Subaru mechanics on board? Or ...

gkainz

gkainz

Final Approach
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Greg Kainz
Or ... was thinking about working on just about anything else, like my jeep that might need a head gasket, so of course I was thinking "V-8 swap instead" or, I need to finish debadging and bedlining my truck, or the whole house fan motor just crapped out, or ...

instead, my youngest called and said "went in for a quote for 'why does this drive like crap and why are my tires ruined' and they call me back all apologetically with 'the whole suspension is pretty much shot, and it's going to be $3,300 for struts, bushings, and all the assorted bolts and nuts that probably have to be cut off"

car is a '06 Subaru Outback, and that price for repairs is about what the car is probably worth ...

So, with a quick glance at Rock Auto for reference and worst case estimate, assuming "change everything" -
struts $500
control arm bushings $150
ball joints $ 50
tie rod ends $ 50
sway bar & link bushings $ 50
bolts, nuts, etc ? $ 25
----------------------------- -------
Total wild guess $ 825

So the delta accounts for parts markup and somewhere around 20 hours of labor?

If a Subaru shop is guestimating 20 hours of labor ... how many chiropractor trips will this folly cost me if we take it on ourselves?
 
How often has he rotated his tires ?


I ran a 2001 Outback to 230k and never had any need for a 'full suspension overhaul'. The car is however picky when it comes to tires and rotation. The fully mechanical AWD requires you to rotate the tires religiously with every othe oil change.
 
gkainz said:
Or ... was thinking about working on just about anything else, like my jeep that might need a head gasket, so of course I was thinking "V-8 swap instead" or, I need to finish debadging and bedlining my truck, or the whole house fan motor just crapped out, or ...

instead, my youngest called and said "went in for a quote for 'why does this drive like crap and why are my tires ruined' and they call me back all apologetically with 'the whole suspension is pretty much shot, and it's going to be $3,300 for struts, bushings, and all the assorted bolts and nuts that probably have to be cut off"

car is a '06 Subaru Outback, and that price for repairs is about what the car is probably worth ...

So, with a quick glance at Rock Auto for reference and worst case estimate, assuming "change everything" -
struts $500
control arm bushings $150
ball joints $ 50
tie rod ends $ 50
sway bar & link bushings $ 50
bolts, nuts, etc ? $ 25
----------------------------- -------
Total wild guess $ 825

So the delta accounts for parts markup and somewhere around 20 hours of labor?

If a Subaru shop is guestimating 20 hours of labor ... how many chiropractor trips will this folly cost me if we take it on ourselves?
Click to expand...
If you’re going all in get all the rubber for the entire car. Not just control arms and what not. Also you’ll probably need to replace a lot (all)of the hardware if you live in an area that salts roads in winter.

Depending on condition of car and how you’re setup will change time prognosis. Floor jack, jack stands and having someone else press in new bushings on a rusty car from salt winter environment Figure a lot of Advil and 3-4 days.

Dry climate car on a lift with proper tools (press)and a helper one day and a six pack of beer.
 
Trade it in and get a different/surprise problem. Buys you some time.
 
It's a Subie, so go ahead and do the head gaskets while you're at it.
 
Replacing old suspension parts is a huge pain. For 2k in labor I could deal with the pain for sure.
 
If you have some good breaker bars or impact guns, it's probably not too bad unless it's a giant rust bucket underneath. I'd say for for it, even if it's just the control arm bushings, struts, and ball joints. Those will make a world of difference, the sway bar bushings and tie rod ends I would just replace as necessary.
 
Air tools go a long way in anesthetizing this job, especially an air hammer/chisel to drive bushings.
 
just talked with my son who talked with the shop owner who completely understood the starving student budget and just needs a reliable daily driver. The shop tends to use somewhat higher performance parts as their baseline, so everything they use is a step up from OEM, hence more cost.

Their recommendations:
Front
replace struts
Rear
replace struts
suspension upper arm and lower lateral link bushings torn - replace
tow adjusting arm bushings collapsed - replace

so, not as bad as I suspected, but no mention on the list about front control arms, tie rods, bushings, etc but in conversation he said they mentioned it.

pricing a fully loaded control arm with ball joints and bushings is pretty comparable to just purchasing parts, considering time.

air wrench - check!
gas wrench - check!
air chisel - check!
press - check!
chiropractor on call - check!

son just sent over a few pictures of underneath ... not as bad as expected - I've worked on worse.

And, since he's gone first 2 weeks of July, and we're gone 2nd 2 weeks of July, pushing this off until August allows a bit more planning time, too.
 
I'd definitely go with the new control arms with bushings installed...sooooo worth it. I've done my share of removing old, crusty bushings with cave man techniques, and it's not a great way to spend a weekend afternoon. Typically I'd go with a higher performance polyurethane bushing as the replacement, so installation was much easier.
 
I bought an ‘04 Outback brand new over 15 years ago. I replaced the clutch at 150k, head gasket at 120k. Change my own oil and never rotate the tires. Original tires over 100k, next set about 60k. I do a lot of simple maintenance. A little rot over the rear fenders that I fix every year or so. Drives great, plan on keeping the Subie at least another 5 years. That’s how I can afford a plane.

Wife drives a 2011 Forester. Oil, tires and brakes. That’s the “new” car. I’m a big fan of Subies.
 
My first car was an '87 Subaru GL, so I was an amateur Subaru mechanic for a few years. My Dad got it for $800 in the mid-90s. It was car from up North, plagued by rust. Luckily it was literally painted rust colored. Dents inside of other dents, I hit a few deer in it, adding even more dents. Got about 100k miles out it after I bought it, 200k total, and it was still running when we sold it. Surprisingly, I actually got girls in that eyesore.

No other help or point to this post, good luck.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I'd definitely go with the new control arms with bushings installed...sooooo worth it. I've done my share of removing old, crusty bushings with cave man techniques, and it's not a great way to spend a weekend afternoon. Typically I'd go with a higher performance polyurethane bushing as the replacement, so installation was much easier.
Click to expand...

Ten minutes work with an air hammer. Well worth the $35 from Amazon.
 
We have 3 outbacks and a Tribeca.
Never buy a 4 cylinder as it has a rubber timing belt which has a recommended replacement interval of 100k as opposed to the 6 cylinder with metal timing chain and no replacement interval. The 6 cylinder also has a much lower incidence of head gasket failure. The 6 cylinder also come with improved interiors.

The 06 is a 3rd generation outback with an inferior strut to the 2nd generation. Google "ghostwalking" in the 3rd generation series.

I would likely just sell it and buy another, especially if this is a 4 cylinder or has significant rust under the rear end. Not sure about the tires buy all 4 must be within 2/32 tread depth of each other or transmission damage will occur.

We have the 2011 Tribeca with 3.6r for sale at 6k.
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
I'd definitely go with the new control arms with bushings installed...sooooo worth it.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.... simplifies the overall job, and also "fixes" any issues of a bent suspension member that you didn't notice was a few mils out of alignment.

Speaking of alignments, plan on having this done at a reputable shop once you've swapped out all of the worn components. This will be dollars well spent to improve driving safety and tire wear.
 
Unless the car has a million miles on it or was horribly abused, it probably doesn’t need much for parts. You can guarantee that the lower control arm bushings are torn in that generation of car though.

All the bolts on the Subaru’s are nicely plated so they’ll come out easily. Even stuff with 250k miles driving in the salt ridden Midwest come apart well.

Get the car and assess what it really needs, then spend an afternoon on it. It’s easy and well worth the effort.
 
I'm quite happy with my 4 cylinder subie, but I don't mind the noise and desire to be revved higher. The newer ones also come with a timing chain versus a timing belt so that concern is removed. One of the few modern cars (mine is a 2017) I've worked on that actually has some room in the engine bay.
 
The thing with the new Subis is the have an interference engine... make sure your timing belt, roller and tensioners are spot on..
 
Ventucky Red said:
The thing with the new Subis is the have an interference engine... make sure your timing belt, roller and tensioners are spot on..
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Almost all relatively modern engines are interference engines and the majority of little car engines have timing belts. I can’t believe some of the comments in this thread; as if the results are going to be different buying a different engine from either the same or a different manufacturer.

The belts need to be changed, along with any idlers, water pumps, and tensioners, in order to minimize risk. Subaru’s are easy compared to some others.
 
mondtster said:
Almost all relatively modern engines are interference engines and the majority of little car engines have timing belts.
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Actually, a lot of them switched back to chains. For example Ecoboost, Ecotec, Skyactiv and EA888 all use chains. With DOHC, helps keep the cams in phase better than a stretchy belt.
 
asicer said:
Actually, a lot of them switched back to chains. For example Ecoboost, Ecotec, Skyactiv and EA888 all use chains. With DOHC, helps keep the cams in phase better than a stretchy belt.
Click to expand...

Likely for better emissions control. I’m aware that some are chain driven, my statement may have been better written saying the majority have belts, which I believe is still true. At least for now.
 
Zeldman said:
I like my Subaru, but I'll never get another one with a 4 cylinder.
Click to expand...

My dad bought a new '82 Subaru GL Wagon and it was definitely underpowered. When we bought our 2012 Outback, I insisted on the 6-cylinder 3.6R and have not been disappointed. We've got just shy of 100K miles on it.
 
Subaru's 3.6R motor is a very good motor. We have a 3.6R in the Tribeca and one of our 3 Outbacks. It is 256 hp as opposed to the 212 hp of the previous 3.0 motor. They also fixed some of the minor issues with accessories on the 3.0 such as the design on the power steering line which allows air to be entrained into the power steering fluid in very cold conditions. The 3.6R increase in hp is quite noticeable in acceleration but does also have an equally noticeable increase in fuel consumption.

One of our 2nd gen 3.0 LL Bean Outbacks had the transmission replaced with a transmission from one of the 4 cylinder Outbacks. That change made the 3.0 in that Outback noticeably more peppy; sort of like selecting sport mode in a car with that option. It still has pretty good fuel economy.
 
The only Subaru I've owned was a 1974 DL that we bought new while in college. Tune-ups were a piece of cake, everything was on top. Do a tune up and oil change in 15 minutes. That's the upside.

The downside was that the head gaskets would blow every 50,000 miles. And it wasn't a simple matter of pulling the heads and replacing the gaskets. The cylinders were sleeved and were on top of crush washers in the base of the block that had to be replaced each time the heads were pulled. That meant a total rebuild of the engine each time. It was ready for its third when I sold it (to a former Subaru mechanic who should have known better). Haven't had one since.
 
It's a really interesting engine to rebuild. Two halves bolted together around the crank and cam with long through-bolts. The performance folks who race these can do an overhaul in a few hours.
 
Ghery said:
The only Subaru I've owned was a 1974 DL that we bought new while in college. Tune-ups were a piece of cake, everything was on top
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Where they still putting the spare tire on top of the engine in '74.??
 
Zeldman said:
Where they still putting the spare tire on top of the engine in '74.??
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They were doing that in the ‘80s. I’m not sure what model year that started or ended with though.
 
Man, drove through the rim country going to Phoenix and back Friday and Saturday. That little 4 banger was winding up tight going up and down those 6 and 7% grades.
 
Zeldman said:
Where they still putting the spare tire on top of the engine in '74.??
Click to expand...

No, they weren't. It was in the trunk, where it belonged. Not sure when they stopped, but by the 1974 model they had gotten smart and put them someplace cooler. Now, I think the sheet metal in the engine compartment would probably have supported putting it there, but fortunately they didn't put the tire there.
 
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