I TAKE IT PERSONALLY
- Thread starter AuntPeggy
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Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
One thing I've learned from spending 20 years on-line -- anonymity is not possible.
Anyone can know who you are, at any time. Trying to hide your identity is completely futile, in the face of a determined investigator. You only THINK you're anonymous.
John Baker
Final Approach
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John Baker
Having a thread go awry every now and then, to me, is a heck of a lot more preferable than having a highly regimented board. We are here to kibitz with each other more than any other single reason.
We ask each other questions, we tell our stories, and for the most part, we enjoy the company of like minded people, it is why we are here....oh....and to have fun.
When we start attacking each other, that is when the moderators should step in. If a thread heads in a different direction, so what. If we were all standing in a group at a party, our conversations would be all over the place.
If there was a policeman at the party, making everyone stick to the opening subject, enforcing the rules, etc., it wouldn't be a party, would it?
Web forums that are tightly regimented and rule governed end up being just flat out boring, they seldom grow, and are rarely inviting to any newcomers, they are nothing more than subject oriented cliques.
For POA to grow, like it is doing, the only policing it really needs is when good people like us turn into complete *******s, then, and only then, should the moderators step in, much in the way they have been doing.
This is a highly successful pilots forum, it does not need fixing. The only thing we need to do is remind ourselves now and then, is to treat each other with respect.
-John
We ask each other questions, we tell our stories, and for the most part, we enjoy the company of like minded people, it is why we are here....oh....and to have fun.
When we start attacking each other, that is when the moderators should step in. If a thread heads in a different direction, so what. If we were all standing in a group at a party, our conversations would be all over the place.
If there was a policeman at the party, making everyone stick to the opening subject, enforcing the rules, etc., it wouldn't be a party, would it?
Web forums that are tightly regimented and rule governed end up being just flat out boring, they seldom grow, and are rarely inviting to any newcomers, they are nothing more than subject oriented cliques.
For POA to grow, like it is doing, the only policing it really needs is when good people like us turn into complete *******s, then, and only then, should the moderators step in, much in the way they have been doing.
This is a highly successful pilots forum, it does not need fixing. The only thing we need to do is remind ourselves now and then, is to treat each other with respect.
-John
skidoo
Line Up and Wait
How about some programming such as this:
For each post that is made, every member has ONE vote, when viewing that post, towards if that post is offensive, insulting, or whatever rule the mods decide to track. Then, that vote sets an offensive or insulting, etc... posts counter under the members number of posts count.
So, a member could end up with 5 total posts and a 5000 count of insults, or a member could end up with 5000 total posts with zero count of insults. It would quickly show to all members and more importantly the member being rude the feedback that a few or many others don't approve.
Then, you could set criteria such as after 25 or 50 initial posts or whatever the mods decide, if the number of insulting votes exceed say 2 times or 5 times or 50 times the number of posts, then you would automatically be entered into a vote off the island thread or whatever action the admins deem appropriate.
I could see how a ****ing contest could result in a vote back and forth, but since each could only get one vote,the results would likely be small when compared to unbiased viewers who decide to vote. So, a true insult would likely result in a minimum of say 50 votes for just one post. So, having a few votes against you should indicate no big deal. But, if one has a very high number of votes, especially in comparison to the number of total posts since starting such a program, then that could indicate a problem member.
One neat thing about such a program is that it ensures that any mod or admin is not taking any biased action against any member.
Of course, it would be up to the admins to assess the statistics and as time goes on as statistics are collected, the mods may want to adjust the math and formulas.
For each post that is made, every member has ONE vote, when viewing that post, towards if that post is offensive, insulting, or whatever rule the mods decide to track. Then, that vote sets an offensive or insulting, etc... posts counter under the members number of posts count.
So, a member could end up with 5 total posts and a 5000 count of insults, or a member could end up with 5000 total posts with zero count of insults. It would quickly show to all members and more importantly the member being rude the feedback that a few or many others don't approve.
Then, you could set criteria such as after 25 or 50 initial posts or whatever the mods decide, if the number of insulting votes exceed say 2 times or 5 times or 50 times the number of posts, then you would automatically be entered into a vote off the island thread or whatever action the admins deem appropriate.
I could see how a ****ing contest could result in a vote back and forth, but since each could only get one vote,the results would likely be small when compared to unbiased viewers who decide to vote. So, a true insult would likely result in a minimum of say 50 votes for just one post. So, having a few votes against you should indicate no big deal. But, if one has a very high number of votes, especially in comparison to the number of total posts since starting such a program, then that could indicate a problem member.
One neat thing about such a program is that it ensures that any mod or admin is not taking any biased action against any member.
Of course, it would be up to the admins to assess the statistics and as time goes on as statistics are collected, the mods may want to adjust the math and formulas.
Captain
Final Approach
Interesting. I don't think vbulletin has that ability though. Still a unique idea.
Except I have over 1300 posts and you only have 600'ish, so couldn't I, by my larger posting numbers, crush you if we got into a tizzy where we were voting against each other?
Except I have over 1300 posts and you only have 600'ish, so couldn't I, by my larger posting numbers, crush you if we got into a tizzy where we were voting against each other?
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Bob Noel
What prevents this type of voting system from devolving into a popularity contest?
And to the original OP: You shouldn't take it personally. If anyone actually was trying to pollute your thread(s) as an "attack" on you, it merely reflects poorly on them.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Actually, it does. And it has a "reputation" system. The problem is....
Nothing incorporated in the system prevents abuse.
We started out on this board using the "reputation" system and the "star" system, both of which were disabled after being abused. Now the "tags" system is being abused (and the MC is considering whether it adds value or subtracts value from the board).
I'm a fan of requiring comments because they are attached to a user name instead of stars/reputations/tags that can be manipulated without the person doing be manipulating being known to everyone.
There was a system did a similar function, it was done away with. This board is filled with whiny ******* who will even call you at home to tell you they don't like you and call you out yo a fight at OSH like this is High School.
You can add or remove all the features you want and you will never prevent abuse. You can't fix stupid or change human nature, the same problem as with everything, you just have to deal with it.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Correct. But it is a matter of value: if the (anon to the average user) points/reputation/stars/tags systems detract value rather than add, then there's no point in keeping them active. More for the mods to deal with & more opportunity for abuse. If they are net value positive, then it may be worth the effort.
Look around the internet. How many boards are using those features regularly to good benefit? I believe others have reached some of the same conclusions we have.
The problem with all this is you as the MC are becoming a 'nanny state' at this point. You are trying to regulate people's words and thoughts and that can't be done effectively while maintaining respect from the users.
Captain
Final Approach
So what do you (the users at large) want? Wild West where threads blossom and ideas are discussed until someone comes in and destroys it, or tight regulation where nothing gets destroyed but the thread never blossoms either?
Ideally people would be supportive of each other. But ideally I'd own a Steerman and a rocket ship. I don't see either happening any time soon.
Ideally people would be supportive of each other. But ideally I'd own a Steerman and a rocket ship. I don't see either happening any time soon.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don't think turning features on/off are being a "nanny state" at all. If those features aren't available, folks can post thoughts in the threads. Personally, I don't see the problem with that.
We're pretty light on moderating the forums, generally trying to follow the Rules of Conduct that everyone agreed to follow when they joined the board. The reason we have a MC of 5 (presently) is because we all have different views and we talk amongst ourselves before taking action (egregious conduct, such as spam, excepted). It really does take a lot to get booted from PoA.
Jaybird180
Final Approach
I was on a board and a long time member (and high poster - highly respected) got booted for life. It was a case of suicide by cop. Imagine someone like Scott D or Dr Bruce or Cap'n Ron going off the deep end, post after post and you'll have a good analogy.
Boards flourish when ideas are allowed to develop. Sometimes a tizzy happens before the threads bear fruit. I don't want to see PoA become too strict although there are times the decorum and personal attacks get distracting. Sometimes it's just entertainment, other times it's a waste of server space. Either case it helps establish the credibility or lack thereof of the poster.
Boards flourish when ideas are allowed to develop. Sometimes a tizzy happens before the threads bear fruit. I don't want to see PoA become too strict although there are times the decorum and personal attacks get distracting. Sometimes it's just entertainment, other times it's a waste of server space. Either case it helps establish the credibility or lack thereof of the poster.
There was a system did a similar function, it was done away with. The Internet is filled with whiny ******* who will even call you at home to tell you they don't like you and call you out yo a fight at OSH like this is High School.
FTFY...
---
Did someone really "call you out" to fight at OSH? Really?
I'm trying to imagine getting worked up to fight at Oshkosh, and how blessedly ridiculous they'd look in the process.
Oshkosh Bystander: "Why are you attacking this guy"
Henning's clueless instigator: "He insulted me on the Internet."
(Unprecedented and widespread laughter and ridicule of caller-outer ensues)
You can turn off every feature and it will change nothing, the issue isn't with boards or features, the issue is in brains. You guys can jump through every hoop you can imagine over every complaint and it will change nothing except fuel those people who act for reaction.
As we all know the only way to control a board is through out right banishment, and that has been done here before. It's either that or just have a breath, sit back and ignore it. All you guys are doing is feeding the troll.
Haven't seen this posted yet. Always a fave:
Sheer genius in one panel.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
There was a system did a similar function, it was done away with. This board is filled with whiny ******* who will even call you at home to tell you they don't like you and call you out yo a fight at OSH like this is High School.
Oh, come on -- I'm calling BS on that one.
I've been involved in every possible on-line discussion/argument/dispute since the rec.aviation days -- all under my own name. I've been to OSH every year for 29 years, and thrown a party that is open to ALL members of every on-line forum AT MY CAMPSITE.
Worse, I've owned two aviation themed hotels, frequented by these very same pilots. Needless to say, there has been ample opportunity for some "whiny *****" to come up and pick a fight with me.
It just doesn't happen.
In fact, in every case, when we have finally met face-to-face in Oshkosh, whomever it was, and whatever our dispute may have been, all of us have drank beer and had a fine time. In the end, we are all pilots, people who have achieved something very special, indeed, united in our love of aviation -- and this forum really does not matter at all in that larger picture.
Those who believe that it does are mistaken.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
It happened just the other day, swear to what you call God...
Hell, for ten years I've had a toll free phone number published in the link on my signature line, and no one has ever called to hassle me about what I've posted.
You're just special, I guess.
And you really should leave the Flying Spaghetti Monster out of this, lest we experience a fatal thread drift.
skidoo
Line Up and Wait
Say on your 1301st post, I vote on that post, I can not vote again on that particular post. But, say I am really mad, so I go back and find every thread you posted and vote on them. You now have 1301 votes. There ares plenty of different ways to set up the logic and math. For example, make the display the highest votes per post or say 3 or 5 highest voted posts, or simply have the system ignore the first two votes on any post. So, that would ensure that simply yours and my votes against each other simply do not count.
The admins could even set a no action policy until enough data is collected to make a rational change in policy. They may find it of no use and throw it out. Or, they may find it very helpful.
Wow, we're getting into the realm of $200 solutions to a problem that cannot be fixed.
skidoo
Line Up and Wait
I could see how it could have some aspects of an UnPopularity contest. We may all get some unpopularity votes, but those who really anger or offend others, the numbers would show it. Then for that member, if he sees his own numbers climbing, he may either get the message to tone it down, or he may be bent on getting his number as high as possible, in which case the admins would have plenty of ammo to justify taking action.
It was already done during the early days of this board, there was a "Reputation" scoring and it made a childish mess as children do.
skidoo
Line Up and Wait
But how was it set up? There are millions of different ways to set up such a system. Because one method did not work doesn't mean another formula won't. It would help if those who knew the system analyzed as to why it did not work.
I saw on this thread some admins expressing frustration and looking for ideas. I have suggested something to consider. They can take it or leave it. If they want more input from me, they can PM me... Otherwise, that is all the input I have.
It doesn't matter because none of them will work, it's like anything else, you cannot control others behavior. You can allow them to do what they do, you can counsel them, and you can banish them, that's really the only three things you can do, everything else is just wasting effort and even making the situation worse because it feeds bad behavior.
John Baker
Final Approach
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John Baker
I joined this board so I could kick me some ass. Nothing like a good fight to get the blood flowing YEEEE HAWWWW!
-John
-John
skidoo
Line Up and Wait
John Baker
Final Approach
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John Baker
Actually, Jay is right. We are all pilots, there is nothing but air between us. If we were going to get in actual fights, it would have happened a long time ago. It never has.
-John
-John
John Baker
Final Approach
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John Baker
This board is great they way it is. It ain't broke, it don't need fixin.
-John
-John
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
LOL, I'm all for a solution, "kill all humans" just isn't something I can pull off until I complete my doomsday device.
MSPAviator
Cleared for Takeoff
I've noticed this forum has become a bit pedantic. It's been a turnoff and I find myself coming here less often.
PPRuNE does a better job...
PPRuNE does a better job...
silver-eagle
En-Route
It would be like an episode of "TOP SHOT". The guy who seems to have contributed the most to constructive discussions will get the boot.At regular intervals take a "biggest jerk" pole. The top three vote getters are "voted off the island" for a week...or a month...or whatever.
That'd be entertaining!
Maybe quite counter productive but entertaining nonetheless.
Any conversation has the potential to devolve into nitpicking, sniping, whining, boasting, etc. You shouldn't take it personally. Even best of friends and especially family go through these phases. We just have to look past the occasional episode of braincramps.
The internet makes it worse since we have the feeling of familiarity so anything goes.
I don't think locking a thread does much to defuse the tension. Maybe it would be better to give the offender a "safety standdown". Delete the original post. Notify the rest of us. Carry on.
If we all realize there is a real consequence, maybe we'd be less inclined to swing.
denverpilot
Tied Down
"Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs..." - Paul McCartney & Wings
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
"Some people want to fill the world with silly love songs..." - Paul McCartney & Wings
That's a song that I NEVER wanted to be reminded of ever again! You're off the island.
JoeSelch
Pattern Altitude
That's a song that I NEVER wanted to be reminded of ever again! You're off the island.
What's wrong with that?
denverpilot
Tied Down
I'd like to know.
