WannFly
Final Approach
That. I suspect Garmin is going to sell a crap ton of 375. I want one right now .... but pocket doesn’t agree
Garmin just dropped a bomb on the avionics market...
- Thread starter flyingcheesehead
- Start date
That. I suspect Garmin is going to sell a crap ton of 375. I want one right now .... but pocket doesn’t agree
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
Garmin says these will talk to Piper AutoControl IIIB APs, which are attitude based Century IIs. How is that possible if they can't read the attitude from the G5/G3X?
They'll talk to pretty much all the standard APs.
That combo is where Garmin is going to kill it - especially since it is only $3000 more to make it an engine monitor too.
Well, there is. It is called getting a 650 or 750 with a 345R
That's exactly what they are aimed at.
Yes, they will talk to anything the G5 talks to.
The 375 is pretty amazing. Someone could almost order it as just a transponder and on screen CDI, then dedicate their Nav/Com GPS to being a map and feeding a CDI or HSI.
It is pretty impressive.
Well, you can't fly IFR without a back up VOR, so you'd still need something.
I don't necessarily see that. Unless they put radios in the 175/375.
HA! Try and fly anywhere in California, except parts of the Central Valley, with "only direct." No, you still can file using airways when you are /G.
You don't get to fly LPV approaches if you can't fly at least VOR approaches. Well, you can for practice.
Don't remove the nav/com. If you want to keep both nav/coms, just use the one as a radio only. Then have the 375 feed a CDI head in its place.
Seriously - it is a pretty interesting box.
They'll talk to pretty much all the standard APs.
That combo is where Garmin is going to kill it - especially since it is only $3000 more to make it an engine monitor too.
Well, there is. It is called getting a 650 or 750 with a 345R
That's exactly what they are aimed at.
Yes, they will talk to anything the G5 talks to.
The 375 is pretty amazing. Someone could almost order it as just a transponder and on screen CDI, then dedicate their Nav/Com GPS to being a map and feeding a CDI or HSI.
It is pretty impressive.
Well, you can't fly IFR without a back up VOR, so you'd still need something.
I don't necessarily see that. Unless they put radios in the 175/375.
HA! Try and fly anywhere in California, except parts of the Central Valley, with "only direct." No, you still can file using airways when you are /G.
You don't get to fly LPV approaches if you can't fly at least VOR approaches. Well, you can for practice.
Don't remove the nav/com. If you want to keep both nav/coms, just use the one as a radio only. Then have the 375 feed a CDI head in its place.
That. I suspect Garmin is going to sell a crap ton of 375. I want one right now .... but pocket doesn’t agree
Seriously - it is a pretty interesting box.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
The FAA is all about "standard of care." If you think about it in terms of pilot certificates, a student pilot is only allowed to kill themselves. A recreational or sport pilot can kill themselves and one friend or family member. A private pilot can kill several friends and family members. A commercial pilot can kill unsuspecting paying passengers, and an airline transport pilot can kill at LOT of unsuspecting paying passengers.
That's why it's a helluva lot harder to get an ATP than a student pilot certificate. Every step you take up the ladder requires more experience, more training, more knowledge, tighter standards in your flying, and in enforcement proceedings there will be less leniency the farther up the ladder you go.
Now, the fact that an E-AB must be built by an amateur builder tends to naturally limit the size of the aircraft. I think the Epic turboprops are the biggest E-ABs that are out there.
Experimentals tend to be small and light, whether that's due to regulation or just difficulty. They're also required to fly 50 hours off to at least prove some semblance of airworthiness before they're allowed to function like the rest of us, and that is likely based on some statistics about when mechanical failures of newly built E-ABs tends to happen.
So, there's a risk profile there that, while it's more likely to result in a mechanical cause of an accident, is somewhat mitigated by the fly-off period when it comes to carrying passengers, informs those passengers of the higher risk via required signage in E-ABs so that they can better decide for themselves if they want to take that risk, and for John Q Public, the planes tend to be small and thus not cause much damage if they do fall on them. And that is what the FAA bases their standard of care on for the E-ABs.
So Occam's Razor. Who would have an inherent interest in keeping a certified can otherwise owned and operated recreationally, under the draconian certification rules of a de facto "revenue aviation" pricing structure? I can think of two at least: the OEMs, and the FAA. They [OEM] want legacy certified cans in the scrap yards right yesterday. They don't want them flying another 30 years. EXAB rules would allow the latter, and well we just can't have that now can we?
E-AB rules do NOT allow you to magically fly a normal category airplane longer. You can't just make a Cessna into an experimental (though this misconception seems to persist in some circles). It's not amateur built, so it's not E-AB. It's also not any of the other categories of experimental:
* R&D: Unless the design of the airplane has been modified, it's not R&D, and E-R&D airworthiness certificates expire after a year anyway.
* Flight Test: Unless you're in the process of applying for a type certificate or STC, this doesn't apply.
* Crew Training: Again, unless you're a manufacturer pursuing a new certification, this doesn't apply.
* Exhibition: Your spam can doesn't have the required "unusual characteristics" and there are generally additional restrictions on E-E planes.
* Air Racing: Have you modified your spam can for racing? No? Doesn't apply.
* Market Survey: Unless you're a manufacturer, you can't do this - And E-MS airworthiness certificates expire in a year.
* E-LSA: Nope.
Canada does have an Experimental - Owner Maintenance category. The US does not, no matter how much people wish for it. Even if we did, I don't think much would change. Most people don't do their own maintenance as it is, and if it allowed you to do more E-AB like things such as using experimental avionics so that ownership was cheaper, I don't think it would have any effect on new sales for the OEMs. Nobody who's maintaining their own 30-year-old airplane is also in the market for a brand-new one at today's prices. If the OEMs want to sell more airplanes, they're going to have to get the cost down so that they have a larger addressable market for their product.
Baby steps. We've gone from 10x to 3x. We just need to fly with this stuff for another decade and establish that it still hasn't had any detriment to the overall safety record, and they'll relax things even more. Sport Pilot came about in September 2004, and over time several thousand sport pilots were certified. In May of 2017, after realizing that medical certificates do not, in fact, factor into the lift equation, the FAA gave us BasicMed.
We just had the part 23 rewrite... Give it another 15 years, and maybe we'll be able to get things relaxed further.
I don't think so. I was reading some install manuals and they have "FAA-PMA" stamped on the certified ones. They likely have different software loaded when they come from the factory.
Because Dynon is the big player in the experimental market, and their experimental stuff costs more than Garmin's. For the comparison I did above (was that this thread? I dunno), the Garmin experimental stuff cost $7K and change, the Dynon experimental stuff would have been about double that.
Also, when I looked at Dynon's site, they were listing $4K for the STC now. Maybe certification is turning out to be harder than they thought.
I don't think Garmin was raping GA. Garmin, as a company, was started because of GA, and is very encouraging of GA. Garmin offers ALL of their employees financial support toward flight training. From https://careers.garmin.com/en-US/#benefits:
"Pilot Certification
At Garmin, we want our associates to take flight — literally. We offer financial assistance for the costs associated with pilot certification and ground school. We also provide reimbursement for a portion of the hourly rental rate when using participating vendors and clubs."
Garmin, however, is a business, and a business is supposed to make money. Garmin likely knows that, like most businesses, their addressable market increases when their prices are lower. However, they can't get around the cost of certification when working in the certified market. So, they set their prices at a point where they are likely to recoup their costs of R&D and certification, and be able to make a modest profit.
The G3X Touch being certified is an example of the addressable market equation at work. It makes NO sense for them to undercut their own product (the G500 TXi) that just came out recently, unless they think that the lower price point will allow them to sell enough more units with the same absolute profit margin that it'll pay for the certification of both units, or at least pretty close to it (minus the expected sales of the TXi to date, and future sales to piston twin owners).
Every year at Oshkosh when you ask when it's shipping, they say "Q4." In 2017, I asked the BK rep, "Q4 of which year?" and he said "2018. I MEAN 2017!!!" Uh, no, you meant 2018. And it even slipped further than that. I guess they can theoretically say it's shipping, even though it's not going to sell at all until the KA-310 is out.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
Where Garmin may really take a hit is in G5 sales. I was all set to put G5s and an EDM930 in the Tiger, but now I'm probably going G3x dual with engine monitor.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
They'll talk to any autopilot - but ONLY to provide heading and course deviation, not attitude. So, you can hook it to your AutoControl, but you'll need to keep your Century attitude indicator as well.
Well, maybe. If you get the 10+7 combo, the 10" is only a PFD and the 7" is only an MFD. You can't, for example, put the 10" display on the left as a combo PFD+MFD and then put the 7" on the right as another PFD+MFD, or even just a PFD.
Frankly, I'm kinda bummed about that. We've been trying to figure out what our panel should look like in the Mooney when all is said and done. We saw one panel a couple years ago that had a G500, GTN 750/650, MVP-50 (giant engine monitor), and a smaller glass backup display, and both of us looked at it and said "There's not enough 'stuff' in that panel."
Right now, we have a ton of "stuff" on the left side of the panel, then a big radio stack in the middle with audio panel, 750, and KFC 150. Then, there's a second short radio stack in front of the right seat with a KX 165 and a GTX 345 at the bottom, a big blank plate above it, and just a tiny 2 1/4" engine monitor and the ELT arming control at the top.
With the glass panel taking a lot of "stuff" out of the panel, we kind of want to fill some of the blank spaces. My best idea so far was to put an AirGizmo iPad Mini dock where the blank plate and engine monitor currently live, and when there was one pilot aboard we could take advantage of the TXi + Garmin Pilot feature where the tablet can function as an EIS display with live streaming data from the TXi, and if there was a second pilot aboard, we could have the moving map + PFD fed from the panel.
We would have given Garmin a lot more money if the TXi 7" display could function as a split PFD+MFD the way the G3X Touch 7" display can, as well as switching to full screen EIS. And it would have worked with a single TXi display plus a docked iPad... But now, there really isn't any reason for us to go with the TXi over the G3X Touch, and while the 10+7 package deal got me really excited, it just won't do what we want it to do in filling up that right-hand side... Plus, it takes away the iPad option since it doesn't do the data streaming the TXi does!
So, now it's kinda back to square one there. (Ideas welcome.)
However... To me, a single 10+ G3X Touch, a G5, and a GFC500 is a killer combo. While the dual-display G3X Touch only does display reversion (it's a single AHRS system), having the G3X Touch + G5 gives you dual AHRS with miscompare alerts, plus redundant attitude and control systems for the GFC 500... In addition to all the other coolness you get from having such a nice glass panel.
I don't think it's too much of a "hit" to Garmin if you spend $15,000 on their stuff instead of $5,000.
Plus, I bet a lot of G5s will still be sold as backups.
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
They'll talk to any autopilot - but ONLY to provide heading and course deviation, not attitude. So, you can hook it to your AutoControl, but you'll need to keep your Century attitude indicator as well.
Well, maybe. If you get the 10+7 combo, the 10" is only a PFD and the 7" is only an MFD. You can't, for example, put the 10" display on the left as a combo PFD+MFD and then put the 7" on the right as another PFD+MFD, or even just a PFD.
Frankly, I'm kinda bummed about that. We've been trying to figure out what our panel should look like in the Mooney when all is said and done. We saw one panel a couple years ago that had a G500, GTN 750/650, MVP-50 (giant engine monitor), and a smaller glass backup display, and both of us looked at it and said "There's not enough 'stuff' in that panel."
Right now, we have a ton of "stuff" on the left side of the panel, then a big radio stack in the middle with audio panel, 750, and KFC 150. Then, there's a second short radio stack in front of the right seat with a KX 165 and a GTX 345 at the bottom, a big blank plate above it, and just a tiny 2 1/4" engine monitor and the ELT arming control at the top.
With the glass panel taking a lot of "stuff" out of the panel, we kind of want to fill some of the blank spaces. My best idea so far was to put an AirGizmo iPad Mini dock where the blank plate and engine monitor currently live, and when there was one pilot aboard we could take advantage of the TXi + Garmin Pilot feature where the tablet can function as an EIS display with live streaming data from the TXi, and if there was a second pilot aboard, we could have the moving map + PFD fed from the panel.
We would have given Garmin a lot more money if the TXi 7" display could function as a split PFD+MFD the way the G3X Touch 7" display can, as well as switching to full screen EIS. And it would have worked with a single TXi display plus a docked iPad... But now, there really isn't any reason for us to go with the TXi over the G3X Touch, and while the 10+7 package deal got me really excited, it just won't do what we want it to do in filling up that right-hand side... Plus, it takes away the iPad option since it doesn't do the data streaming the TXi does!
So, now it's kinda back to square one there. (Ideas welcome.)
However... To me, a single 10+ G3X Touch, a G5, and a GFC500 is a killer combo. While the dual-display G3X Touch only does display reversion (it's a single AHRS system), having the G3X Touch + G5 gives you dual AHRS with miscompare alerts, plus redundant attitude and control systems for the GFC 500... In addition to all the other coolness you get from having such a nice glass panel.
I don't think it's too much of a "hit" to Garmin if you spend $15,000 on their stuff instead of $5,000.
Well, if you don't have enough "stuff," I guess you could always spend the money on another 7" G3x with another AHRS source ;-).
The G3x/G5/GFC500 combo is a great combo. That said, I want to replace the JPI 800 anyway and the G3x 7" is a nice option over the EDM 930. Also, my STEC30 does the job in the Tiger, which Garmin didn't certify their electric trim from the GFC500 for, when following GPSS with with altitude hold. No need to spend even more. I may still do a G5 HSI as a backup, hook that up to the second 650 and keep it in HSI mode unless it there's a complete and catastrophic electrical failure and I switch it to attitude. I'll still have a TC anyway, with the AP.
There's a point on that last one.
MooneyDriver78
En-Route
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2013
- Messages
- 4,541
- Display Name
Display name:
Tom
I don’t think they’re going to be upset about that.
Don’t forget the G5 will be used as a backup...what is cost of a G3X battery anyway?
Tom
So Garmin is "raping" pilots?
Hell, I wish their stuff was cheaper. Maybe even free. Don't think it works that way.
They've been driving innovation since I've been involved in aviation, and these latest announcements are very exciting.
Perspective: The inflation-adjusted price of a Narco Mark 12 Nav-Com from 1965 is around $8,000.00. We've made progress!
Hell, I wish their stuff was cheaper. Maybe even free. Don't think it works that way.
They've been driving innovation since I've been involved in aviation, and these latest announcements are very exciting.
Perspective: The inflation-adjusted price of a Narco Mark 12 Nav-Com from 1965 is around $8,000.00. We've made progress!
bnt83
Final Approach
G3X is dealer install only so I have no interest in it. The only thing I'd take it to a dealer for is a GFC500 which isn't certified for my make & model anyway.
Th G3X doesn't address standby power, the G5s can all have their own battery for $150 each.
I'm pretty sure that the G3X will require cutting a whole new panel to make it fit, there are a lot of aircraft out there where that is a big deal, we own two of them, you cannot just unscrew the whole pilots panel and screw on a different one like later aircraft. That kind of work IMHO will require a separate approval on them. I think labor will stop a lot people dead in their tracks, where the G5s and Aspens take minimal structural mods to install. At a bare minimum I'd guess a basic G3X installed in IFR airplane labor will be double the labor for a dual G5 system.
Th G3X doesn't address standby power, the G5s can all have their own battery for $150 each.
I'm pretty sure that the G3X will require cutting a whole new panel to make it fit, there are a lot of aircraft out there where that is a big deal, we own two of them, you cannot just unscrew the whole pilots panel and screw on a different one like later aircraft. That kind of work IMHO will require a separate approval on them. I think labor will stop a lot people dead in their tracks, where the G5s and Aspens take minimal structural mods to install. At a bare minimum I'd guess a basic G3X installed in IFR airplane labor will be double the labor for a dual G5 system.
Last edited:
To expand on what Kent said and to make it clearer for others following along...
The Century II/IIB (and other attitude based autopilots) need four things: pitch, roll, heading, course.
The G5/G3x currently only provides two: heading and course. These are the things traditionally supplied by the DG/HSI and not the AI.
I am not sure there isn't much choice with the G5. If you don't have a G5 for reversionary ADAHRS, doesn't that mean you have to keep your steam gauges for backup?
Stewartb
Final Approach
My G3X Touch has pitch and roll!
Last edited:
bnt83
Final Approach
I don't believe the standby G5 will be optional when the G3X is installed via STC for IFR ops. There are going to be a whole lot of questions surrounding possible configurations, only dealers with access to the STC approval will be able to answer many of these questions, or Garmin reps (on Beechtalk)
hindsight2020
Final Approach
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2010
- Messages
- 6,724
- Display Name
Display name:
hindsight2020
Couldn't disagree more. It has been well established on here the pent up desire to acquire experimental avionics in legacy spam cans for whom it doesn't make economic sense (insurance hull value) to install the certified equivalent. I also take exception to the notion the maintenance savings are not transformative for my hobby participation if I were legally allowed to incur more discretion in the maintenance of my arrow rather than asking mother may I to a mythical paperwork friendly AP. I do think owner maintained (what we called primary non commercial) would have absolutely cracked open the market.
The reason OEMs oppose it imo is because of the liability. Don't misunderstand what I was saying. They don't GAF about the piston market these days, they're making their margin on turbine equipment. They know the working middle class is sunk in this country on the purchasing power front, and they're not running a charity. But they want these cans gone, and allowing them to be operated under owner maintenance (aka primary non commercial) will lead to longevity by interest proxy. Again we 'll agree to disagree. To your point, the measure is dead, though I find it puzzling you don't find the reasons why that came to be disconcerting. I guess if you're dead set on certified planes its a sunk cost. To each their own I guess.
idahoflier
Pattern Altitude
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2017
- Messages
- 1,611
- Display Name
Display name:
idahoflier
Why do you say that? Not saying you're wrong, but would appreciate more info as I'm not aware of that requirement.
I wasn't planning on removing the radio. I actually have dual KX 155's but only one with a glideslope receiver so the other CDI is a KI 208. I would use the existing KI 209 for the GPS and would still have the KI 208 CDI for VOR or VOR/DME approaches.
But that's the utra-cheap option. I am leaning towards adding a G5 as an HSI at this point anyway...
Juliet Hotel
En-Route
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2018
- Messages
- 2,634
- Display Name
Display name:
Juliet Hotel
Are Tigers on the list?
Warmi
Line Up and Wait
I think the LSA model is a decent compromise - factory built planes ( greatly reduces variability ) that have to comform to certain industry defined performance standards ( you can’t just manufacture a death trap that only super humans can fly ) and is up to manufacturers to decide which avionics and other components are allowed for the plane - kind of like a factory built RV 10 ...
WannFly
Final Approach
the 10 seem awfully big for a PFD alone... are you sure it cant be PFD+MFD / display approach plates?
EDIT: from garmin's site
Multifaceted Screen Formats
Multiple screen sizes and display formats let you grow your G3X Touch suite as your needs evolve. For space-limited panels, a single 10.6” or 7” display can accommodate both PFD and MFD windows within the same unit. The 10.6” display can also include an EIS strip for additional versatility. Another option allows two 7” screens to be installed side by side and accommodate PFD, MFD and optional EIS functionality. Or you can pair a 10.6” split-screen unit with a 7” format to provide even more flexibility to lay out your preferred arrangement of PFD, MFD and optional EIS displays. And to help simplify installation, the primary display also offers the capability to have an air data computer and attitude/heading reference system module integrated on the back of the display unit.
from the AFMS:
The G3X Touch is scalable in the following configurations:
One GDU 470, 7” portrait touchscreen display, split screened providing both PFD and MFD functions.
One GDU 460, 10” touchscreen display, split screened providing both PFD and MFD functions.
Two GDU 470 7” portrait touchscreen displays, one functioning as a PFD and the other as a MFD.
One GDU 460 10” touchscreen display functioning as a PFD, and one GDU 470 7” portrait touchscreen display functioning as a MFD.
from the pic below it looks like one 10 inch will give you PFD + MFD + EIS
Last edited:
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
You'll need some sort of backup. G5 will probably be popular. Steam gauges would work. But, I don't see why you couldn't put in the Dynon D10A, Sandia, Mid-Continent, etc instead of the G5. However, the previously noted features of the G5 in terms of keeping the autopilot running and keeping an eye on the G3X, plus its low price, are going to make it pretty much a no-brainer for most people.
We need to get Trek Lawler over here.
Oh, I don't disagree at all in terms of the desire on the part of pilots to keep things cheaper. But, I think if we had an owner maintenance category like Canada, the level of participation would be less than 10%. It's a one-way street - Once your airplane is in that category, you can't take it back to normal category. That would likely significantly impact resale value.
I would LOVE to be able to do more work on my plane. I'd have certainly done the software update that I paid the avionics shop for yesterday! And I would love to be able to do the 337 paperwork and install new LED lighting. But I have a day job, and a family, and part of the reason I fly a certified airplane is that I know there are much better mechanics out there than me. The value proposition of being able to do a little maintenance just wouldn't be there if I were taking the hit on resale that I think I would be.
BUT... I don't think the OEMs have anything to do with this. The FAA is well-known for dragging their feet without anyone else's help (see BasicMed, photos on pilot certificates, etc). In addition, once a plane is 18 years old the manufacturer has no more liability for it anyway. That was the cornerstone of the GARA and is the entire reason that Cessna started building singles again in 1997, and Cirrus, Diamond, etc came into the certified market.
Which list?
The Approved Model List for the G3X Certified system does include the entire AA-5 line, including the AA-5B and AG-5B Tigers. It does NOT include the other Grumman Tiger (the F-11).
In fact, Garmin is using a Tiger as their exhibition aircraft for the certified G3X Touch at AEA and Sun-n-Fun:
The GFC 500 supported aircraft list also includes the entire AA-5 series, and you can see one (well, the GMC 507 mode controller component of it, anyway) in the picture above at the bottom of the radio stack.
Finally, the AML for the certified G5 also includes all of the AA-5s.
So, I guess I'd have to say yeah, you're on the list. So is @SixPapaCharlie. Spend away!
My only worry there is - What happens if the manufacturer goes away? No more modifications to the plane, ever?
The *single* 10" display can do PFD + MFD + EIS. From the stuff you found from Garmin:
And, that second line is the one where you have a 10" plus a 7" screen, as in the pic of the Tiger panel above. In that installation, yes, the 10" screen is ONLY A PFD, and the 7" is ONLY an MFD. I believe they did say that you could put the EIS on either screen (it's shown on the MFD above).
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Right. Emphasis on SINGLE. If you add a 7" display, the 7" becomes the MFD and you lose the MFD capability on the 10" unless it goes into reversionary mode. Look closely at the configurations you put into the edit on your previous post.
Juliet Hotel
En-Route
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2018
- Messages
- 2,634
- Display Name
Display name:
Juliet Hotel
Ah now I see it. I was looking for Grumman or American General. Never heard of True Flight Holdings.The Approved Model List for the G3X Certified system does include the entire AA-5 line, including the AA-5B and AG-5B Tigers. It does NOT include the other Grumman Tiger (the F-11).
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yeah, that was what I was looking for too. I was surprised when I didn't find it, since Garmin is showing off a Tiger with it! Then I searched for "AA-5B" and found it. I never heard of them either, but I guess they're at least the sixth owner of that particular type certificate.
WannFly
Final Approach
even that single would be awesome, reminds me of G1000 set up in the 172 I trained in...
so now I want:
single 10 inch G3X
375 for ADSB
GFC 500
35k installed is what I am guessing …. on a 60k hull
But then you'd have a TAA for the commercial. Think of the rental fees for the complex that youd be saving .35k installed is what I am guessing …. on a 60k hull
WannFly
Final Approach
I am already TAA with my current set upBut then you'd have a TAA for the commercial. Think of the rental fees for the complex that youd be saving .
. I need to find a different excuse
bnt83
Final Approach
We will see how excited everyone is once the quotes start coming out. I'm guessing much of excitement will evaporate.
That being said, it looks like a fantastic system, but daym still a lotta money.
I think for just the cost of a bare bones single 7" display and supporting equipment (no labor), you can get a dual G5 system installed. I'd bet labor will run around $6k and up for the single 7" screen and supporting equipment.
That being said, it looks like a fantastic system, but daym still a lotta money.
I think for just the cost of a bare bones single 7" display and supporting equipment (no labor), you can get a dual G5 system installed. I'd bet labor will run around $6k and up for the single 7" screen and supporting equipment.
Is there a rule of thumb for avionics installation cost? For example residential remodels labor is usually around the same as materials very roughly speaking. Just wondering if there's something similar for panel makeovers.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
I don't know that it's a rule of thumb, but I did note that the installed cost of our panel upgrade ran about 40% more than the listed retail prices of the components. So, maybe list price plus 50% would be a good rule of thumb. I don't think I included the necessary com antenna replacement and that sort of thing in the calculation, and there'll always be some of that stuff.
Juliet Hotel
En-Route
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2018
- Messages
- 2,634
- Display Name
Display name:
Juliet Hotel
An aviation hardware company whose name ends in the word holdings does not exactly instill confidence. I gotta think discussion on the retirement plan is probably a pretty short conversation when they bring in a new hire. I picture it involving the phrase 'are you high?'Yeah, that was what I was looking for too. I was surprised when I didn't find it, since Garmin is showing off a Tiger with it! Then I searched for "AA-5B" and found it. I never heard of them either, but I guess they're at least the sixth owner of that particular type certificate.
MauleSkinner
Touchdown! Greaser!
so has anyone called in a bomb threat based on the thread title?
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/02/14...rning-mistaken-for-bomb-threat-at-home-depot/
https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/02/14...rning-mistaken-for-bomb-threat-at-home-depot/
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
You have to have a working VOR receiver in the airplane to fly IFR, even if you have a WAAS GPS.
It would be pretty awkward for them to use a Tiger in the promotion material and for it not to be on the list ;-)
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
No, go back and read 91.205
“Two-way radio communication and navigation equipment suitable for the route to be flown”
N1120A
Pattern Altitude
Actually, I think I might be wrong, but not because of what you said. A WAAS GPS can be used as the sole navigator, but a non-WAAS IFR GPS equipped aircraft must have a backup VOR.
Here's what the backside of the G5/G3x/GFC500 demo looks like. Hopefully the actual installation isn't outrageously more than that...
Stephen Shore
Pre-takeoff checklist
If the G3X will work with legacy King AP's like the KFC 150 / 200, this will be a big blow to Aspen. I just installed the Aspen 1000PRO PFD along with a GTN 750 precisely because the Aspen would work with my KFC 200 and the G5 would not. I would much rather have had something like the G3X instead of the 1000 PRO.
This really does seem to be a significant move by Garmin.
PilotRPI
Line Up and Wait
That is correct. If you have a WAAS GPS, that can be the sole source for IFR navigation. Whether that is a good idea not to have a backup is up to you. For a non-waas GPS, you need to have an alternate means of navigation. This is for general aviation, there may be differences for commercial applications, and I think there are.
Chip Sylverne
Final Approach
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2006
- Messages
- 5,892
- Display Name
Display name:
Quit with the negative waves, man.
Anyone know where an install manual for the 175 can be had for download? The Garmin site just has poh and spec sheet.
murphey
Touchdown! Greaser!
Same place as the POH....look for 190-01112-10_14.pdf
182 pages and includes the AML.
Start here
https://support.garmin.com/support/manuals/searchManuals.faces?refresh=true
bnt83
Final Approach
Lol! That's not even close. Here are the experimental manuals for your viewing pleasure
887 pages --->> http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01115-01_ah.pdf
99 pages --->>http://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01051-00_C.pdf
Certified block diagram: cross out the stuff you won't have
My guess is about the same or slightly less labor to install a TXi but significantly more labor than dual G5 system (especially if the remote control of all the other junk is desired).
Last edited: