Square your base to final

eman1200

eman1200

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Bro do you even lift
I've been given this instruction before when vectored into the pattern and NOT squared up with the base leg yet, that I understand. But I was recently given this instruction as soon as I entered downwind. I wasn't even midfield yet, but perfectly parallel to the rwy and was told to square my base to final. I'm not sure I understood exactly what was being asked of me...just not to overshoot turning final?

I circled exactly where I was when given the command in this pic......


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For spacing they just wanted to make sure you kept it square and didn't turn for the numbers.
 
It wasn't a correction based on your current position, it was simply an instruction to help with spacing. Without more specific instruction (keep it tight, extend, etc) I've interpreted it as "fly a normal by-the-book pattern, please."
 
The instruction is a reminder not to turn short base or go wide. They wanted a standard downwind and enter base leg at a 45 to the end of the runway with a standard turn to final lined up on the runway...the way we were all trained but rarely do anymore because it's tedious and takes longer.
 
ah ok, thanks guys. so it's not necessarily a "do something now" instruction, more of a "here's what we expect you to do" instruction.
 
LoxaBagels said:
The instruction is a reminder not to turn short base or go wide. They wanted a standard downwind and enter base leg at a 45 to the end of the runway with a standard turn to final lined up on the runway...the way we were all trained but rarely do anymore because it's tedious and takes longer.
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got it. but the other thing that threw me off was when I contacted tower they told me 'cleared to land on a shortened runway', then just as I entered dw they gave me the square up command, so I interpreted it as they wanted me to turn base sooner than later. turns out it was actually the opposite. yikes, says this guy ----> :yikes:
 
eman1200 said:
got it. but the other thing that threw me off was when I contacted tower they told me 'cleared to land on a shortened runway', then just as I entered dw they gave me the square up command, so I interpreted it as they wanted me to turn base sooner than later. turns out it was actually the opposite. yikes, says this guy ----> :yikes:
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Usually if they clear you for short final they will say 'short final approved'....

A 'shortened runway' means the full length of the runway is not available (usually maintenance or construction going on). They want to you land and exit as short and as soon as able.

The 'square base to final' is usually given to separate traffic as much as possible...they want you to fly a standard square pattern as the diagram shows. Fly downwind until 45 to corner of runway, make square base, and fly your final as normal.

Sounds like with the shortened runway they were making pattern aircraft fly full and longer approaches.
 
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You've got it, eman. The alternative is usually phrased "Straight to the numbers," if tower needs you on the ground quicker.
 
My Downwind-base-final is very oval shaped these days.
I prefer it that way actually.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My Downwind-base-final is very oval shaped these days.
I prefer it that way actually.
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Mine nearly always is because I tend to fly a tight downwind. Lot's of people do the same, hence when they need you to not, they issue the instruction to square it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My Downwind-base-final is very oval shaped these days.
I prefer it that way actually.
Click to expand...

One reason to roll out on base, even momentarily, is for visibility purposes.

Especially in a low wing, the raised wing in a continuous turn to final keeps you blind to traffic on final for an extended period.
 
FastEddieB said:
One reason to roll out on base, even momentarily, is for visibility purposes.

Especially in a low wing, the raised wing in a continuous turn to final keeps you blind to traffic on final for an extended period.
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Hmmm...
That's pretty good food for thought
 
FastEddieB said:
One reason to roll out on base, even momentarily, is for visibility purposes.

Especially in a low wing, the raised wing in a continuous turn to final keeps you blind to traffic on final for an extended period.
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That is what I was taught.
 
eman1200 said:
I've been given this instruction before when vectored into the pattern and NOT squared up with the base leg yet, that I understand. But I was recently given this instruction as soon as I entered downwind. I wasn't even midfield yet, but perfectly parallel to the rwy and was told to square my base to final. I'm not sure I understood exactly what was being asked of me...just not to overshoot turning final?
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Given to you at the position you indicated the instruction makes no sense. My best guess it was meant for another airplane and the controller confused callsigns.
 
roncachamp said:
Given to you at the position you indicated the instruction makes no sense. My best guess it was meant for another airplane and the controller confused callsigns.
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I'm pretty confident it was for me (I have it on video and no I won't post it) but like u said, WHEN they said it confused me.
 
roncachamp said:
Given to you at the position you indicated the instruction makes no sense. My best guess it was meant for another airplane and the controller confused callsigns.
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I understood he was on downwind when he was asked to square the base to final. That seems reasonable to me. I fly a tight pattern and do not normally square anything, so getting a heads up just after turning downwind would be appropriate.. I would ease out away from the field a bit so I could fly a square pattern.
 
dell30rb said:
I understood he was on downwind when he was asked to square the base to final. That seems reasonable to me. I fly a tight pattern and do not normally square anything, so getting a heads up just after turning downwind would be appropriate.. I would ease out away from the field a bit so I could fly a square pattern.
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Yeah, base is a pretty short leg especially if you are in tight and if the tower waits until he is established on base before telling him to square the final turn, it might be too late. Best said early.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
My Downwind-base-final is very oval shaped these days.
I prefer it that way actually.
Click to expand...

A "carrier approach" as we say.
Personally I prefer it myself. I also believe it to be easier and safer (for me) to fly, since I've been doing it that way since 1964. MY first instructors were WWII Corsair pilots. They came by their bad habits honestly.
 
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Half circles downwind to final for me.
 
I tend to fly a circling carrier approach most of the time too. I like to keep the final pretty short so I can see better in the turning approach. It is a useful method when over the nose visibility is restricted.


Jim R
Collierville, TN

N7155H--1946 Piper J-3 Cub
N3368K--1946 Globe GC-1B Swift
N4WJ--1994 Van's RV-4
 
FastEddieB said:
One reason to roll out on base, even momentarily, is for visibility purposes.

Especially in a low wing, the raised wing in a continuous turn to final keeps you blind to traffic on final for an extended period.
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And along the same note, it's better to make 30 degree banks in the pattern. You are more visible to others that way. A constant bank turn from downwind to final can lead to a much shallower turn.
 
Kritchlow said:
And along the same note, it's better to make 30 degree banks in the pattern. You are more visible to others that way. A constant bank turn from downwind to final can lead to a much shallower turn.
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Agreed.

While I'm not advocating steep turns in the pattern, I don't like really shallow ones either.

It's pilots who are apprehensive of too much bank in the pattern who make me nervous. They are the ones most likely to skid turns to avoid that bank when a turn does need to be tightened. I really don't mind seeing up to 45° banks in the pattern, as long as the wings are not loaded excessively.

There are reasons for rolling out on base as a general rule. I'd list them as:

1) Predictability - it's what other pilots expect

2) The aforementioned visibility concerns

And

3) "Playing the turn to final" is a respected way to put the plane down exactly where you want it.

But pilots are an independent and ornery breed, so in spite of recommendations from the FAA and most flight instructors, some pilots will insist on "rolling their own". It's up to the rest of us to be on the lookout for unexpected maneuvers in the pattern.
 
If you fly a 45° pattern at 100 kts basically all you have time for is a quick wing wag to look up final. Considering I was just looking up final for traffic before my turn, the extra risk involved in not flying a square base is minimal. If I have to fly a bomber pattern for some reason, then I fly a square final.
 
necropost.

you are flying your v-tail arrow in the position below and told to enter a left base for 19, or is that an upside down 61, I don't know, followed by 'square your base to final'. soooooo, like, turn left so you're perpendicular to base, then make 90* turns from there, or turn right to intercept final? I'm leaning towards the left turn to a more perpendicular base entry. but being told enter left base, this is prob what I would have done anyways.


upload_2018-6-23_11-26-56.png
 
Yeah you'd turn from where you're currently at onto base, then square the turn to final. Usually controller needs spacing from a preceding arrival or getting room for a departure is the reason for that instruction.
 
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The most unusual request I had recently was being asked to make a circle to the right to enter into the base leg.
There was no one behind me, and they needed to bring in a plane with a sick passenger on board. They gave them a straight in. The Cub is so slow it gave them all the time they needed.
Turns out the initial joy of the discovery flight became a nightmare when the airsickness kicked in. According to the pilot, the C-172 was "awash" in puke.
It's all good. As long as I don't have to clean it up. :frown2:
 
eman1200 said:
necropost.

you are flying your v-tail arrow in the position below and told to enter a left base for 19, or is that an upside down 61, I don't know, followed by 'square your base to final'. soooooo, like, turn left so you're perpendicular to base, then make 90* turns from there, or turn right to intercept final? I'm leaning towards the left turn to a more perpendicular base entry. but being told enter left base, this is prob what I would have done anyways.
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I can't follow your positions I would turn right to enter a normal left base leg, although if I had a V-Tail Arrow I'd be confused too.
upload_2018-6-23_11-26-562.jpg
 
If there are parallel runways close together, it's possible the tower just wants to make sure you're lined up on the correct runway and not getting too close to the parallel runway approach.
 
eman1200 said:
I've been given this instruction before when vectored into the pattern and NOT squared up with the base leg yet, that I understand. But I was recently given this instruction as soon as I entered downwind. I wasn't even midfield yet, but perfectly parallel to the rwy and was told to square my base to final. I'm not sure I understood exactly what was being asked of me...just not to overshoot turning final?

I circled exactly where I was when given the command in this pic......


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Click to expand...

They’re telling you not to do one of them 180 turns to final. All kinds of opinions on the pros and cons of that. Anyway, they are timing things and doin a 180 instead of the good ol’ square pattern will mess with the timing. Most likely to leave room to squeeze off a departure. This ain’t the time they wanna hear ‘Tower, Mooney [insert your #], 180, slats flaps and shoulder straps, three in the green, give me the nod and I’ll hit the sod.’

EDIT: sheesh. Just saw this was an old revived post. It was about getting the ‘square’ speech while on downwind. Now it’s about entering the pattern from out yonder into the base leg.
 
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eman1200 said:
necropost.

you are flying your v-tail arrow in the position below and told to enter a left base for 19, or is that an upside down 61, I don't know, followed by 'square your base to final'. soooooo, like, turn left so you're perpendicular to base, then make 90* turns from there, or turn right to intercept final? I'm leaning towards the left turn to a more perpendicular base entry. but being told enter left base, this is prob what I would have done anyways.


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Nah. Very unlikely they would be expecting you to do that turn left thing way out yonder so as to set yourself up to be on a base leg way out there. Just pointing yourself toward a point where you could make a right turn into ‘base’ would be fine
 
There’s somebody with one huge compound bow over there to the northeast. I recommend not flying to that airport while he’s shooting at it @eman1200.
 
mscard88 said:
Yeah you'd turn from where you're currently at onto base, then square the turn to final. Usually controller needs spacing from a preceding arrival is the reason for that instruction.
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This. If they tell you to square your base, it’s because they need increase the separation.
 
Pilawt said:
For math majors, that's what ATC says when they want you to fly 'a' + 'b', not 'c'. :cool:

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but to me it's a little redundant....from where I was, telling me to enter a left base meant I had to square up. I understand the spacing thing, but he didn't clear me to land (direct to the #s), he instructed to enter left base.


midlifeflyer said:
I can't follow your positions I would turn right to enter a normal left base leg, although if I had a V-Tail Arrow I'd be confused too...
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yes, you've proven over and over you're incapable of anyone's thought process other than your own.

upload_2018-6-23_16-47-51.png

also if you couldn't figure out, drawing is not to scale.
 
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