100LL

More than 28,000 posts, it seems like his full time job.
 
chemgeek said:
In chemistry and economics it's called the SWAG method, which is a slight improvement on the WAG method. :)
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The hierarchy of the four engineering estimates from least accurate to the most accurate is: Rectorandom, WAG, SWAG, and EWAG (EDUCATED scientific wild ass guess).

Jim
 
Tom-D said:
These tanks are completely full, the fuel I've drained looks just like 100LL should.
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Full is good. Appearances would not seem to be a significant measure of quality to me.
How does it run on the ground?
I would drain at least one whole tank and put in fresh fuel and start out on that.
 
Mike Smith said:
Tom isnt really asking us our opinion. The quote below gets to the crux of the matter. Tom is itching for a battle of wits with someone. This has nothing to do with actually flying with old gas.
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As always you can't answer the question so you try to pick a fight.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Full is good. Appearances would not seem to be a significant measure of quality to me.
How does it run on the ground?
I would drain at least one whole tank and put in fresh fuel and start out on that.
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No it's all getting drained, and new fuel put in.
I started this thread thinking some one here would have factual information about how old fuel can be and still be safe to use.
But no, The thread creepers want to talk about auto fuel, and the Tommy haters want to blame me for their not being able to answer the question.
I asked a simply question, and expected an answer from anyone of the chemist I know frequent here.
It gets pretty old after a while.
 
Sorry, Tom, but you bring it on yourself with your attitude and demeanor here.

It's the typical Tom thread...except this one is in future tense.

Typically it is:

Tom: boy, I f***ed up.

Others: yeah, Tom, you f***ed up.

Tom: F*** you, I DID NOT!!!

And you're the only person here who almost always hijacks his own threads and takes it off onto an excursion into the weeds. It's like if you can't get someone to argue with you with your original premise then you'll change it hoping to find something that someone will argue with you on.

I agree with you completely that:

Tom-D said:
It gets pretty old after a while.
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I find it highly unlikely that a vented tank of 100LL would remain full for 10 years.
 
Tom-D said:
I was hoping that some one could tell why that is?

Big romping stomping chest beating chemists on this page, would call you out for mis-spelling (Zink), and will argue all day about refinery operations, Yet not a peep out of them when asked about 100LL.

HMMmmmm
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Would you settle for big romping, stomping, chest-beating musicians, pointing out that "zink" is a correct spelling for a 16th-century musical instrument? :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornett
 
timwinters said:
Sorry, Tom, but you bring it on yourself with your attitude and demeanor here.

It's the typical Tom thread...except this one is in future tense.

Typically it is:

Tom: boy, I f***ed up.

Others: yeah, Tom, you f***ed up.

Tom: F*** you, I DID NOT!!!

And you're the only person here who almost always hijacks his own threads and takes it off into an excursion in the weeds. It's like if you can't get someone to argue with you with your original then you'll change it hoping to find something that some one will argue with you on.

I agree with you completely that:
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Trying to rationalize what you do is useless, I could agree with you, you'd still try to blame me.
 
Paulie said:
Water not a solvent? It is the solvent.
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That's one of the FEW things I remember from chemistry class: "Water is the universal solvent."
 
timwinters said:
Sorry, Tom, but you bring it on yourself with your attitude and demeanor here.

It's the typical Tom thread...except this one is in future tense.

Typically it is:

Tom: boy, I f***ed up.

Others: yeah, Tom, you f***ed up.

Tom: F*** you, I DID NOT!!!

And you're the only person here who almost always hijacks his own threads and takes it off onto an excursion into the weeds. It's like if you can't get someone to argue with you with your original premise then you'll change it hoping to find something that someone will argue with you on.

I agree with you completely that:
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Timmy, your just a hater, and now on ignore
Simply can't give an intelligent answer, with out trying to shift blame.
 
timwinters said:
Sorry, Tom, but you bring it on yourself with your attitude and demeanor here.

It's the typical Tom thread...except this one is in future tense.

Typically it is:

Tom: boy, I f***ed up.

Others: yeah, Tom, you f***ed up.

Tom: F*** you, I DID NOT!!!

And you're the only person here who almost always hijacks his own threads and takes it off onto an excursion into the weeds. It's like if you can't get someone to argue with you with your original premise then you'll change it hoping to find something that someone will argue with you on.

I agree with you completely that:
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Have you considered the possibility that you might be overreacting?
 
@Tom-D I’m sorry that you get ridiculed for asking a legit question. I was actually interested to hear what others had to say, and so I gave my 2c. Sorry others couldn’t play without casting blame.
 
Tom-D said:
Simply not reacting anymore. Thread is dead, useless to ask any thing here and expect an answer.
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Especially when you’re actually expecting an argument.

I still call bs on a vented tank of fuel remaining full after 10 years.
 
Salty said:
Especially when you’re actually expecting an argument.

I still call bs on a vented tank of fuel remaining full after 10 years.
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I must be the only one who doesn’t see where Tom is creating an argument at all. He’s just asking a legit question that nobody can answer.
 
Tom-D said:
Simply not reacting anymore. Thread is dead, useless to ask any thing here and expect an answer.
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I was suggesting that Tim might be overreacting, not you.
 
Tom-D said:
I was hoping that some one could tell why that is?
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"But what limits the life of a fuel? One problem is evaporation of light ends in the fuel. ...

But the major concern with aging fuels is gum formation. Over time, heavy ends and additives can start to form gums, which can plug up or, dare I say, “gum-up” a carburetor or fuel system. This can lead to bad fuel distribution or even an engine stall."

"Chemically, what happens to petroleum based fuels like gasoline over time is peroxidation and polymerization. The former will reduce octane (peroxides are apparently more prone to knocking) and the latter will contribute to gum formation. Peroxides may eventually be converted to acidic compounds....
gum and acid formation in the fuel over a long period of time exposed to air. There will also be significant evaporation effects over a 10 year period which concentrates peroxides and any gumming agents"

"Evaporation.
Oxidation."

Exactly how long is too long? How long is too long for an engine to sit before you are going to have problems with internal corrosion?

Same answer. Bob Dole's underwear.
 
Ryanb said:
I must be the only one who doesn’t see where Tom is creating an argument at all. He’s just asking a legit question that nobody can answer.
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Because there is no “correct” answer. This is the Gordian Knot of POA questions.
 
Ryanb said:
I must be the only one who doesn’t see where Tom is creating an argument at all. He’s just asking a legit question that nobody can answer.
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Please look at the first reply, a link was provided with an answer.
 
Ryanb said:
I must be the only one who doesn’t see where Tom is creating an argument at all. He’s just asking a legit question that nobody can answer.
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It was answered in the very first reply with a link to an article written by:

"Ben Visser an aviation fuels and lubricants expert who spent 33 years with Shell Oil. He has been a private pilot since 1985"

What more does he want? Maybe an argument? He chose to ignore that answer and instead follows up with comments like:

Tom-D said:
Big romping stomping chest beating chemists on this page, would call you out for mis-spelling (Zink), and will argue all day about refinery operations, Yet not a peep out of them when asked about 100LL.
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Yep, I'd say the search for an argument was the goal.

I think what many here fail to understand is that Tom is almost never looking for the real answer. No, rather he's looking for the answer that he wants to hear. And if he doesn't get it, he starts insulting and stomping and screaming.

We've all seen it play out...repeatedly.
 
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Tom-D said:
Well,,,, the 182 I'm working on has sat for 10 years (maybe more) don't know when the fuel was put in.
Doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy using the old fuel.
So, I was wondering how old the fuel can be, and still be usable.
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Drain it and use it in your lawn mower, where operation isn't critical.
 
Salty said:
I find it highly unlikely that a vented tank of 100LL would remain full for 10 years.
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I think you are onto something there; I had an airplane in my hangar which did not fly for about 10 years. I know the tanks were almost full when I parked it for the owner.
When I went to get it out of pickling, the tanks were bone dry as if someone had scrubbed them clean and blotted them dry! I know it wasn't leaking in that hangar, I was walking past it regularly. Zero blue dye stains. There is no way someone could have drained or siphoned the fuel. I filled the airplane after all that time, and it did not leak a drop.
 
PS, we all know the answer to this; 100LL comes from DEAD DINOSAURS! A dead dinosaur does not care if it has been dead 10million years or 10million plus 2 years!
That crappy car gas however is made from corn! That stuff is starting to get rancid out of the box!
:D
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I think you are onto something there; I had an airplane in my hangar which did not fly for about 10 years. I know the tanks were almost full when I parked it for the owner.
When I went to get it out of pickling, the tanks were bone dry as if someone had scrubbed them clean and blotted them dry! I know it wasn't leaking in that hangar, I was walking past it regularly. Zero blue dye stains. There is no way someone could have drained or siphoned the fuel. I filled the airplane after all that time, and it did not leak a drop.
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That sounds far more likely to me.
 
Kenny Phillips said:
When we drained ours we used the old gasoline for cleaning stuff. Twenty years ago that was OK, apparently not today.
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I've done that, a long time ago. My Dad did it for years. Bare hands. Leaded mogas. Deadly stuff, that. He was almost 90 when he passed away.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
I think you are onto something there; I had an airplane in my hangar which did not fly for about 10 years. I know the tanks were almost full when I parked it for the owner.
When I went to get it out of pickling, the tanks were bone dry as if someone had scrubbed them clean and blotted them dry! I know it wasn't leaking in that hangar, I was walking past it regularly. Zero blue dye stains. There is no way someone could have drained or siphoned the fuel. I filled the airplane after all that time, and it did not leak a drop.
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Curious ? what happened to the dye? dye doesn't evaporate it would have stayed in the tank, and when new fuel was added it would have contaminated the new fuel with double dose of dye.
 
Dan Thomas said:
I've done that, a long time ago. My Dad did it for years. Bare hands. Leaded mogas. Deadly stuff, that. He was almost 90 when he passed away.
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There is always the exception to the rule. The lead absorbed is still with him.
 
Mike Smith said:
Gosh Tom.....we don’t know. What does happen to that dye?
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I have no idea,,he should have found it in the tank. (just like you'd find it on the floor had the tank leaked)
 
Here is an experiment for ya "Mike". Place a couple quarts of 100LL in a bucket, place that bucket in the sun for a while see what happens.
a couple qts won't hold much dye, but it will still be in the bottom of the bucket when the fuel is gone.
 
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