Took a Waymo (driverless car) this week

RussR

RussR

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Russ
I was in Phoenix this week and had a need for an Uber/etc. I had been seeing all these Waymo cars around, and decided to try it out with my daughter. It worked great!

I know there are likely a lot of people out there who don't like the idea of not having control, but I probably take an average of about 10 Ubers a month, and really, the thing drove better than most Uber drivers I've had.

At least in Phoenix, they do not use the freeways (yet), so it did take a little longer to get where we were going. The cost was basically the same as an Uber, but obviously you're not adding a tip, so it ended up being cheaper.

We did not have any construction, bicycles, pedestrians or particularly tricky situations on our route, so I don't know how it would deal with those. We certainly did feel like we were participating in just about every sci-fi movie ever made (finally).

Good experience, I'd definitely do it again. I really hope they succeed and spread to more cities.
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I was in Phoenix a couple months back and we saw them on the highway
 
I see them all the time. Here I am, cautiously crossing the street in front of one. You can't really tell, but there is no driver.

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Zeldman said:
So, if a driverless car runs a stop sign, who gets the ticket.??
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My daughter and I were discussing that kind of stuff. Clearly Waymo must have some kind of negotiated agreement with the various jurisdictions it operates in, that would cover such things. Can the thing even detect a police car trying to pull it over? Would there be any point to pulling it over? I imagine if a Waymo car made any traffic infraction, the police officer would basically just call it in to dispatch and they'd handle it with the company directly.

I think it would be different than using autopilot on a Tesla, for example, where you're sitting in the driver's seat and have the ability (and responsibility) to correct any mistakes it makes. In a Waymo, that's not possible (well, not realistically possible anyway).
 
RussR said:
Can the thing even detect a police car trying to pull it over?
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Can you imagine what the high speed pursuit would be like.??

Or what the shoot out at the end of the pursuit would be like.??

Who would then be responsible for the tip.??
 
Zeldman said:
So, if a driverless car runs a stop sign, who gets the ticket.??
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Waymo knows where stop signs are and, from what I have observed, comes to a full stop at each one, unlike human drivers. They also know the speed limit. I can see how some unusual situations would confuse them, but stop signs, stop lights, and speed limits are predictable. I've seen them around here for 4-5 years; first in the testing phase with safety drivers; then alone; and now carrying paying passengers. I haven't had the occasion to take one, but I have the app and might someday. I am actually more cautious of them as a pedestrian and bicyclist than I think I would be as a passenger.
 
Everskyward said:
Waymo knows where stop signs are
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Even school crossing guards with hand held stop signs, and folks holding a stop sign at road construction sites.??

I am not anti, more curious now. I guessing there is some sort of some reader that ''sees'' everything, and reads and reacts, but I am wondering about the unexpected things like the kid that unexpectedly run out in the street in front of it.
 
Have driverless cars been successfully tested on mountain roads yet?
 
Everskyward said:
Waymo knows where stop signs are and, from what I have observed, comes to a full stop at each one, unlike human drivers. They also know the speed limit.
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Wait… it travels the speed limit? What good is that? The main advantage of a cab is being able to travel 55 in a 30 zone while the driver argues with his cousin on the phone.
 
Half Fast said:
Does the passenger have some sort of emergency stop switch?
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I believe that they do. They also have live tech support which the passenger can call (through the car's systems) or when the car reports that it is stuck. They'll dispatch a rescue crew to get the car un-stuck.

Zeldman said:
Even school crossing guards with hand held stop signs, and folks holding a stop sign at road construction sites.??
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If it can't, they'd geofence the cars away from such areas.

The Waymo system is very different from the Tesla FSD system.

Tesla's FSD using eight exterior cameras as its only sensors and drives based on what it sees without regard to maps. (It does use the navigation to, well, navigate, but not to drive). FSD can drive on any road as long as it can identify it as a road, or parking lot, visually.

Waymo has a lot of sensors including radar and lidar. It can only drive in areas for which it has high definition data which is more detailed than Google maps. It can not (yet) drive on freeways. Take the car outside its geofenced area and it can't self-drive. It is that geo-fenced area that allows them to drive driverless in their service areas.

AlleyCat67 said:
Wait… it travels the speed limit? What good is that? The main advantage of a cab is being able to travel 55 in a 30 zone while the driver argues with his cousin on the phone.
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There's a YouTube video where they race a Waymo and a Tesla in FSD. I think it was done int he San Francisco area. The Tesla won, in large part because FSD took the freeway.
 
Larry in TN said:
If it can't, they'd geofence the cars away from such areas.

The Waymo system is very different from the Tesla FSD system.

Tesla's FSD using eight exterior cameras as its only sensors and drives based on what it sees without regard to maps. (It does use the navigation to, well, navigate, but not to drive). FSD can drive on any road as long as it can identify it as a road, or parking lot, visually.

Waymo has a lot of sensors including radar and lidar. It can only drive in areas for which it has high definition data which is more detailed than Google maps. It can not (yet) drive on freeways. Take the car outside its geofenced area and it can't self-drive. It is that geo-fenced area that allows them to drive driverless in their service areas.
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Thanks, that's a lot more than I knew when I got up this morning..!!
 
Call me a curmudgeon but I’m not getting into Waymo (or similar) or owning a full EV.

Fortunately I’m old enough that alternatives will remain until after I’m gone west.
 
Half Fast said:
But such areas pop up all the time, without warning. Does it just stop and wait for help?
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They have to keep up with changes, such as construction, or the cars will get stuck. That's why they operate in such limited, geofenced areas. They have to have the hi-def data, including changes. That's how they got to Level 4 autonomy.

Tesla's approach is very different. Their goal is Level 5, which doesn't require geofencing or the hi-res data. They want to do it with vision only, not the expensive radar and lidar sensors. That puts them at Level 2, right now. Getting very close to Level 3 with FSD v12. Those intermediate steps are not the goal, though. Their goal is Level 5.

www.synopsys.com

The 6 Levels of Vehicle Autonomy Explained | Synopsys Automotive

Before merging onto roadways, self-driving cars will have to progress through 6 levels of driver assistance technology advancements. SAE defines 6 levels of driving automation ranging from 0 (fully manual) to 5 (fully autonomous). Learn more.
www.synopsys.com www.synopsys.com
 
The novelty wears off after about 1.5 minutes of riding in one. I won't pay extra for a driverless ride but, I don't mind them. Although, i have had some interesting uber/lyft rides that I could have done without.
 
X3 Skier said:
Call me a curmudgeon but I’m not getting into Waymo (or similar) or owning a full EV.

Fortunately I’m old enough that alternatives will remain until after I’m gone west.
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After watching my parents and others grow old and lose ability to drive safely, which directly impacts the ability to live independently (in my part of the world), I have actually been hoping that autonomous vehicles will become mature before I reach that point. However, based on progress to date, I am no longer optimistic that will happen. Maybe it will for the generation after me, though.
 
Jim_R said:
After watching my parents and others grow old and lose ability to drive safely, which directly impacts the ability to live independently (in my part of the world), I have actually been hoping that autonomous vehicles will become mature before I reach that point. However, based on progress to date, I am no longer optimistic that will happen. Maybe it will for the generation after me, though.
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Up until the last 5 years, I didn't think it would happen. Now, I think it will as Gen X'ers start hitting their mid 60's. Ironically, in contrast to your comment, the younger folks just aren't as in love with independence as the older ones are, and don't mind not owning a car, or being able to hop in and drive anywhere, anytime you feel like it without relying on anyone/thing else. The big thing holding up autonomous vehicles is getting all the manual drivers out of the way. The technology is already there if we simply threw all the manual drivers off the road. With all the cars talking to each other, it would be trivial to make it work. There are just too many of us Boomers and X'ers still refusing to let that happen. That will soon change.
 
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I think what’s missing is an intermediate step en route to autonomous cars. Before making self-driving 4-wheel vehicles work, let’s see what we can do with 2-wheeled ones. Autonomous motorcycles would require less power and less lane space and would be less threat to other vehicles and pedestrians. Also less debris to scrape up after a mishap.

Come on Ducati; get with the program.
 
Half Fast said:
I think what’s missing is an intermediate step en route to autonomous cars. Before making self-driving 4-wheel vehicles work, let’s see what we can do with 2-wheeled ones. Autonomous motorcycles would require less power and less lane space and would be less threat to other vehicles and pedestrians. Also less debris to scrape up after a mishap.

Come on Ducati; get with the program.
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You jest, but I think there could be a different "intermediate step" that I haven't really heard anyone discuss: Autonomous buses or vans. Rather than a taxi, which needs to be able to arbitrarily navigate point-to-point, define specific routes that are well-defined/understood and just navigate those, letting passengers on and off as appropriate. A few alternates for all route segments could be premapped and ready as fallbacks in case of road construction, accidents, or other issues, and an Uber-like app could be used to communicate to riders where the nearest stops are, even if something dynamic happens that requires a route change.

This seems like a much easier challenge to tackle, and it's not clear to me why nobody's pursuing this approach. (Or maybe they are and I'm just oblivious to it.)
 
Salty said:
Up until the last 5 years, I didn't think it would happen. Now, I think it will as Gen X'ers start hitting their mid 60's. Ironically, in contrast to your comment, the younger folks just aren't as in love with independence as the older ones are, and don't mind not owning a car, or being able to hop in and drive anywhere, anytime you feel like it without relying on anyone/thing else. The big thing holding up autonomous vehicles is getting all the manual drivers out of the way. The technology is already there if we simply threw all the manual drivers off the road. With all the cars talking to each other, it would be trivial to make it work. There are just too many of us Boomers and X'ers still refusing to let that happen. That will soon change.
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I have seen some pipe dreams in my life but this tops them all.
 
Salty said:
Up until the last 5 years, I didn't think it would happen. Now, I think it will as Gen X'ers start hitting their mid 60's. Ironically, in contrast to your comment, the younger folks just aren't as in love with independence as the older ones are, and don't mind not owning a car, or being able to hop in and drive anywhere, anytime you feel like it without relying on anyone/thing else. The big thing holding up autonomous vehicles is getting all the manual drivers out of the way. The technology is already there if we simply threw all the manual drivers off the road. With all the cars talking to each other, it would be trivial to make it work. There are just too many of us Boomers and X'ers still refusing to let that happen. That will soon change.
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Is there enough data yet to show that the safety record of autonomous vehicles equals or exceeds that of manual drivers in all of the locations where vehicles are used?

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com
 
Palmpilot said:
Is there enough data yet to show that the safety record of autonomous vehicles equals or exceeds that of manual drivers in all of the locations where vehicles are used?

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com

www.google.com

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.
www.google.com www.google.com
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Perhaps you missed my main point. They don't work until everything is automated and talking to each other. It's trivial to put "virtual rails" down even during construction that guide autonomous vehicles and even set speed limits, etc. The safety record of todays autonomous vehicles is not comparable. Cars will know about you if you carry your phone, and will not hit you. All trivial with todays tech.

A stop sign isn't a red octagon anymore, it's a beacon. And the construction guy holding the stop sign, is holding a portable stop sign beacon. Hell, you don't even need stop signs anymore, the cars can negotiate among themselves how to get past each other or wait for a blockage, etc. A lot of other things beyond what I've pointed out, but our level of tech is way beyond the capabilities needed to make that kind of system work. But it's got to be a closed system.

Once these young yahoos get into government in large numbers it'll happen quick. It'll start with a ban on manual drive cars on limited access highways. Mark this post for posterity.
 
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Salty said:
Perhaps you missed my main point. They don't work until everything is automated and talking to each other. It's trivial to put "virtual rails" down even during construction that guide autonomous vehicles and even set speed limits, etc. The safety record of todays autonomous vehicles is not comparable. Cars will know about you if you carry your phone, and will not hit you. All trivial with todays tech.

A stop sign isn't a red octagon anymore, it's a beacon. And the construction guy holding the stop sign, is holding a portable stop sign beacon. Hell, you don't even need stop signs anymore, the cars can negotiate among themselves how to get past each other or wait for a blockage, etc. A lot of other things beyond what I've pointed out, but our level of tech is way beyond the capabilities needed to make that kind of system work. But it's got to be a closed system.

Once these young yahoos get into government in large numbers it'll happen quick. It'll start with a ban on manual drive cars on limited access highways. Mark this post for posterity.
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I think you're overlooking the cost of installing all that tech in remote areas.

Or are we all going to be confined to cities and flatland?
 
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