“LPA - Light Personal Aircraft” proposed by FAA

Discussion in 'Home Builders and Sport Pilots' started by Kent Wien, May 16, 2021.

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  1. Kent Wien

    Kent Wien Pre-takeoff checklist

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  2. asicer

    asicer Final Approach

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    So if an LPA needs a private pilot cert to fly it an an A&P to maintain it, then what's the advantage? Easier certification?
     
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  3. Dana

    Dana En-Route

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    Sounds like another rule that benefits the manufacturers but does absolutely nothing for the pilots.
     
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  4. Daleandee

    Daleandee Final Approach

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    The FAA sounds like Gomer Pyle ... "Surprise, Surprise, Surprise!" :p

     
  5. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    Womp womp. As predicted. Good news is you wont have to wait until 2023 to be disappointed.
     
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  6. DaleB

    DaleB Final Approach

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    Color me shocked.
     
  7. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    Sounds like it won’t require an IA for the annual.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  8. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Exactly what we needed, another type of certification to argue about, and very little expansion of the one that doesn’t require anal probes to exercise.
     
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  9. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Looks like another big let down coming from the initial proposals for light sport.
     
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  10. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    We should be thankful that they don't appear to be "fixing" the current part 103 or Sporty Pilot rules (at least based on this particular author).
     
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  11. DaleB

    DaleB Final Approach

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    That description makes no sense. So what, then would be the point??
    It gives the Sport Pilot nothing, if they can't fly LPA.
    It gives the Private Pilot with a medical certificate nothing, as they can already fly anything that would be LPA.
    It gives the Private Pilot with BasicMed nothing, as they can already fly anything that would be LPA.
    It gives the Private Pilot without a medical or BasicMed nothing, if they can't fly LPA.

    Maybe it would be a different set of certification requirements, like SLSA but with different parameters. It wouldn't do dick for pilots, though. What a shock.
     
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  12. DFH65

    DFH65 En-Route

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    It is probably EXACTLY what is going to happen since it makes no sense, changes nothing and increases complexity.

    Ugh!!
     
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  13. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    This could also be another attempt at a primary non-commercial/owner-maintained category of aircraft. Its my understanding this issue is not dead as it was the timing and foundation of the last attempt that was at fault.
     
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  14. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    The first question I'd ask is whether this was an aircraft certification rule or a medical certification rule and set your expectations accordingly.
     
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  15. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    That's the way I read it. Assuming that is the case I could see a few new airplanes being developed/produced and a few airplanes that are currently being built as SLSAs being upgraded to something that is legally usable.
     
  16. skier

    skier Line Up and Wait

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    There are some cool things in here from a certification standpoint
    • Increased LSA max stall speed to 52kts
    • Electric motors allowed for LSAs
    • Production LSA gyroplanes now covered
    • Single lever control for in-flight adjustable props
    One interesting thing in the proposal is a limitation of LPA to 200hp Max. Since LSA is a subset of LPA, I wonder if this would impact any of the less efficient aircraft categories (gyroplanes, weight shift, powered parachutes). Maybe not.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  17. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    You left out, it doesn't really even help the manufacturers because they already have a Part 23 rewrite underway.
     
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  18. Bell206

    Bell206 Final Approach

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    FYI: the Part 23 rewrite was completed and published back in 2016/17 which didn't seem to spur any OEMs into producing any new aircraft either.
     
  19. skier

    skier Line Up and Wait

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    I'm not sure why folks are so negative on this the two standouts to me are:

    If (1) goes through that's around a 15% change in stall speed. There's also not yet clarification from what I can tell on whether that's clean or dirty. This would make a huge impact on future LSA designs and would likely make them fly better in more turbulent conditions. It also opens the door to planes like the Davis DA2, Viking Dragonfly, Smith Miniplane, the original Pitts (http://www.airbum.com/Pitts/PirepPittsReplica.html), Starduster Too, possibly the Vari Ez, and I'm sure others.

    (2) seems like an oversight in the original LSA regs, but with increased concern on emissions, better batteries, increased focus on electric flight, etc. it will be a nice option for manufacturers and E-AB builders.
     
  20. Cluemeister

    Cluemeister Line Up and Wait PoA Supporter

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    Pilots and manufacturers: We need to increase the LSA weight limit

    FAA: Here you go, gyroplanes and electric motors!
     
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  21. Warmi

    Warmi Line Up and Wait

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    What is so strange is that for 2 years he was reporting all these changes to gross etc as being seriously proposed and considered for LSA planes just to suddenly announce that none of that will happen and in reality they are planning to do something completely different ... I am wondering , was he talking out of his *** and they never even considered these changes in the first place or perhaps they did and FAA is just basically bunch of schizofrenics ...
     
  22. DaleB

    DaleB Final Approach

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    I hate like hell to be a complete pessimist and be proven right, but with the FAA it's so easy to do. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, just once, but I don't know that I'll live that long.
     
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  23. DFH65

    DFH65 En-Route

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    FAA: Roses are red, violets are blue, I'm a schizophrenic and so am I.
     
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  24. DMD3.

    DMD3. Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Will this rule allow certain experimental aircraft (Vans 7, 8, or 14 for example) be purchased factory built instead of the buyer being forced to build or buy used?
     
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  25. Stephen Poole

    Stephen Poole Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The easiest idea would be to have fewer restrictions (maybe even no medical) as long as the plane has a BRS.

    But I guess that's too obvious (edit -- to the FAA, not to the folks here!).
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
  26. Towner

    Towner Filing Flight Plan

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    Both Dan Johnson and EAA put out new statements regarding this yesterday. Now, they are making it seem like a weight increase for LSA is a sure thing. To what weight, no idea. Supposedly it will still be based using a "power index " formula.

    Johnson also says that the Sport Pilot rules will change to allow sport pilots to fly aircraft meeting the new LSA standards. This might include legacy aircraft such as a C152, or even a c172. I'm very skeptical of 4 seat aircraft being allowed, but flying as a sport pilot with a wife and 9 year old, additional seating is my dream.

    Light Personal Aircraft will still be a new category, but will require a ppl to fly and an a&p for repair.

    Hopefully I presented this appropriately, but it's worth reviewing both statements. I'll be skeptical until the changes are final, but it gives me a little hope again.
     
  27. Marshall Alexander

    Marshall Alexander Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I'm hanging on to my 150. As a newly certificated CFI-S, I'd use the 150, and ditch the really light S6S.
     
  28. Towner

    Towner Filing Flight Plan

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    I'd love to hang on to my Mooney, but I don't think there is a chance in heck that it will fit LSA. Flying under sport pilot rules, I can live with another pa28. Maybe even a Grumman Tiger!
     
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  29. Stephen Poole

    Stephen Poole Pre-takeoff checklist

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    A slightly older article at DJ's site has the proposed formula for the Power Index. (Finally.) Subject to final Fellowship of Aviation Antagonizers approval, of curse ...

    https://bydanjohnson.com/faas-proposed-regulation-mosaic-lamas-spring-2020-update-report/

    Scroll to the bottom of the article. There's a typo in the CTSW example, but still valuable info.

    There will probably be a hard cap at 3,000 lbs and 200HP. But it appears that there ARE legacy planes that will be available to Sport Pilots. (The 172 fits, but not the 182.)

    Not gonna happen before 2023, though. Guess my plans to start SP continue to be on hold. No LSAs for rent around here.
     
  30. Daleandee

    Daleandee Final Approach

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    From Dan's latest foretelling: https://bydanjohnson.com/better-new...ulation-clarifications-to-earlier-statements/
     
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  31. Marshall Alexander

    Marshall Alexander Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Why not go ahead and start? Go ahead and fly a 150, chances are it's probably going to meet the rules/requirements. That's what I've been doing with the young lady I've been flying with for a couple of years. She flies the airplane really well. Even though, when we started flying together I wasn't a CFI yet, she got a GREAT deal of left seat experience, and I got a lot of right seat experience (about 65 hours worth).
     
  32. Stephen Poole

    Stephen Poole Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Everyone whom I've called or checked with here in my area has 172s, some Pipers. Kind of surprised me, to be honest -- 150s are supposedly the "standard," as you imply. A couple of places made it clear that they wanted me to have a medical up front. They were totally uninterested in Sport Pilot training.

    I'll keep looking, though. I have a disabled wife with considerable health issues (another reason why I've been delayed, long story), so I can't leave her for an extended period -- such as one of the "one-week" LSA/SP schools. Now that this COVID madness is ending, it'll be easier, too. One of the light sport schools around here shut down for COVID and their Website hasn't been updated in quite a while. :(
     
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