172 tow bar

arnoha

arnoha

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arnoha
So, the tow bar in my plane has cracks in the frame. I believe it's a Bogi Bar, which I thought was a good brand. But...cracks suggest it sucks. It needs to be replaced. A new one of those is $136.

The stock Cessna piece is light, but it otherwise also sucks. It's also stupid expensive at $308.

There appear to be a few no-name items out there for under $70.

What do you guys like? What would you buy? Reminder: this is a leaseback aircraft, so it needs to be standard and simple to operate.
 
This is what I have for my 182 and like it. 13 years and no issues.

https://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/cessna-spring-loaded-replacement-aircraft-towbar.html

Also, as I've stated here before: I keep the pull ring detent pin on the plane's keychain. This serves two functions:
1. When I'm using the tow bar, I know the keys aren't in the ignition and the mags are off.
2. When starting the engine, I know the tow bar isn't still on the nosewheel.
 
172?

I've always just pulled them around by the prop, they are light enough.

Only small aircraft I've used tow bars on we're ones which came with them for free, all my stuff, 172 sized to my 185, I just use my hands, not like you're talking a C208B or anything.


For a 172, it's just more of a pain, more junk to haul around, banging around inside the plane, and to forget. Just use the prop
 
James331 said:
172?

I've always just pulled them around by the prop, they are light enough.

Only small aircraft I've used tow bars on we're ones which came with them for free, all my stuff, 172 sized to my 185, I just use my hands, not like you're talking a C208B or anything.


For a 172, it's just more of a pain, more junk to haul around, banging around inside the plane, and to forget. Just use the prop
Click to expand...

I always use a towbar on my 172 going in and out of the hangar. If you just pull the prop how do you steer it if you need to make a tight turn? Just keep kicking that front wheel pant so it stays turned?
 
pigpenracing said:
If you just pull the prop how do you steer it if you need to make a tight turn? Just keep kicking that front wheel pant so it stays turned?
Click to expand...

Back when I lived in Harrison, AR and owned a 172 I caught a lineman doing this to my plane when moving it.

I told him that if I ever caught him doing that to my plane again, or anyone else's for that matter, he'd have a tow bar stuck up his ass.
 
timwinters said:
Back when I lived in Harrison, AR and owned a 172 I caught a lineman doing this to my plane when moving it.

I told him that if I ever caught him doing that to my plane again, or anyone else's for that matter, he'd have a tow bar stuck up his ass.
Click to expand...

Repairing them isn't much fun....




 
pigpenracing said:
I always use a towbar on my 172 going in and out of the hangar. If you just pull the prop how do you steer it if you need to make a tight turn? Just keep kicking that front wheel pant so it stays turned?
Click to expand...

Just pull in the direction you need the plane to go.

Shouldn't need to kick anything, and god knows you're not kicking a wheel pant, come on, that's right up there with PIOing a plane or landing nose wheel first, not something anyone with over 5hrs logged would do.

To each their own, but pushing/pulling your hands works just fine.
Like I said, if a plane came with a tow bar I'd likley use it, but if it broke, unless the second one was free, I wouldn't replace it, and even for free, that's a chunk of steel bouncing around the back and smacking stuff.
 
timwinters said:
This is what I have for my 182 and like it. 13 years and no issues.

https://www.sportys.com/pilotshop/cessna-spring-loaded-replacement-aircraft-towbar.html

Also, as I've stated here before: I keep the pull ring detent pin on the plane's keychain. This serves two functions:
1. When I'm using the tow bar, I know the keys aren't in the ignition and the mags are off.
2. When starting the engine, I know the tow bar isn't still on the nosewheel.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw that one. I think aircraft I've rented have used it, and it works fine. It's been in this list twice. It's cheap (as airplane parts go). Seems durable. I'm probably going with that.

The pin on the keychain trick is one I intend to use with the new club.

James331 said:
172?

I've always just pulled them around by the prop, they are light enough.

Only small aircraft I've used tow bars on we're ones which came with them for free, all my stuff, 172 sized to my 185, I just use my hands, not like you're talking a C208B or anything.

For a 172, it's just more of a pain, more junk to haul around, banging around inside the plane, and to forget. Just use the prop
Click to expand...

Not an option. It's a leaseback aircraft, so I do not trust random renters to figure out how to move the plane without damaging it without the towbar. It's a learned skill and none of the CFIs I've worked with have ever taught it.

As a result, I also suck at moving an aircraft sans towbar. So I need this thing, too. Especially given that the typical distance wingtip to wingtip in the parking is less than a foot, there's not a lot of room for error, nor are the taxiways much wider than even a 172.

The plane's new parking spot:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/W...6ae1520306f94b!8m2!3d37.4543844!4d-122.114948

The plane's current parking spot which is a little roomier:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/T...5480a8a7cda7f!8m2!3d37.3364166!4d-121.8200971
 
Just found this thread:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/cessna-182-towbar-recommendations.44215/

It recommends the Bogi Bar, but I can't. For the price they are charging, I kinda want more. It's a bit heavy. The handle makes for awkward storage. The pin breakdown is inconvenient. It's a bit more expensive than other options, except for Cessna itself. And mine cracked, which is kinda inexcusable. The one advantage to the Bogi is that the handle holds the bar open during attachment instead of being spring loaded, which may make it easier to avoid damaging the nose pant.

I have no nose pant. :) I'm going with the cheaper, slimmer option. It's not lighter and it still has a pin, but I wouldn't expect either of those to be better at that price point.
 
Some guys push down on the 172's horizontal stab to lift the nosewheel so they can swing the airplane around. That cracks the stab's front spar. The center of the spar flexes around its center hole, and cracks radiate out from it. If the cracks reach the spar flanges, you're faced with a big repair bill, not to mention the possibility of failure. Cessna forbids that maneuver. SEB 94-8.

A little studying of the tail's geometry and expected loads will reveal that the aft spar, not the forward, takes most of the flight loads, which is why the front spar is light. And the main wheels are well aft of the inflight CG, making the nose-raising forces much higher on the ground than in flight.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiYtaDBgNbPAhWjwVQKHZ1XBdoQFggcMAA&url=https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/contacts/pubs/ourpdf.pdf?as_id=22210&usg=AFQjCNH0PEw-GObxrHoa3M9998VMBZ2GmA&bvm=bv.135475266,d.cGw&cad=rja
 
James331 said:
Just pull in the direction you need the plane to go.

Shouldn't need to kick anything, and god knows you're not kicking a wheel pant, come on, that's right up there with PIOing a plane or landing nose wheel first, not something anyone with over 5hrs logged would do.

To each their own, but pushing/pulling your hands works just fine.
Like I said, if a plane came with a tow bar I'd likley use it, but if it broke, unless the second one was free, I wouldn't replace it, and even for free, that's a chunk of steel bouncing around the back and smacking stuff.
Click to expand...
Push an AA- back into the hanger using that technique. But I want to watch.
 
arnoha said:
Yeah, I saw that one. I think aircraft I've rented have used it, and it works fine. It's been in this list twice. It's cheap (as airplane parts go). Seems durable. I'm probably going with that.

The pin on the keychain trick is one I intend to use with the new club.



Not an option. It's a leaseback aircraft, so I do not trust random renters to figure out how to move the plane without damaging it without the towbar. It's a learned skill and none of the CFIs I've worked with have ever taught it.

As a result, I also suck at moving an aircraft sans towbar. So I need this thing, too. Especially given that the typical distance wingtip to wingtip in the parking is less than a foot, there's not a lot of room for error, nor are the taxiways much wider than even a 172.

The plane's new parking spot:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/W...6ae1520306f94b!8m2!3d37.4543844!4d-122.114948

The plane's current parking spot which is a little roomier:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/T...5480a8a7cda7f!8m2!3d37.3364166!4d-121.8200971
Click to expand...

We MAY have a spare one from the CAP plane. We just traded it with Concord, and the towbar is too short for a 182. When we get a new one (and we will), the old one will be a waste of space.

It looks nice, not very old, in excellent shape, but it SUCKS because you have to stick your head in the prop arc to use it. Not something any of us likes.

The plane is parked by the Tower.

This sure makes me wonder what the Concord guys used. Something tells me they got an aftermarket one and just didn't let us know about it. Then again, they didn't fly it that much (which is why it rotated to us).

FYI, PAO spaces aren't that tight, even in the WVFC rows. They are far enough apart that people still start the airplanes in their spaces. Go check out Reid, especially in the north corner (where all the flight schools are). Airplanes are cheek to jowl there, and you'll get a towbar shoved up your backside if you don't pull the plane out to start it.
 
Last edited:
Dan Thomas said:
Some guys push down on the 172's horizontal stab to lift the nosewheel so they can swing the airplane around. That cracks the stab's front spar. The center of the spar flexes around its center hole, and cracks radiate out from it. If the cracks reach the spar flanges, you're faced with a big repair bill, not to mention the possibility of failure. Cessna forbids that maneuver. SEB 94-8.

A little studying of the tail's geometry and expected loads will reveal that the aft spar, not the forward, takes most of the flight loads, which is why the front spar is light. And the main wheels are well aft of the inflight CG, making the nose-raising forces much higher on the ground than in flight.
Click to expand...

A guy flew a 337 in a few days ago, and did that to put oil in the rear engine. Idk anything about those, but it made me cringe.
 
Can you not just get the cracks on the tow bar welded? Seems like it would be cheaper/stronger.
 
I really like the Bogie Bar, and mostly use it to steer the aircraft back into the hangar. "Steer" is the operative word...better to push/pull on the prop (at least for FP) and simply steer with the "tow" bar. It'll last a lot longer that way.
 
bluerooster said:
Push an AA- back into the hanger using that technique. But I want to watch.
Click to expand...

Been there done that, those are only good for like a 2-4' reverse unless you have all day lol

The one I flew (AA1) was a outside airplane, so we just pulled it forwards.
 
arnoha said:
Just found this thread:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/cessna-182-towbar-recommendations.44215/

It recommends the Bogi Bar, but I can't. For the price they are charging, I kinda want more. It's a bit heavy. The handle makes for awkward storage. The pin breakdown is inconvenient. It's a bit more expensive than other options, except for Cessna itself. And mine cracked, which is kinda inexcusable. The one advantage to the Bogi is that the handle holds the bar open during attachment instead of being spring loaded, which may make it easier to avoid damaging the nose pant.

I have no nose pant. :) I'm going with the cheaper, slimmer option. It's not lighter and it still has a pin, but I wouldn't expect either of those to be better at that price point.
Click to expand...
I'd call Bogert up and ask them about it. You never know, they might repair it for you or exchange it. I'm a fan of their products and have had great customer service from them. Worth a shot.
http://bogertaviation.

We currently have the Deluxe Cessna towbar from Spruce and it works just fine. I did have to epoxy on the little plastic cap on the handle.
 
Dan Thomas said:
Some guys push down on the 172's horizontal stab to lift the nosewheel so they can swing the airplane around. That cracks the stab's front spar. The center of the spar flexes around its center hole, and cracks radiate out from it. If the cracks reach the spar flanges, you're faced with a big repair bill, not to mention the possibility of failure. Cessna forbids that maneuver. SEB 94-8.

A little studying of the tail's geometry and expected loads will reveal that the aft spar, not the forward, takes most of the flight loads, which is why the front spar is light. And the main wheels are well aft of the inflight CG, making the nose-raising forces much higher on the ground than in flight.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0ahUKEwiYtaDBgNbPAhWjwVQKHZ1XBdoQFggcMAA&url=https://support.cessna.com/custsupt/contacts/pubs/ourpdf.pdf?as_id=22210&usg=AFQjCNH0PEw-GObxrHoa3M9998VMBZ2GmA&bvm=bv.135475266,d.cGw&cad=rja
Click to expand...

is this just on older 172s?
 
exec-vp-long-hands-keys-to-ma-_11365504.jpg
 
ktup-flyer said:
Can you not just get the cracks on the tow bar welded? Seems like it would be cheaper/stronger.
Click to expand...

Possibly, but at $65, it's cheaper for me to just replace it. I'd guess, what, half hour to fix? At the $110/hr shop rate, that's $55. Add in material cost and the time my aircraft can't fly waiting for the repair, and you're past the cost of the new towbar. Having a new one AND a broken one also puts me ahead, value-wise.

Of course, now that I have a working one and a broken one, I may go get the broken Bogi fixed so I won't have downtime should the new one fail. Or if I decide I like the Bogi better after all. The spare gives me the luxury of time to figure out a more subtle answer, and it's not an expensive spare to have.

And, no, I don't know how to weld. It's on that list of skills I should probably have, but just have not had an excuse to spend a couple thousand dollars learning it.
 
timwinters said:
You also get some awesome spar cracks if you're using the horizontal stab.
Click to expand...
I've seen people have kids sit on the stab to change a nosewheel... they probably heard me cringe as I taxied by. Do it by the empennage like you're supposed to, folks.
 
arnoha said:
And, no, I don't know how to weld. It's on that list of skills I should probably have, but just have not had an excuse to spend a couple thousand dollars learning it.
Click to expand...

Last I looked, it was $65 at the Los Gatos Adult School. Stick, MIG and TIG, plus a forge. That was some 10 years ago, but it's how I learned I was the king of stuck rods.
 
Dan Thomas said:
See post #14.
Click to expand...
Post 14 is partially correct but doesn't tell the whole story. Yes, Cessna forbids pushing on the horizontal stab, but they don't forbid lifting it via the tail at all, at least not on mine. It says forward of the horizontal stab.

845202a514ab4a5b95b3abd33f7a62ee.png
 
mkosmo said:
Post 14 is partially correct but doesn't tell the whole story. Yes, Cessna forbids pushing on the horizontal stab, but they don't forbid lifting it via the tail at all, at least not on mine. It says forward of the horizontal stab.

845202a514ab4a5b95b3abd33f7a62ee.png
Click to expand...

This. It can be done safely if you know what you're doing. If I ever see a renter push on the stab, it's the last time they fly my plane. But my method for the tail adjustment is to put the bulkhead (look for the line of rivets) just ahead of the tail into my armpit and use my weight to get the nose up. Nice, gentle spread of my weight and super easy on the plane.
 
MAKG1 said:
Last I looked, it was $65 at the Los Gatos Adult School. Stick, MIG and TIG, plus a forge. That was some 10 years ago, but it's how I learned I was the king of stuck rods.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but if it's actually going to be useful to me, I need to buy a welder, right? They ain't cheap. And I can try to find a corner to stuff it into my already overfull garage. And I'd probably have to rewire for 220?
 
arnoha said:
Yeah, but if it's actually going to be useful to me, I need to buy a welder, right? They ain't cheap. And I can try to find a corner to stuff it into my already overfull garage. And I'd probably have to rewire for 220?
Click to expand...
Have you already bought the welder so far? Or still looking for it? If you are still looking for it then i can actually help you.
 
arnoha said:
Yeah, but if it's actually going to be useful to me, I need to buy a welder, right? They ain't cheap. And I can try to find a corner to stuff it into my already overfull garage. And I'd probably have to rewire for 220?
Click to expand...
Plenty of 120 MIGs out there. Don't often see TIGs in anything but 240, though.
 
arnoha said:
This. It can be done safely if you know what you're doing. If I ever see a renter push on the stab, it's the last time they fly my plane. But my method for the tail adjustment is to put the bulkhead (look for the line of rivets) just ahead of the tail into my armpit and use my weight to get the nose up. Nice, gentle spread of my weight and super easy on the plane.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that.
 
Begather said:
Have you already bought the welder so far? Or still looking for it? If you are still looking for it then i can actually help you.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer, but I'm actually a pretty long way from prioritizing learning to weld. Current life situation is crazy busy, so it's all kinda hypothetical for now.
 
Well, the new tow bar arrived and I exchanged it for the old one. I have to say: I'm disappointed with both.

The new no-name one has a good design that looks like it'll hold up well. Materials seem excellent. It attaches and does the job...perfect for a leaseback aircraft. But... the build quality is not great. The welds are beefy but ugly. The paint is meh. The extension pin holes (all six of them) were unchamfered and had massive burrs. I hit each of them with a deburring tool and a file, which was annoying to me, since it naturally took the paint off the edges of the holes. That was preferable to the sharp, finger-ruining mess that was there, though. The two pieces do telescope, but the tubes are standard tube sizes: they're not actually fit to each other. This means the handle rattles around in the too-big mounting and the pin is more challenging to operate. The ball on the pin is also crazy stiff, but I assume that will break in.

The Bogi-bar is much nicer construction. The handles are padded. It's lighter. The two-tone paint is nice. The tubes slide together smoothly. All three handles are padded. The pin has the perfect effort. Everything is well built. But why the reliance on the flexing tube-steel arms? Looking at the long crack in one of the arms of the fork, it is an inevitable place for it to fail. It's right at the point all three tubes of the fork come together and it's an obvious stress riser at a very high stress point. Talking to my mechanic, this is apparently extremely common with Bogi-bars. Some folks jury-rig a hose clamp at that location to solve the problem, but my crack is too long for that to be a good solution.

The only other options I saw on the market are a cheaper no-name that also relies on flexing tube-steel, but doesn't come with the Bogi's convenient handle to hold it open. No thanks. Or Cessna's option at a wallet melting $308. (I've used it and it is a bit too short to use comfortably. I also know its failure mode is cracking of the too-thin tube walls at the lug attachment points, which is why few restart Cessna have their original tow bar anymore.) Also, no thanks. I think I may talk to Bogert Aviation and see what they have to say about the subject. I'm sure I'm out of warranty, but they seem to hold the most hope of a tweak that would produce a quality tow bar.
 
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