A good plane. Bad broker. My first experience trying to buy a plane.

Rebel Lord

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Rebel Lord
This is a recap of what happend this past few days seriously looking to buy a plane.

We talked on the phone with the broker and arranged a meeting, so we drove 3 hours from north Houston to Dallas. It was me my dad and my brother. We got in late and got a hotel so the next day we drove to the airport and met with a mechanic I had been emailing with. We met at the restaurant at the field and talked about what we wanted and this is the first time we got a clue about the broker. The way the mechanic described the Broker (who I will name him and his company shortly) I started to have a feeling. So we left the mechanic and drove over to the FBO to meet the Broker.

The Brokers name is David Dick of metroplex aviation, little did I know he would live up to his last name. Our first meeting went ok, it was me and my dad and him. He seemed nice and we made small talk and walked over to the hanger and pulled the plane out. The plane was beautiful, I kept my poker face on and examined the plane and it did indeed look nice, we popped off a few inspection plates and everything looked good inside and out. Mr Dick went of his sales pitch saying there was no corrosion anywhere and this was the finest archer ever. He also said he would not take anything but the asking price, which was 84,500!

We flew the plane and everything looked good. We went back over to the FBO to look over the log books and talk while the mechanic we first talked to was on his way. We made small talk with Mr. Dick and we explained we were very new at this and might need some help figuring things out. He went on about how he had 3 people already looking at the airplane and it was going to be gone if we didn't get it. The mechanic took a few minutes to come over so we made some more small talk about the industry and how he knew everything about the business. and this is we're things got weird, he braggingly told us a story about how he almost got fired from being a car salesmen becuae a woman was asking him the prices of some cars and he told us he told the woman "Go check your own f**king prices" we just kind of smiled and let him keep talking. So that was our first heads up something was wrong.

The mechanic came and he went over and he checked the plane over. He said everything in general looked good but... there was corrosion all around the battery and all down the tail were all the paint had bubbled up and flaked off, and the wheels were worn out. On the engine there was a few bolts that were not the right kind and some fasteners missing and a few other things i don't remember.

So we thank and paid the mechanic and we turn around and Mr. Dick was in his car and we shook hands and he left. So we shut up the hanger and left.


Fast forward to the next day, we spend the night at my grandmas house and we were trying to do some research on the things that needed to be done on the airplane before we made our offer, the mechanic was putting together a list for us of things he noticed on the airplane that needed to be worked on.

This is were things went wrong, and I want to say we did NOTHING WRONG in this entire thing. Me and my dad want to get the ball rolling on this so we call Mr. Dick to give him our first offer. My dad did all the talking and I just listened, my dad mentioned several of the things the mechanic saw, and my dad gave our first FIRST offer. I want to stress that we are very new to this and my dad made sure to tell him that we maybe off the mark with our first offer but atleast the ball would be rolling.

My dads first offer was 75k and the words had barely left his mouth when this so called "professional" LOST HIS FREAKING MIND. It wasn't even on speaker and this guy in his late 60s was calling my dad a mother f**ker and how we "wasted 4 total hours of his f**king time"...

in all this my Dad never even raised his voice... he tried to tell him we maybe off but let's have a conversation on this, but David
just screamed over him and now my dad was fed up, in a firm tone my dad
Told him to settle down then he just hung up on us.

I could hardly believe that he talked to us this way EVEN IF WE WERE OFF ON THE PRICE. Me and my dad took off work to drive up here for 2 days and we were very serious buyers, we had cash in the bank ready to go and he cursed and yelled over a few hours of his time JUST BECAUSE OF OUR FIRST OFFER, I thought this was a negotiation! Looking back I realize that this guy was a condescending pr!ck from the start. Me and my dad work together and we have to deal with customers and we would never dream to treat even someone who was rude to us with such contempt.

My dad tried to call him back right after and left a voice mail when he would not pick up. My dad told his exactly what I just said about customer service and that all we wanted was to start talking about a price NOT GET BERATED AND CURESED OUT.

So I was really bummed out and also ****ed about this. We got on the road immediately because by this point I knew the entire trip was a bust. I sent a final email to the mechanic (who was really awesome and nice and will definitely use again) a email telling him we appreciated his help and that the deal went south because of the Mr Dicks distain for customers. To my surprise the mechanic called me minutes later wanting to know what happend, so we explained to him what did happen and here's what he said "I'm not surprised he did that" because he knew he had an attitude and he agreed that he was WAY out of line.


So that's it. That's our first ever experience working with a broker and our first serious effort to get a plane.

[RANT_OFF/]
 
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Sorry to hear about your experience, he does live up to his name. Keep looking, I had a lot of a frustrating experience too, none close to what u went thru though, but eventually u will find the right one. This wasn't meant to happen and may be all for good

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Sorry to hear about your experience, he does live up to his name. Keep looking, I had a lot of a frustrating experience too, none close to what u went thru though, but eventually u will find the right one. This wasn't meant to happen and may be all for good

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And even though the plane was nice this is the outlook im taking, I got to see my grandma... and it was a learning experience, and that even if you do everything right things can still go wrong. Im moving on to the next opportunity
 
Sorry you had a bad first experience. Fortunately most brokers aren't like that. Hope you find another good bird soon!
 
Sorry to read that Mr. Dick was a prick. No reason to curse anyone out, and an offer is an offer.

But in the end, he lied about the plane as your mechanic clearly indicated the corrosion, tires, and other work the plane would need (not to mention work that was not as easily found.) And considering it's YOUR hard earned money, HE has to EARN the right to take it. Not the other way around. His approach isn't going to get him very far.

For what it's worth, I didn't get yelled at, but I got the cold shoulder on my first attempt at purchasing an aircraft. It's somewhere on these forums. But I took into account the maintenance items, the remaining life of the airframe and engine, and the fact that it was leased to a flight school to use as a trainer and it was not well taken care of. With all this in mind, I made an offer that wasn't even responded to. They stopped responding to emails and phone calls. At first I was taken aback, but it turned out to be the best thing to ever happen to me. I found another airplane (coincidentally not too far away) and the plane was owned by a wonderful couple who couldn't fly anymore. It needed work like the first plane, but I got that plane for a considerable sum cheaper than the first plane. And I'm STILL on friendly, speaking terms with the prior owners. Win, win.

Hang in there... the right plane will come along and (hopefully) at a better price!
 
Who was the broker representing? If the seller, then you need to hire your own broker to represent you as the buyer if this is a first time purchase and you don't know the ropes. I deal with real estate agents all day long and I love mind f**king them and turning them in to babbling idiots when they try to pull the "holier than thou" attitude with me. I'm almost tempted to ask you for the phone number of the broker so I can call him up and have me some fun. :eek:
 
Be interesting to hear what the owner of the plane thinks about how Mr Dick, the broker he/she retained, handled this potential sale.

Cheers
 
Who was the broker representing? If the seller, then you need to hire your own broker to represent you as the buyer if this is a first time purchase and you don't know the ropes. I deal with real estate agents all day long and I love mind f**king them and turning them in to babbling idiots when they try to pull the "holier than thou" attitude with me. I'm almost tempted to ask you for the phone number of the broker so I can call him up and have me some fun. :eek:
Read his full post... again

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Who was the broker representing? If the seller, then you need to hire your own broker to represent you as the buyer if this is a first time purchase and you don't know the ropes. I deal with real estate agents all day long and I love mind f**king them and turning them in to babbling idiots when they try to pull the "holier than thou" attitude with me. I'm almost tempted to ask you for the phone number of the broker so I can call him up and have me some fun. :eek:

The broker was representing the seller and as I said his name Is David Dick and his company is Metroplex aviation
 
Be interesting to hear what the owner of the plane thinks about how Mr Dick, the broker he/she retained, handled this potential sale.

Cheers

Trust me we are trying to get the actual owners email and number to tell them how their broker is treating buyers
 
The broker was representing the seller and as I said his name Is David Dick and his company is Metroplex aviation
Sorry, I just skimmed through your post and didn't catch that. Post the exact plane you're looking at so I have some ammo to work with so I can screw with this guy. I guarantee it, I'll mind f**k him so bad I'll have him waiting all day long to pick me up from the local airport, and then I'll tell him that I found another plane in the area and decided to buy that one. :cool:
 
there was corrosion all around the battery and all down the tail were all the paint had bubbled up and flaked off

I'm sure you don't want to deal with Dick either way but just an FYI my Archer had the same thing when I got it, the corrosion was centered around a drain that IIRC comes off the battery box and exits under the tail section just behind the cargo door and underneath the aircraft. I had that section cleaned up and re-painted at the first annual, it wasn't an expensive fix in airplane terms, just a couple hundred $ I think (I don't recall the exact amount offhand). Just a note for you if you see that again.
 
I'm almost tempted to ask you for the phone number of the broker so I can call him up and have me some fun. :eek:

Do it! :) :thumbs up: emoticon that doesn't exist on this forum.

I guarantee it, I'll mind f**k him so bad I'll have him waiting all day long to pick me up from the local airport, and then I'll tell him that I found another plane in the area and decided to buy that one. :cool:

Please do! Let us know how it goes! (same aforementioned thumbs up emoticon) :p
 
Do it! :) :thumbs up: emoticon that doesn't exist on this forum.



Please do! Let us know how it goes! (same aforementioned thumbs up emoticon) :p

You mean this one?? :thumbsup:
 
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. There are all types of people out there, and some can be real jerks. This is one good reason not to fall in love with a plane until after the purchase is complete.

When my wife and I decided to buy our first plane, I really wanted a Cessna 185. I found one nearby and flew over to take a look. Looked it over pretty carefully and took a ride with the broker. No obvious issues, so I arranged financing, got an insurance quote, and agreed to a price with the broker. Then I arranged for a trusted mechanic (recommended by a trusted friend) to meet me to do a prebuy. He found corrosion, missing rivets, landing gear issues, and broken ribs in the horizontal stabilizer. His estimate was $40,000 to get the plane in airworthy shape. Since that was my budget for planned avionics upgrades, needless to say it was a deal breaker. The seller wouldn't come down on the price, so I walked. The plane sold a few weeks later....

Then I found the Viking in TX, and I went through a similar process. I negotiated a price, spoke to the plane's existing long-time mechanic, and I got pre-approval for financing and insurance. I also paid to have a well known Viking mechanic from Southern California meet me in TX for a pre-buy and test flight. Everything checked out, and we made the deal. I was lucky in that it was only the second plane I considered, but I was prepared to continue the search as long as necessary.

Bottom line: continue to do the due dilligence, get agreement on price before doing the pre-buy and trip to see the plane, make the price contingent on the plane passing your pre-buy, and be ready to walk away if the plane is not as advertised. It helps your negotiating position if you can show that you have financing and insurance arranged a head of time because it shows you're serious, but do get agreement on a price before investing the time and expense into a pre-buy. Make sure you select the pre-buy mechanic and stay away from the seller's recommendation.

Despite the fact that my Viking was being maintained by one of the three well known Viking shops in the US, I still wanted to have my own expert who had no connection to the plane take a look at it.

And don't fall in love prior to the purchase! There are lots of good planes out there; it just takes some time to find the right one. Also, be willing to look outside of your close geographical area. Most people I know who have bought a plane, bought it from somewhere farther away. Getting it home can be a great adventure and a great way to get really well acquainted with your new baby.


One other thing, don't be wedded to only one type of plane. Likely there are several out there which can fulfill your mission. Be willing to cast a broader net.



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eh I have quite a few comments I could make, but I'll just say sorry u had such a bad experience.
 
Do you remember when I asked whether you had an agreement about the price in place ?
 
Trust me we are trying to get the actual owners email and number to tell them how their broker is treating buyers

Since you've walked, probably just easier to send a letter (signature required if you like) to the registration address for the aircraft under the owner's name or the business name it's registered under. Won't matter that it takes a few days to get there.
 
Should have kicked him in the dick. If it is anything like car sales there are a ton of slimy sales guys out there.

I'm sure you'll get some jerks on here too saying he handled himself in a fine manner lollll
 
Also, make sure to use a good escrow service and have a reputable Title company do a thorough title search on the plane. Make sure there aren't any title issues or outstanding liens on the plane. It's a little more of a hassle, but with a large purchase like an airplane, you really want to make sure you do your due dilligence.

Buying a plane is an extremely exciting thing to do, but you want to go into it well prepared.

That said, I still am in occasional contact with the person who sold me my plane. Great guy, and because we both negotiated and handled the sale in a professional manner, it as a win-win for both of us. He did tell me that he wants the plane back now and has asked me to give him first rights if I ever want to sell it. Small chance of that!


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He did tell me that he wants the plane back now and has asked me to give him first rights if I ever want to sell it. Small chance of that!

That's something that if you're a gentleman, you put in writing somewhere that your Personal Representative or Trustee for your Estate will be sure to find, if something untoward happens to you. Probably don't need to spend the money to update the Will, but at least put it in the file.
 
Trust me we are trying to get the actual owners email and number to tell them how their broker is treating buyers

Why bother? Move on and find a better deal. A good reason to get agreement on price much earlier in the process, however before you waste too much time and energy.

If you do want to pursue contacting the owner, you are aware that you can look up the registration and ownership info on www.faa.gov?


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Trust me we are trying to get the actual owners email and number to tell them how their broker is treating buyers
I guess my google-fu is a bit better than most tonight....

Looking up just the N-number found it registered to Farawaypoints, LLC, along with the address in Enid, OK. Then looking for the address found Claudell Thomas and a phone number. See the image.

Call him up and have a conversation. Tell him you are ready to purchase and can send over a written offer and buy/sell agreement in quick order. Maybe he will sell to you and tell the guy you met how to find the local body of water and provide jumping instructions.


IMG_0247.PNG
 
Do you remember when I asked whether you had an agreement about the price in place ?

This! Do the price negotiation first before pre-buy, first look, etc. Get your insurance approval and pre-approval for any financing done first also. And make the agreed upon price contingent upon passing the pre-buy. Also talk about what effect on the price will be of any items that could be found in the pre-buy.

Always use a mechanic you trust and never use the mechanic who has been maintaining the plane.


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@Rebel Lord get a buyer's broker, that will save you a ton of hassle. get Keith Hansen from https://virtualairplanebroker.com/ . awesome guy, doing this forever and will help you a lot. his fees will pay for itself. trust me, I went thru the process just over a month ago. he might already have something in hand or he has some creative ideas that he mentioned when I was looking. luckily I sent him the one that I had initially passed because of damage history and didn't even dig into the books.
 
That's something that if you're a gentleman, you put in writing somewhere that your Personal Representative or Trustee for your Estate will be sure to find, if something untoward happens to you. Probably don't need to spend the money to update the Will, but at least put it in the file.

Interesting idea, and I'll certainly consider that. I'd rather the plane go to my son, however. Now I just need to get my son interested in finishing up getting his license...


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Trust me we are trying to get the actual owners email and number to tell them how their broker is treating buyers
That's easy to do.. Look up the N number online, you'll at least get teh name and then some searching will find the rest.
 
my thoughts, and they are worth exactly what you paid for them. but i have bought and sold a few airplanes in my day. when someone tells me they will not take one penny less i usually walk right then and there unless i know its a great price even with some work needed. in this case, as a few have said, that price was not a great price, your dad was more in the ballpark than the broker. I have told a few sellers that I would not even make an offer "because I know I will offend you" told them thank you, and if you re-think that price here is my number. I have dealt with people that were like him, one I did give him full price and deal with his crap, because it was a good price and it was just the aircraft I wanted, turned out to be a great plane and a good deal but it was a real pain in the ???? to make the deal. keep looking, archers are everywhere and a good deal on a good aircraft will come around.

bob
 
The plane was overpriced to begin with so you're lucky that Professor Dick chased you away.

Perhaps you'll also look beyond the state border for a plane. (also previous advice)

Plan on blowing a couple other weekends looking at planes before the stars align and you become a happy owner. Then you can look back and laugh at these trials while enjoying "the right bird"

It will happen!
 
I can safely say, after buying a plane on my own, I'm absolutely hiring a broker for the next time as a buyer.

And the other thing that others have mentioned, never get attached to a plane until it's actually yours, and even then it's just a plane. I didn't share any photos or details about mine with friends/family until the purchase was done, I didn't want to get attached when the deal inevitably went south.

Buying a plane is a lot like landing a plane, don't try and salvage it, go around and try again.
 
I bought a Cherokee,,,, It had ,prop strike, light hail, bad paint...
I paid too much,,,, but it was cheap!!
The seller would NOT dicker,,,,,
Maybe I could of walked to try for a few $$$$ less,,,,,,
but I just wanted to be done....
 
Do you remember when I asked whether you had an agreement about the price in place ?
Irrelevant. I've done airplane sales both ways (price agreed in advance and price negotiated after the prebuy).

Not having an agreed price before the prebuy is no excuse for the broker to behave that way.
 
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