough to beat a 70's model viking with a low time io-530 for 43k. The early fuel system is a little goofy :dunno:

comanche 250 is a 540, no? that should run a good long time I would think.
 
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I just rode in a Viking for the first time last fall. Well, I take that back. It rode me. I was wedged in. Even worse than a Mooney. Way, way, way, way too tight for me.

Hey Ed, do you have it posted somewhere I could take a look at all the details? I have absolutely no requirement for autopilot and would MUCH rather purchase from someone within the group!

Thanks!
 
Hey Ed, do you have it posted somewhere I could take a look at all the details? I have absolutely no requirement for autopilot and would MUCH rather purchase from someone within the group!

Thanks!

Also, did you see the debonair in the classifieds here? Beautiful plane.
 
I'm all-in on the Comanche ride and think they're great planes.

The plane the OP's looking at seems like an interesting deal for someone who is looking to set one up their way and keep it a long time (and is OK with black airplanes). You'll need an overhaul sometime and some panel work, but it looks OK. I feel the price is a bit high for a project, but it's not stupid like some I've seen.

That said, I think Ed's plane is a real deal. Anyone looking for a 250 should give it serious thought. I like autopilots and would put one in, but I think he has it priced correctly for what it is. It's a good ride.
 
Hey Ed, do you have it posted somewhere I could take a look at all the details? I have absolutely no requirement for autopilot and would MUCH rather purchase from someone within the group!

Thanks!

You're gonna be in Philly this weekend, right?
 
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