WTF has happened to my Country

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Chip Sylverne said:
"Whites have no idea what it's like to be black in America", and
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None of us really knows other's experiences. There are plenty of population groups that I can't easily identify with. But, if we live towards the same standard and agree on principles, the differences matter little. But, when we highlight our grievances and differences, and make those our identity, the disparities will separate us. Which, if history is any guide, ultimately empowers the authorities that some here resent.
 
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The answer to the question in the title is simple. We have become a polarized country (world actually) in which the only views are extreme, uncompromising ones. Anyone who does not agree with us is an enemy. No room for discussion, no room for compromise. I'm 100% right and you are 100% wrong.

Look at how heated and accusatory some of the arguments about things as inconsequential as pilot technique get right on this forum. Just a milder version of the same thing.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The answer to the question in the title is simple. We have become a polarized country (world actually) in which the only views are extreme, uncompromising ones. Anyone who does not agree with us is an enemy. No room for discussion, no room for compromise. I'm 100% right and you are 100% wrong.

Look at how heated and accusatory some of the arguments about things as inconsequential as pilot technique get right on this forum. Just a milder version of the same thing.
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You could not be more wrong!
And are now forever my sworn enemy.
 
Cooter143 said:
None of us really knows other's experiences. There are plenty of population groups that I can't easily identify with. But, if we live towards the same standard and agree on principles, the differences matter little. But, when we highlight our grievances and differences, and make those our identity, the disparities will separate us. Which, if history is any guide, ultimately empowers the authorities that some here resent.
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Grievances and differences are required to be highlighted and discussed in a democracy if they are issues in some Americans not receiving equal protection under law.
Unfortunately, in our political lives we've forgotten how to discuss. We seemed to be most comfortable wallowing in righteous indignance.
 
I wonder if all the moderators who are participating in this hyper-political, incendiary and off-topic discussion will send each other warning letters before closing the thread?
 
Jay Honeck said:
I wonder if all the moderators who are participating in this hyper-political, incendiary and off-topic discussion will send each other warning letters before closing the thread?
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Nah, they leave that to Voldemort. His userid is T**W******.
 
In the words of the great Philosopher Rodney King, "can we all get along"
:)
 
Jay Honeck said:
I wonder if all the moderators who are participating in this hyper-political, incendiary and off-topic discussion will send each other warning letters before closing the thread?
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And what is the topic?
 
tawood said:
He told you this? These were his words? Was it the same cop when you were in the 'vette?

I'm sure I can find a wealthy person that could tell the same story, reversed, and how because they are wealthy, the cop felt they could "afford" the ticket, while letting the poor go free...
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You're not actually trying to tell me that your station in society doesn't effect your interaction with the government's enforcers?
 
Cooter143 said:
I don't really understand your post. Are the race baiters also a product of their heritage and education? Are they somehow exempted from society? It seems on one had you're saying it's not society's fault, but on the other we need to teach and shape the next generation to correct our problems. Which incidentally would be changing the society. I'm just trying to see what your main point was.
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You must understand each individual has their own heritage, that is why we look like we do, and each has learned their own education. that is what makes us an individual. when you have learned "race vs race" this is what you get race vs race, and person vs person.
 
My question today is a bit different, and will probably lead to blocking this thread. - I hope not.

Every time corruption is discovered in the administration one of these event occurs to divert our attention, WHY?
 
Very simple: This is a gun crazy country. Throw in different groups of people who don't like each other and then add dudes carrying weapons, cops getting scared and shooting them first (sometimes prematurely), and then other dudes shooting the cops. The central issue is GUNS but there is no point in talking any sense to anybody born in this country who has been indoctrinated that this is normal. This is your religion.

So deal with the effects of it and stop complaining.

:p
 
KFD said:
Very simple: This is a gun crazy country. Throw in different groups of people who don't like each other and then add dudes carrying weapons, cops getting scared and shooting them first (sometimes prematurely), and then other dudes shooting the cops. The central issue is GUNS but there is no point in talking any sense to anybody born in this country who has been indoctrinated that this is normal. This is your religion.

So deal with the effects of it and stop complaining.

:p
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Lol, you're funny

You're blaming the tool, not the person, do you blame a pair or wire cutters and a soldiering iron on a bombing?

It's what's in the hearts of men that's the issue.

Plenty of countries where guns are illegal where you get tons of shootings, heck the CA shooter was case and point that "gun control" doesn't work.

It's easy to blame a gun and pass a law, but it doesn't address the real problem.
 
Like I said its a religion around here.

"It's not the gun, it's the person"

Well guess what, geniuses, there are a lot of bad people out there. You give them guns. Now they can kill you.

Like most religions it is not worth arguing with you zealots. Enjoy what you have sowed.
 
KFD said:
Like I said its a religion around here.

"It's not the gun, it's the person"

Well guess what, geniuses, there are a lot of bad people out there. You give them guns. Now they can kill you.

Like most religions it is not worth arguing with you zealots. Enjoy what you have sowed.
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Then please see your way out, this has been, for the most part, a pretty good conversation.
 
I just found the ignore button, sweet.
 
I would suggest that us in the US. (quite obviously there are Canadians among us)
Talk to the officers we see/meet in our day to day in a positive way,Just tell em hello if you are nervous.
seriously it can only help to encourage them in some way.
 
KFD said:
Like I said its a religion around here.

"It's not the gun, it's the person"

Well guess what, geniuses, there are a lot of bad people out there. You give them guns. Now they can kill you.

Like most religions it is not worth arguing with you zealots. Enjoy what you have sowed.
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I don't consider myself a Zealot, so show us a way to get every gun in the US out of their owner's possession, then I'll help you. But if you miss one you subject your self to be shot by it, because we the people will be.
 
KFD said:
Very simple: This is a gun crazy country. Throw in different groups of people who don't like each other and then add dudes carrying weapons, cops getting scared and shooting them first (sometimes prematurely), and then other dudes shooting the cops. The central issue is GUNS but there is no point in talking any sense to anybody born in this country who has been indoctrinated that this is normal. This is your religion.
So deal with the effects of it and stop complaining.:p
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I too believe the government should remove guns from law abiding citizens, it makes a hazardous work place for criminals. They should know every house is unprotected so they can come take what they want.
We have plenty guns to go around, it is an American right given to you by our founding fathers, you can defend your self or not, your choice.
New gun laws are not the answer, congress has enacted gun laws since the 20s and nearly every congress has added to the list, yet we still have a problems, WHY, simply because words on paper do not stop criminals, other wise they would not be criminals. so the crime continues because the ghetto living felons know it is better to pay the price of violating the gun restriction laws, is better than being dead with out one.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
Meanwhile, our choices are between Clinton and Trump to lead us out of this mess...,
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Neither are leaders and there are other options. Don't believe the lie. Voting for either one of them is immoral and inexcusable at this point. Neither is worthy of representing a free and moral people.

Cooter143 said:
If you can't see a difference between Clinton and Trump, you misunderstand the nature of the line that divides.
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Two narcissists absolutely ripped on power. Zero real service intent. They look quite the same from here.

RJM62 said:
Am I the only one who remembers the 60's?
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Actually I hate to break this to you, but I've got white hair and I wasn't here for the 60s.

So yes. There's three generations now that never knew it, and if one isn't a student of history and details, one has no idea how bad the summer of 1968 was.

Cooter143 said:
Working as an ambulance driver doesn't give you any real insight as to the reality on the street, from a cops perspective.
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Boy there's some BS. All one has to do to know that's not true is listen to a dispatch channel pretty much any night of the week. And Ambulance folks get to roll up unarmed. I've been a public safety dispatcher. All public safety folks see stuff nobody should have to see. Regularly.

Chip Sylverne said:
Grievances and differences are required to be highlighted and discussed in a democracy if they are issues in some Americans not receiving equal protection under law.
Unfortunately, in our political lives we've forgotten how to discuss. We seemed to be most comfortable wallowing in righteous indignance.
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My generation may have been one of the last to be taught in school to discuss things.

The trend as I left was to join a "movement" and "win" every time. We moved the sports team BS into the classroom and then into society.

Watching this mess I've been happy to see some very eloquent quotes from Dr. King's speeches.

But I'm also cynical and not naive, and know his speeches wouldn't have had the impact they had without the threat of Malcolm X.

And I also know that someone from our society murdered Dr. King.

We have racial problems. And we have police problems. And we have a distinct lack of leaders who intend to serve anyone other than themselves. And we have people who will be apologists for their immoral behavior. All of them. The racists, the bad cops, and the immoral politicians.

And we've decided that right and wrong are flexible, as long as it's emotionally convenient to move the goalposts. For the rich and powerful willing to move the goalposts for us, we'll even drop the requirement that they operate within the law.

You can't build anything worth while if you can't agree on what's being built. And the partisans don't want you to agree. They want to beat your ass and they'll stop at nothing to accomplish things. Use government agencies as political weapons? Sure. Why not. It's all "for the team" rah rah, right?

Law? Constitution? Who needs those things? Just rewrite them. They're "outdated" and "quaint".

That's what they're selling. And the lie that there's only two options. Are you buying?
 
I remember the 60s well. I spent most of them in VN.
 
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the fact that the shooter was using that all time American favorite - the AR-15 - the preferred weapon of mass killers. And that's not even mentioning that Texas just recently approved "open carry" with the idea being that everyone packing and displaying a weapon would possibly deter or at least limit casualties when this kind of thing happened. Don't get me wrong, I believe a person has the right to own a gun, but an AR-15? Come-on man. What you shoveling? That rifle is a killing machine and you're the target. From a Marine Corps weapons instructor:
The fastest, I mean fastest I have seen an AR-15 shoot is 25 rounds in 2.5 seconds. That was due to the use of a slide stock, which causes the weapon’s recoil to allow the shooter to depress and press the trigger without stopping, allowing a semi-automatic weapon to fire as if it were an automatic.
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Here's the formula
1. Take a military-style assault weapon with a large capacity magazine
2. Make it easy to acquire
3. Throw in Open Carry laws
3. Add a little mental illness (which we have a lot of these days)
And guess what you got: Dallas- 5; Orlando- 49; Newtown - 26; Colorado -12; San Bernardino - 16; etc. etc. Handgun stats are even worse. This has got to stop. Year after year. It's just getting worse. "We the People" and our "Elected Representatives" are just not getting the job done. Pathetic and Spineless. It's not the America I remember. Maybe it was just a dream.
 
over50 said:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the fact that the shooter was using that all time American favorite - the AR-15 - the preferred weapon of mass killers. And that's not even mentioning that Texas just recently approved "open carry" with the idea being that everyone packing and displaying a weapon would possibly deter or at least limit casualties when this kind of thing happened. Don't get me wrong, I believe a person has the right to own a gun, but an AR-15? Come-on man. What you shoveling? That rifle is a killing machine and you're the target. From a Marine Corps weapons instructor:

Here's the formula
1. Take a military-style assault weapon with a large capacity magazine
2. Make it easy to acquire
3. Throw in Open Carry laws
3. Add a little mental illness (which we have a lot of these days)
And guess what you got: Dallas- 5; Orlando- 49; Newtown - 26; Colorado -12; San Bernardino - 16; etc. etc. Handgun stats are even worse. This has got to stop. Year after year. It's just getting worse. "We the People" and our "Elected Representatives" are just not getting the job done. Pathetic and Spineless. It's not the America I remember. Maybe it was just a dream.
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Just no.
First off, Texas has always, always had rifle open carry. It's a big hunting state, we believe in the 2nd amendment, and rifles are common. People USED to drive around with them in the back windows of their pickups regularly and this stuff wasn't happening. I drove around with my uncle around the ranch and neighboring towns like that all the time with a loaded rifle in the back, and us kids knew better than to touch them, too.
Second. Texas didn't just approve open carry meaning willy nilly. It really wasn't what we wanted - Constitutional Carry - but it was license open carry by LTC holders of modern handguns, that's it. Way more practical than a rifle which has been legal for over a hundred years and not without historical precedent and our neighboring states like Louisiana and New Mexico have had it for years before us.
Third - it was probably NOT an AR-15, but an SKS, and the guy had military training anyway and was a Reservist. What if he decided he was going to do this and waited for a chance to steal a weapon from the US Army? None of your gun control laws are going to 100% keep military folks from getting access to a gun, or going to the black market for that matter, and he could pass any background check you wanted most likely, too, so that doesn't work, either.
This ain't the America I remember, either, but it isn't the guns, or the access. That's been there. It's ideologies, division, hatred, media fomenting stuff.
 
KFD said:
Like I said its a religion around here.

"It's not the gun, it's the person"

Well guess what, geniuses, there are a lot of bad people out there. You give them guns. Now they can kill you.

Like most religions it is not worth arguing with you zealots. Enjoy what you have sowed.
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The gun debate is the perfect example of my earlier comment. Here you are, speaking as a anti gun religious zealot, talking about pro gun religious zealots. And actually coming out and saying there's no reason to discuss.

Thank you for making the point.
 
midlifeflyer said:
The gun debate is the perfect example of my earlier comment. Here you are, speaking as a anti gun religious zealot, talking about pro gun religious zealots. And actually coming out and saying there's no reason to discuss.

Thank you for making the point.
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See this is part of the problem, it's NOT a debate.

You have the RIGHT to bear arms, not a privilege, not a request, it's a RIGHT. There is no discussion, no debate, nada.

This country isn't whatever clown is POTUS at the moment, it isn't the flag, it isn't its military, it's the Constitution, THAT IS AMERICA.

If you don't like it, I'd suggest trying to gain citizenship in a country which is more inline with you PERSONAL beliefs.
 
James331 said:
See this is part of the problem, it's NOT a debate.

You have the RIGHT to bear arms, not a privilege, not a request, it's a RIGHT. There is no discussion, no debate, nada.

This country isn't whatever clown is POTUS at the moment, it isn't the flag, it isn't its military, it's the Constitution, THAT IS AMERICA.

If you don't like it, I'd suggest trying to gain citizenship in a country which is more inline with you PERSONAL beliefs.
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More proof of @midlifeflyer's point...
 
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James331 said:
So if you respect the United States and stand up for its constitution that makes you a "zealot"?
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Just FYI, this thread was reported to the MC as SZ material almost as it started. The consensus was to let it continue as it was a discussion of tragic current events. But here is the opposite side of the story. Subjects like these virtually always turn into polarizing Spin Zone type arguments. Each side is 100% right. The thread did OK for awhile, but there are always those who can't resist tossing flames on the fire.

Note that I am speaking here as myself, and this may not reflect the views of the MC in general.
 
Everskyward said:
Just FYI, this thread was reported to the MC as SZ material almost as it started. The consensus was to let it continue as it was a discussion of tragic current events. But here is the opposite side of the story. Subjects like these virtually always turn into polarizing Spin Zone type arguments. Each side is 100% right. The thread did OK for awhile, but there are always those who can't resist tossing flames on the fire.

Note that I am speaking here as myself, and this may not reflect the views of the MC in general.
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You are correct.
 
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