Yes that was it. Landed at Sterling on the way back too.
PPL solo X-country... am I allowed to plan my own route?
- Thread starter azblackbird
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azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
I've never run out of fuel in anything in my entire life. It all reverts back to proper planning. I regularly read all the NTSB reports and am amazed at some of the stupid s**t pilots do when flying airplanes. One of my bosses I worked for when I was 16 years old took me up in his 150. We flew from Ft. Morgan to Greeley, ran out of fuel and he had to put it down in a field. Bent his nose gear up big time. Had to catch a ride into town from a farmer. Since then... anytime I fly with anybody I visually verify the fuel level (preferably full) or I don't get into the plane.
The fun will come post checkride and you can do as you wish after that point. For now, you're under the reign of the CFI who will jurisdict what you can and cannot do. You also have to understand that you have zero experience. What you imagine in your head and what actually takes place is two different things, unfortunately.
50nm doesn't seem like a lot, but it's more than enough for a primary student.
50nm doesn't seem like a lot, but it's more than enough for a primary student.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
One of our pipe supply yards was right next to the Sterling Airport. Could barely get any work done as I was always gawking when a plane took off or landed.
gsengle
Pattern Altitude
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Gsengle
That's what you don't get. You run out of fuel because a fog rolls in over your destination or you get lost or the runway gets closed and you have to divert and and and... So many curve balls in flying. It's not all just poor planning...
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This. A reality check is in store.
Flying is one of the most rewarding things I've ever learned to do and I believe it will be for you too OP. It's one thing that will whip you back into shape really quick, so never lose respect for it.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
Actually I've got a little experience, just none of it was loggable. A good friend of my boss when I was working in the oil patch had a T210 and a 421 and would regularly fly us back and forth from our job sites. I suppose I can talk about it on the board here since he's passed and doesn't have to worry about any FAA guys snooping into his business. Sad part is the guy went from a T210 to a 421 to a Commander then onto a LearJet and then dies in a head on with a semi on a county road not far out of Kimball, NE.
As a CFI, I would take a pass on you as a student. You already have it in your head of how things should be. I can see you exceeding limitations and end of in a situation that might not end well.
My students are under my certification. Something happens, it falls on me. If I see risky habits or tendencies that are potentially dangerous, I try to correct them or tell them to find a new CFI.
My students are under my certification. Something happens, it falls on me. If I see risky habits or tendencies that are potentially dangerous, I try to correct them or tell them to find a new CFI.
Sorry to hear that!
Sounds like he was a well accomplished fellow.What I mean by experience is PIC flight time. The CFI will most certainly teach you many things, but true experience doesn't come until you're out on your own and have a better grasp of what's involved with flying an airplane.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
Isn't that why you plan your alternates with reserves and stay on top of the weather and stay in communication with TRACON so you don't ever get yourself into those types of situations?
NoHeat
En-Route
My instructor specified the same route for all students.
I felt like taking a break by going into the FBO at each airport. At one FBO, when I told a lady what I was doing, she insisted that she sign my logbook to prove I was there.
She said the FAA wouldn't believe me without a signature at each airport. My instructor had not told me of this requirement, and for good reason -- it isn't true. But some people seem to believe it.
I felt like taking a break by going into the FBO at each airport. At one FBO, when I told a lady what I was doing, she insisted that she sign my logbook to prove I was there.
She said the FAA wouldn't believe me without a signature at each airport. My instructor had not told me of this requirement, and for good reason -- it isn't true. But some people seem to believe it.
Easier said than done. Lots of times light GA aircraft cannot climb above the weather and that subject brings it's own set of challenges. Even if they could, that isn't going to prevent any fuel exhaustion event and neither will communication with ATC. It's ultimately up to the pilot.
DesertNomad
Pattern Altitude
It is vastly different than a land vehicle. I have driven across the USA on two lane roads without much plan at all. I have also flown VFR from Reno to Miami (and on to Cuba but Cuba requires IFR). They are totally different undertakings. Your CFI will not let you fly further than he is willing to drive to come get you.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
How's that? Isn't training these days supposed to be scenario based? One of my scenarios would be is that I want to plan motorcycle ride and want to check out a viable route. Another scenario is I am a gold prospector and want to survey potential ground that looks good for prospecting. Another scenario would be that I'm a businessman with clients in various cities and wish to drop off an updated part to their widget they previously purchased from me.
As a CFI if you can't develop a training syllabus based on the different scenarios I propose, then I probably wouldn't be hiring you. No hard feelings.
So one of the things you are doing is learning. One of the things you are learning is how to stack the odds in your favor. Minimizing risk is what you are doing by your planning. You don't know enough to know what you don't know. Weather and equipment are two of the things you are managing. You don't know enough about the weather and you don't know enough about the equipment. On my 1st cross country the comm 2 and GPS went away.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
Once again... proper planning. I'd never take a 172 deep into the Rockies? I know many pilots do, but I won't be one of them. Part of any risk based activity is knowing your limits and knowing your equipment's limits. I don't like pushing either!
It seems to me that you already have everything figured out.
I have to shake my head sometimes when I hear potential students or current students say, "I would never do that" or "that wouldn't happen to me." That's one of the most dangerous mentals any pilot can ever have. There's a big reality check that's in store for you my friend. I wish you luck.
WannFly
Final Approach
where i live, its 6 months winter and blizzard is quite common. i drive all over in that situation, even in extreme whiteout conditions, but i am well prepared if i have to stay in the car for a week, i can. if i have to walk 10 miles to find a town, i can and i am well prepared for it. i have also driven to all over the country in winter via US 2 and mountains.
but i wont even think about flying in that weather. but again, i am not as brave as you to compare driving / riding a bike to flying a single engine, no FIKI plain with zero experience and fly 1000 miles. but thats just me. more power to you, send lots of pics of your 1500 mile solo xc
but i wont even think about flying in that weather. but again, i am not as brave as you to compare driving / riding a bike to flying a single engine, no FIKI plain with zero experience and fly 1000 miles. but thats just me. more power to you, send lots of pics of your 1500 mile solo xc
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
My God! No GPS! No comm! How the hell did you ever find your way home and tell them you wanted to land? (just kidding with you) I will be taking my training in a plane with steam gages. I like doing things the old school way like we used to do 30 years ago before GPS was commercially available. Not that I will never carry one as a backup, but for my initial training I want to get back to basics. I'll have plenty of time to become a push button pilot.
What I highlighted in red is where you nailed it! I couldn't agree more.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
Who ever said I know everything? I said I have a little experience that's all. In fact I've learned quite a bit since I've been reading many of the threads on this board. Maybe you can clue me on on something. What's all the brouhaha on AOA and chutes?
Wonthappentomeimtosmart-eyetus
Machoism or what ever you want to call it. Your dangerous OP.
It's comical you relate motorcycle cross countries to flying cross country. Especially since you haven't even done a solo cross country yet.
You can't just pull a airplane over to the side of the road when something isn't right and check yourself into the local best western.
I'm betting OP has not even taken the ppl test or soloed.
Machoism or what ever you want to call it. Your dangerous OP.
It's comical you relate motorcycle cross countries to flying cross country. Especially since you haven't even done a solo cross country yet.
You can't just pull a airplane over to the side of the road when something isn't right and check yourself into the local best western.
I'm betting OP has not even taken the ppl test or soloed.
I did my training in a plane with steam gauges... Oh and I had a back up GPS and radio. But I also knew the country side like the back of my hand. The complexity of planning a 1500 mile trip vs a 300 mile trip is about 3x times. Your weather window has to be better longer, you could have to deal with mountain waves that you would not on a shorter trip. Your fuel management and oil management come into play. Your human performance factors come into play such that you are making less quality decisions based on limited knowledge.
rk911
Cleared for Takeoff
yes!
JCranford
En-Route
Isn't it called a "cross country" for a reason? WTF do they expect a guy to do? Stay within walking distance of his home base? I thought planes were meant for flying places.
You're getting well ahead of yourself here. I'm willing to bet your first motorcycle ride wasn't a multi-state adventure. It was likely around the neighborhood. 'They' expect a guy to get some actual training, maybe even a pilot's license before turning him loose on a thousand mile trip. You sound like you might already know all there is to know about flying.
Kinda feel sorry for your CFI
JCranford
En-Route
You. You've all but been saying that since your first post.
Hank S
En-Route
Without reading 60+ replies, my CFI encouraged me to plot my own course. I was discouraged from planning to go across a MOA, as that would require replanning if it went active. So I didn't make it to the scenic lakeside airport. There was much discussion of possible airports, distances, etc. They were all places I had never been before, since that's how I planned to fly when I was finished (and have done a lot of that).
In the end, it was fun and gave me enough XC time to combine with the dual, short and night XCs to complete the required XC time. It would be bad to end up 30 minutes short, you can't take an XC flight that short in a Skyhawk . . . .
In the end, it was fun and gave me enough XC time to combine with the dual, short and night XCs to complete the required XC time. It would be bad to end up 30 minutes short, you can't take an XC flight that short in a Skyhawk . . . .
abqtj
Pre-takeoff checklist
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
According to all of the FAA stuff I've been reading lately, it seems their real big on scenario based training which allows the students more leeway in making more planning decisions on their own and relating it to the type of flying they plan on doing. I'll definitely be looking for a CFI who is proficient in that type of training. Just makes more sense to me.
Mason
En-Route
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Another scenario would be that I'm a businessman with clients in various cities and wish to drop off an updated part to their widget they previously purchased from me.
.
Ask your CFI about carrying cargo for compensation or hire.
gsengle
Pattern Altitude
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Gsengle
All CFIs will plan the trip with you and give you leeway. Zero of em will let you go 1000nm afield.
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azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
Geez... just because I want to stretch my legs and fly a X-country that's a little more than 50 miles all of a sudden I have a hazardous attitude.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
Yea, I'm beginning to see that. No biggie, I'll put something together that's not so many miles and will still be fun and scenic.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
I don't plan on getting a commercial and carrying cargo or passengers for hire. A private certificate is all I need for the type of business I'm engaged in. Already cleared it with an aviation attorney and my accountant just to make sure.
I'll take a slightly different tack from the rest of the gang here. A 1500nm XC is certainly out of the ordinary and not recommended for most people. Whether you are extraordinary is between you and your CFI. However, keep in mind that what happens on that XC is on your CFI's ticket and it might be pretty hard to find a CFI willing to expose himself/herself to that much risk.
On the other hand, you need 50 hours XC anyway before you can get your instrument rating and this kind of trip would count towards that.
On the other hand, you need 50 hours XC anyway before you can get your instrument rating and this kind of trip would count towards that.
Azblackbird.
Accidents happen because of several mistakes. Some call it a chain of failures that link together.
You are coming across as a CEO that has money and thinks nothing bad will happen because you have planned everything out since you have so much experience in planning multiple cross countries on a motorcycle.
If you continue down your path, you will be a NTSB report.
You have a serious case of igottagethereeyetus brewing.
Accidents happen because of several mistakes. Some call it a chain of failures that link together.
You are coming across as a CEO that has money and thinks nothing bad will happen because you have planned everything out since you have so much experience in planning multiple cross countries on a motorcycle.
If you continue down your path, you will be a NTSB report.
You have a serious case of igottagethereeyetus brewing.
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
That's kinda the idea. Banking the hours. If I'm going for my PPL and instrument and doing X-countries I might as well extend them out from the norms and make them fun. I didn't know I'd catch so much flack from some of the people here for just wanting to having a little fun and flying for a day.
CrimsonFlyer
Pre-Flight
I've just finished my cross country requirements and am preparing for the checkride. Folks here are correct. Your CFI won't take any unnecessary liability and you shouldn't be too ambitious. I fly in congested airspace and between flying the plane, navigating, recalculating time and distance, avoiding traffic, switching ATC every few minutes, running checklists, looking for potential landing spots, thinking of the next several steps, etc. I am mentally exhausted after a 2-2.5 hour flight. No need to take unnecessary risks. And don't ever think that you're infallible, that you would never make those stupid mistakes. I know that just as weather or my plane can go south, I myself can easily make mistakes at any time. The weakest link in the system is me, is the human factor. As soon as we become too confident, we pay the price. I think you know that. Your posts just show the kind of confidence that make us cringe.
(I also ride motorcycles, always wear full gear, and always think cagers--and myself--are out there to kill me.)
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(I also ride motorcycles, always wear full gear, and always think cagers--and myself--are out there to kill me.)
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azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
LOL... let me get this straight. Just because I want to do a 1500 mile loop for some of my X-countries, I'm being unsafe and am destined to become an NTSB statistic. How about we look at it this way... all I would really be doing is thirty $100 hamburger runs in a day rather than in a year. Are my odds better now?
azblackbird
Pattern Altitude
Flying (just as anything else deemed risky by the PC crowd) is all about knowing your limits. If my CFI thinks I'm ready, and if I think I'm ready, then I don't really see what the big deal is. It's not like I would be flying to NY or anything. Heck, I'd even settle for doing a 1500 mile loop and just stay in the state of AZ. I could easily do that just as well. That way if something s**t the bed it would be no more than a few hours drive for a mechanic or CFI to come rescue me or the plane.