I TAKE IT PERSONALLY

Henning said:
Why? Why should we encourage bad behavior. I voted many years ago to eliminate annonimity, I was out voted then so I quit campaigning for it. Now possibly there is some statistical software in this that will allow us to look at the posting quality for content in the intervening years and see how that compares between those who post openly under their real name and those who post annonimously? I know I am not the only one who campaigned for openness back then, many good posters gone because the problems never went away. The fact that it has not gone away after all those years as Chuck alludes to buys me a limited bit of grousing that I do.;) I still think open name acquisition should be required.

It's just the Internet, it's entertainment that isn't television. FMD, if you aren't entertained, change the channel! If you can't take a beating don't issue a challenge lol.
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Eliminating Anonymity... There's a thought.

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bartmc said:
Eliminating Anonymity... There's a thought.
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:rofl::rofl: Most people who would bother with that will not be wasting their time here.;) People could also require a verification process outside the Internet.
 
Henning, how are you going to enforce true identities? When asked for a full name, I enter FirstName: Aunt, LastName: Peggy.

Once got me an email offering me a book containing the ancestry and shield for the "Peggy" family name.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Today I was filling out a defect report and it occurs to me that I have been using the same philosophy, skills, training, and procedures on this board as well as in life.

1) Report the problem in enough detail to be recognizable.
a) Report the location and environment of the defect.
b) Report the history of the defect.

2) Describe the actions.
a) Describe the actions leading up to the defect.
b) Describe the expected actions. Sometimes this is implied in the description of unexpected actions.
c) Describe the unexpected actions.
d) Describe the potential risk and interactions.
e) Describe known or potential work-arounds.

3) Provide additional detail as requested.

4) It is not your problem.
a) The problem is owned by those who caused it.
b) Do not attempt to solve the problem yourself.
c) Do not attempt to tell others how to solve the problem.

5) Once the problem is declared resolved, retest and report the results.

The problem I reported followed the same scenario:
Location: PoA board.
History: Occurred from my earliest experience and continuing in the present.
Precursor: Posting a thread with innocuous content.
Expected: Courteous discussion, potential feedback.
Unexpected: Rudeness, squabbling, locked thread.
Risk: Unstated originally, provided by later comments: Loss of membership, participation, and reputation.
Workarounds: Unstated originally, provided by later comments: Ignore the issue, regulation or enforcement, self-control.
Additional: None.
Assigned to: No one.
Status: Unresolved.

Now, going back to number 4:
Ignoring the problem does not make it go away. If you don't report the defect or if you just shrug your shoulders and accept it, the defect continues to occur and increase the risk. In fact, unresolved defects and rude behavior tend to build upon and reinforce themselves until the entire project becomes unusable. This same philosophy is true for software defects, unruly school children, alcoholics, or the Internet.

If you didn't cause the problem, you cannot fix it. Henning (and many others) are correct in saying that the problem will not be resolved with regulation or enforcement. Those who say it cannot be resolved are incorrect. This same philosophy is true for software defects, unruly school children, alcoholics, or the Internet.

So far as I can see, the resolution comes when the persons who caused the problem take ownership of it and determine to resolve it. I saw one instance of that in this thread. This same philosophy is true for software defects, unruly school children, alcoholics, or the Internet.
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You have written a SPR against a requirement that does not exist. Your looking for a question and answer system not a discussion board. Discussions by their very nature cannot be directed into a certain course but rather like streams go where they will subject to outside influences. If anything I would consider the thread lock a defect as it throttles a conversation. I understand it's need but it does restrict what is supposed to be the function of this system, IE a free form discussion
 
The requirement is to not call others names. The problem is owned by those who were rude. It was misdirected to the MC. Freeform discussion does not need to include rudeness or childish behavior.
 
jtheune said:
I understand it's need but it does restrict what is supposed to be the function of this system, IE a mostly free form discussion
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Fixed that for you.

PoA wasn't intended to be a bar-room brawl. Civil discussion and debate is fine - but "free form" implies "anything goes" - and that's never been ok here.
 
AuntPeggy said:
Henning, how are you going to enforce true identities? When asked for a full name, I enter FirstName: Aunt, LastName: Peggy.

Once got me an email offering me a book containing the ancestry and shield for the "Peggy" family name.
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Not sure, I'd imagine it would take some investigation prior to approval, there are ways to confirm identity over the internet as well, and identity confirmation would be required for posting.
 
Henning said:
Not sure, I'd imagine it would take some investigation prior to approval, there are ways to confirm identity over the internet as well, and identity confirmation would be required for posting.
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Pay a dollar a year might be a start.
 
AuntPeggy said:
The requirement is to not call others names. The problem is owned by those who were rude. It was misdirected to the MC. Freeform discussion does not need to include rudeness or childish behavior.
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If we all had the same definition of childish behaviour that maybe might work. But we don't. You even had me on your 'bad list'. Imagine that! Oh the irony. As you recall you (and many) were upset I called you out on a written forum rule. Written but not enforced. Now you want to hold people to a non-written or at least subjective rule of 'Dont be childish'?

We don't even follow the real rules, what makes you think people would follow subjective rules?

Alexb2000 said:
Pay a dollar a year might be a start.
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Okay, say 90% of the 'bad guys' leave because a dollar isn't worth it to them. I think that number is high by ahoy 88 points btw...but say they go.

How many 'good guys' are going to leave too and worse, never join, over that dollar?
 
Captain said:
Okay, say 90% of the 'bad guys' leave because a dollar isn't worth it to them. I think that number is high by ahoy 88 points btw...but say they go.

How many 'good guys' are going to leave too and worse, never join, over that dollar?
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Pilots are notoriously cheap, but come on a dollar a year?

Its not the money, only a way to verify there is a real person out there with the means to pay. One step toward removing some anonimity and making it just a little harder for the trolls. I don't think any "bad guys" are going to go. Their egos demand that they have an audience no matter what. Kind of like the street preachers screaming from the top of a mailbox.

BTW- Removing anonymity doesn't mean you couldn't have a function for anonymous posts for sensitive topics.
 
Captain said:
If we all had the same definition of childish behaviour that maybe might work. But we don't. You even had me on your 'bad list'. Imagine that! Oh the irony. As you recall you (and many) were upset I called you out on a written forum rule. Written but not enforced. Now you want to hold people to a non-written or at least subjective rule of 'Dont be childish'?

We don't even follow the real rules, what makes you think people would follow subjective rules?



Okay, say 90% of the 'bad guys' leave because a dollar isn't worth it to them. I think that number is high by ahoy 88 points btw...but say they go.

How many 'good guys' are going to leave too and worse, never join, over that dollar?
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The dollar a year isn't about scaring them off over a dollar, it's about identification confirmation with a credit/debit card. Really only need to do it once like Paypal does.
 
Isn't pay-to-play what AvSIG is for?

(Still alive after all these years after Compuserve. Amazing.)
 
Recently I had all the paint touched up on my Warrior, it was looking pretty decent until I got to the main wings. Now the new paint doesn't match the old. What I'm wondering is if some sort of rubbing compound might brighten up the old paint to where it matches the new paint. Any recommendations on rubbing compounds?

Also, how long should I wait before putting a good coat of wax on the new paint?

-John
 
denverpilot said:
Isn't pay-to-play what AvSIG is for?
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I belong to a pay-to-play aviation board (not AvSig). I think they charge about $10/year and you also need to be at least a commercial pilot, which they check on the FAA database. The mods know your real name but you can use a screen name if desired. Discussion on that board can get quite heated too, but it keeps the real trolls away to a great extent.
 
AuntPeggy said:
*MY* THREAD WAS LOCKED. I TAKE IT PERSONALLY.
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So fundamentally it was an action by the moderators that triggered your reaction here. Ironically then, I believe your beef would appear to be partly with the moderators.

I believe all the posters in the original thread who were allegedly being insulting were long time members who are normally civil and reasonable.

Anonymity doesn't seem to be a factor in this case - at least to me.

Too bad a thread can't be set to lock out only those posters who have persisted in using insults after having been warned privately to be more diplomatic in any future posts on that thread.
 
I've got a therory about threads...

When I post a new thread the OP makes it "MY" thread. But as soon as just one person replies doesn't that make it "OUR" thread?


If I strike up a conversation with a group of people at a function it isn't MY conversation...it's OUR conversation. Personally, I don't think anyone owns any of these threads. The closest you could get is someone owns the server. Short of that we ALL own ALL of these threads.

Just my observation.
 
Jim Logajan said:
So fundamentally it was an action by the moderators that triggered your reaction here. Ironically then, I believe your beef would appear to be partly with the moderators.

I believe all the posters in the original thread who were allegedly being insulting were long time members who are normally civil and reasonable.

Anonymity doesn't seem to be a factor in this case - at least to me.

Too bad a thread can't be set to lock out only those posters who have persisted in using insults after having been warned privately to be more diplomatic in any future posts on that thread.
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Right. Mainly, it would be best if members simply stay civil and reasonable.
 
We should form a committee. Then that committee could issue a report. Then we'll form another committee to study the report, ...
 
Matthew said:
We should form a committee. Then that committee could issue a report. Then we'll form another committee to study the report, ...
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Yes, but who'll pay for it all? We need to raise some taxes for the revenue stream required, and hire some accountants to track it all.
 
Google "John Gabriel Internet"
 
jesse said:
Believe me -- the MC is working on this -- if you have ideas of how we can improve things here please shoot them my way.
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If we just took every third offender and took them out back, beat them senselessly then administered a coup de grace with 12 gauge buckshot I suspect the issue would trend down sharply.

Word travels fast :goofy:
 
So, it happened again.

My beef is not with the moderators. What they did is to proactively attempt to put an end to the uncivil behavior of several members of this forum. The bitter and bullying tone of this board is spiraling out of control.

Good, decent, respectable people are being driven away while the coarser and ruder members are increasing their venom.

Please, guys, just show some respect for each other.
 
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It's irritating to see the uncivil behavior, but it's even more irritating to see threads locked by the moderators. Personally, I think that's the "easy" way out. My suggestion would be to have habitual offenders either suspended or banned, but perhaps that would require too much effort to track and equitably apply. Another potential solution would be to remove anonymity, which is a feature of Internet forums that I suspect helps contribute to the problem.

Overall, it seems that the moderation here is rather conservative compared with other forums, which I appreciate. If threads get locked or posts get deleted because a participant expresses a strong opinion, that significantly compromises the value of the forum. Some folks are not comfortable with strong or heated debate, but without it, learning is often compromised. There are still folks who take to complaining about threads which contain content that they simply don't like, rather than ignoring those threads. Moderators who act on such complaints are engaging in censorship, which also does not advance the cause of knowledge. I suspect that the moderators must balance freedom with liability, and so far, PoA seems to err on the side of a more open debate. I hope that practice continues.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
Some folks are not comfortable with strong or heated debate, but without it, learning is often compromised.
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No, there are some folks who believe that a debate should be held civilly...even Oxford style...and should never resort to shouting down, cutting down, cutting off, and belittling your opponent as Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow so love to do.

People who debate like these bastions of extreme views are the problem and we have many here that use those tactics.
 
AP, while I often disagree with some of your positions, I fully agree with this post.
AuntPeggy said:
So, it happened again.

My beef is not with the moderators. What they did is to proactively attempt to put an end to the uncivil behavior of several members of this forum. The bitter and bullying tone of this board is spiraling out of control.

Good, decent, respectable people are being driven away while the coarser and ruder members are increasing their venom.

Please, guys, just show some respect for each other.
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Those that won't abide need to be warned, warned again, then banned.
 
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