WTF has happened to my Country

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What is the impact of social media?
I feel like it escalates a lot of things that might not otherwise have grown as big.
"if it bleeds it leads" and we control the content of social media.

I feel like that machine has been set in motion and it is in our nature to be drawn to (and now share) things with a far wider group than ever before. Bad things and bad people will always be a part of life but I sometimes feel like this new level of visibility adds the spark to a lot of things that might not have been lit.

#ThisMakesItAMovement
 
Chip Sylverne said:
This is someone's twisted interpretation of "Watering the tree of liberty with blood". Stupid, reckless speech leads to stupid, reckless action. How are we surprised it has come to this.
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So we should limit free speech eh?

We'd still be under British rule with that idea.
 
Every one should remember,, "2% of the people create 100% of the news" and 100% of the people believe 2% of the news.

but still a very sad day in America
 
From what I can see, the media is such a driving factor for some of these events. The shooter's know their name and photo will be posted nationwide and sometimes worldwide, and mass publicity will follow.
 
Another very sad day for all of America.
 
Everskyward said:
Just because you *can* say something doesn't mean that you should.
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Don't die with your words


The biggest regrets folks have are things they DIDNT do

Things they NEVER said.
 
That is unfortunate.

I always err on the side of speaking, it's when people have to analyze what they say before they say it regarding current events and politics, that's when you know your country has REALLY gone to crap.
 
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James331 said:
That is unfortunate.

I always err on the side of speaking, it's when people have to analyze what they say before they say it regarding about current events and politics, that's when you know your country has REALLY gone to crap.
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I think sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut. Part of the problem is that many people don't know how to use restraint any more. This goes along with Bryan's comments about social media. But it happens in real life too.
 
Everskyward said:
I think sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut. Part of the problem is that many people don't know how to use restraint any more. This goes along with Bryan's comments about social media. But it happens in real life too.
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Go to somewhere like Cambodia and ask about what people think about their government, it creepy to watch the self censoring as they try to speak.

I'd sooner our streets ran red with blood than have my country become that.
 
If only we had a leader on the national scale who had background and experience -- maybe even family -- in both the black and white communities. (And would it be too much to ask for this hypothetical person to even be able to relate to both Christians and Muslims?) Such a person would be in the unique position of being able to help all see their common interests, goals, aspirations, concerns ... and to help us realize that, as Viktor Frankl said, there are only two races, the decent and the indecent. If he would only use his notoriety, power and influence to unite us as Americans we might someday be able to realize what Martin Luther King Jr. meant when he said, "Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that."

What a magnificent, historic, world-changing opportunity such a hypothetical person would have.

...

Oh, wait ...
 
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James331 said:
So we should limit free speech eh?

We'd still be under British rule with that idea.
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Please point out where I suggested there be limitations on free speech.What I said was that if you spread extreme rhetoric, think through the consequences.
It's unfortunate that people speak just because they can, rather than thinking about when they should.

Seems I recall a quote about that very thing that referred to "removing all doubt."
 
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Chip Sylverne said:
Please point out where I suggested there be limitations on free speech.What I said was that if you spread extreme rhetoric, think through the consequences.
It's unfortunate that people speak just because they can, rather than thinking about when they should.

Seems I recall a quote about that very thing that referred to "removing all doubt."
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"Extreme rhetoric" isn't that the modern definition of the old saying of someone not keeping with "the party line"?

I don't think it's "extreme" for folks to get ****ed when cops are getting a little John Wayne and trigger happy.

I'm a white guy, I have a profession the LE folks respect/depend on, drive nice cars and am well spoken, even I've seen this spectactical still in Iraq mindset some of these dudes have, it's got no place in this country, folks are clearly getting sick of it, and it actually makes police LESS SAFE.
 
James331 said:
Go to somewhere like Cambodia and ask about what people think about their government, it creepy to watch the self censoring as they try to speak.

I'd sooner our streets ran red with blood than have my country become that.
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I was just in South Africa and they have no problem expressing what they think about their government. They don't in the UK either (referencing your post about what might have been had we not fought the war for independence).
 
Everskyward said:
I was just in South Africa and they have no problem expressing what they think about their government. They don't in the UK either (referencing your post about what might have been had we not fought the war for independence).
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South Africa is a LOOOOONG ways from Cambodia.

Many places in the RSA could be mistaken for SoCal.
 
James331 said:
South Africa is a LOOOOONG ways from Cambodia.

Many places in the RSA could be mistaken for SoCal.
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So this is not the only country where people can speak freely...

And your comment about England?
 
VY1OnHI.gif
 
tawood said:
Looks like you are getting your wish.
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Not my wish.

Just sometimes when government gets too big and starts to think of the people as their subjects, you're going to get blow back.

It unfortunate, but natural for a free country to go through, especially when the government gets this large.
 
Since we're already headed off the deep end a bit with guns and censorship I'm just gonna say my piece on this.

To really wrap one's head around these events I think you need to start with a concept that we as pilots should be very familiar with. The typical human being is well meaning, relatively honest, is generally trying their best, and is in the end flawed and prone to error.

I do not believe and find it simply impossible to believe the police typically involved in these incidents had any desire to kill anyone. What I think does happen is that they want to do their jobs and return home alive. If you haven't been around police groups on the internet, they pass around videos that are basically opposite of black lives matter. They are looking at videos of police officers like themselves being shot, stabbed, or otherwise hurt/killed during very routine encounters that police have all day every day. They get scared, how can they not? Scared people in situations like this make quick choices with permanent consequences. Maybe it's justified, maybe it isn't. Maybe they did everything right according to the law and their training but it was still the wrong thing.... maybe it was the only choice that let them come home to their family that night. Who knows, every incident is different.

Then again what about the other end of it? All these black people can't possibly be this mad for no good reason. I think a lot of us, and I'm no exception here, often look at these incidents and we see a criminal getting shot by the police... or we see someone foolishly fighting with the policeman trying to arrest them(I still just want to ask the folks who try this what leads them to think it will have a good outcome for them). We see these things and we think... well they had it coming or well gee what did you expect to happen. The thing is for the black community these scenarios are playing out really often. It's not a news story to them, it's a neighbor or friend or loved one. The case that this person by the laws and expectations of our society might have had it coming becomes immaterial eventually. People they care about are dying and they think they may be next. Telling someone to just obey the law and barking statistics at them in that situation is a pretty useless gesture.

You have to understand that in a lot of these poor black communities poverty is the norm. Crime is the norm... it's just what happens around them and I don't think it carries the same shame in those communities that it does in our white middle class communities. You have someone born into that world- into that situation and they're going to most likely grow up with no hope for a better life and just go with the flow.... then they end up in confrontations with the police. That's life, then every once in a while it's death. Yes, of course this is America and of course everyone has all sorts of opportunities. There are scholarships and programs and grants and things. We try to give people from these situations a leg up in college, in the hiring process, and so on. Fine. But for someone growing up in that world- in that kind of situation the odds are still not in their favor. It takes a very exceptional person to rise up above all that and become a success and some do. Most people by definition are not exceptional. This situation that black people are in is the legacy of slavery and racism in America- we may have taken care of those problems for the most part but the aftermath remains.

Now I was born in the 80s. More than a century after the end of slaver, decades after the civil rights/Jim Crowe eras. I do take umbrage at the idea that I am somehow responsible for events that occurred before I was even born. I think most reasonable people would. Also, being a child of the 80s I grew up being told again and again that race doesn't matter. Race doesn't matter, you really shouldn't even acknowledge it because that's racist and racist is the worst thing you can possibly be. We're all equal. Well, we were supposed to be by now at any rate. As I've become older and wiser I've realized that the black kids growing up while I was being told to disregard race were being taught that race is everything. We're all products of our upbringing in the end.

I don't know everything but I am quite sure that figuring out who's fault all of this is won't solve one single thing. That's all people do anymore, find someone else to blame for all the world's problems. If anything is going to get fixed, a lot of people need to start picking up shovels, picking up hammers, mentoring young kids, and so on. These communities aren't going to get better on their own. Someone is going to have to start making an effort. A lot of that effort will have to come from within the communities but it won't have a chance without outside support either. It won't be fixed in a week, a month, a year... or even a decade. Something like this is really hard to do in America because you can't just legislate it into existence and it needs the support of multiple politicians across changing election years and public moods. I'm not sure how you get something like that rolling and I lack to the power and resources to do much myself. I do know that all this finger pointing just makes things worse.
 
James331 said:
I'm a white guy, I have a profession the LE folks respect/depend on, drive nice cars and am well spoken, even I've seen this spectactical still in Iraq mindset some of these dudes have, it's got no place in this country, folks are clearly getting sick of it, and it actually makes police LESS SAFE.
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You are demonstrating ignorance of what is really happening. You are on the path of becoming a useful tool to the authorities you have such disdain for, because you follow the easy narrative. Working as an ambulance driver doesn't give you any real insight as to the reality on the street, from a cops perspective.
 
Everskyward said:
So you need to resort to insults when you don't have an answer?

I'm going to regret posting this. ;)
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Fair enough, what I'm saying is without open discussion and people speaking their minds, even when it wasn't in favor of the government, we would have never had any of the revolutions on the planet that we have had, we wouldn't have the freedoms we have.


Cooter143 said:
You are demonstrating ignorance of what is really happening. You are on the path of becoming a useful tool to the authorities you have such disdain for, because you follow the easy narrative. Working as an ambulance driver doesn't give you any real insight as to the reality on the street, from a cops perspective.
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That wasn't my point, my point is there is a amount of extra leeway I've found emergency folks get from other emergency folks.



Side note, and my experience on this type of matter.

A few years ago I was working on restoring a truck, at one point I had to move it couple blocks away for some paint, the truck was running, 100% street legal, but the paint was just in primer for this little hop, I had work clothes on, complete with some paint and whatnot on them, driving he speed limit, turn signals, etc.

A cop drives by me, flips a hard u turn and follows me, I make my turn up the road cop lights me up, uhh OK.

He asks me to get out of the car, OK, he's got his hand on his side arm, I said something like "easy killer, I'm just taking this thing to the paint shop", dude asks for my ID, handcuffs me, runs my info, lets me go. This was because I looked poor, I was dirty and driving a truck in primer.

Other time, I got pulled over, 50 in a 30, 4 lane speed trap kinda road, but my bad, I was in my late model vette, fresh wax, dressed up, guy walks over, hands off his weapons, "nice car, know why I'm pulling you over", "nope", "you were going 50 in a 30", "sorry bout that" asks for my license, doesn't even go back to his car, looks at it hands it back and says "slow down, you're free to go".

I've also have driven by police many times and they don't even look at me, yet a older ratty Honda drives by a stopped police car, same speed as me, they will follow and 80% of the time they are getting pulled over for "something"

I don't condone what's going on, but it doesn't surprise me ether.
 
James331 said:
Fair enough, what I'm saying is without open discussion and people speaking their minds, even when it wasn't in favor of the government, we would have never had any of the revolutions on the planet that we have had, we wouldn't have the freedoms we have.





That wasn't my point, my point is there is a amount of extra leeway I've found emergency folks get from other emergency folks.



Side note, and my experience on this type of matter.

A few years ago I was working on restoring a truck, at one point I had to move it couple blocks away for some paint, the truck was running, 100% street legal, but the paint was just in primer for this little hop, I had work clothes on, complete with some paint and whatnot on them, driving he speed limit, turn signals, etc.

A cop drives by me, flips a hard u turn and follows me, I make my turn up the road cop lights me up, uhh OK.

He asks me to get out of the car, OK, he's got his hand on his side arm, I said something like "easy killer, I'm just taking this thing to the paint shop", dude asks for my ID, handcuffs me, runs my info, lets me go. This was because I looked poor, I was dirty and driving a truck in primer.

Other time, I got pulled over, 50 in a 30, 4 lane speed trap kinda road, but my bad, I was in my late model vette, fresh wax, dressed up, guy walks over, hands off his weapons, "nice car, know why I'm pulling you over", "nope", "you were going 50 in a 30", "sorry bout that" asks for my license, doesn't even go back to his car, looks at it hands it back and says "slow down, you're free to go".

I've also have driven by police many times and they don't even look at me, yet a older ratty Honda drives by a stopped police car, same speed as me, they will follow and 80% of the time they are getting pulled over for "something"

I don't condone what's going on, but it doesn't surprise me ether.
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Have you ever considered that there is a valid reason as to why this happens? Gotta do some other things now, but I'll try to pass a little insight from the other side when I get some time.
 
James331 said:
.... This was because I looked poor, I was dirty and driving a truck in primer...
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He told you this? These were his words? Was it the same cop when you were in the 'vette?

I'm sure I can find a wealthy person that could tell the same story, reversed, and how because they are wealthy, the cop felt they could "afford" the ticket, while letting the poor go free...
 
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James331 said:
Fair enough, what I'm saying is without open discussion and people speaking their minds, even when it wasn't in favor of the government, we would have never had any of the revolutions on the planet that we have had, we wouldn't have the freedoms we have.
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Agree, but I wasn't necessarily referring to people who speak out against the government. I was talking about people *on all sides* who use inflammatory language. Just because they can, doesn't meant they should, at least not in my opinion.
 
So, they identified one of the shooters as Micah Xavier Johnson, an enlisted soldier who had served in Afghanistan. I wouldn't be surprised if the other shooters were also military, given the style of the assault and reports that they had been wearing bulletproof vests. The way this thing had been planned and executed seemed... and I say this with disgust... professional. Meaning they knew what they were doing.
 
cowman said:
Since we're already headed off the deep end a bit with guns and censorship I'm just gonna say my piece on this.

To really wrap one's head around these events I think you need to start with a concept that we as pilots should be very familiar with. The typical human being is well meaning, relatively honest, is generally trying their best, and is in the end flawed and prone to error. . . I'm not sure how you get something like that rolling and I lack to the power and resources to do much myself. I do know that all this finger pointing just makes things worse.
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Agree 100%. Excellent post.
 
Our culture is obsessed with, and glorifies, violence; from the silver screen to the boob tube to video games. It's no wonder we are turning on one another.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
So, they identified one of the shooters as Micah Xavier Johnson, an enlisted soldier who had served in Afghanistan. I wouldn't be surprised if the other shooters were also military, given the style of the assault and reports that they had been wearing bulletproof vests. The way this thing had been planned and executed seemed... and I say this with disgust... professional. Meaning they knew what they were doing.
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If you understand the origins of BLM, that should come as no surprise.
 
Folks, this needs to be kept in perspective, this, like the Orlando Shooting are the act of an sick individual who believes the rhetoric of the race baiters, it is not the fault of society. Society as a whole are well mannered GOD fearing people of all heritage.
We are all, (every one of us) a product of our heritage and our education. You can't change your heritage, we can change the BS we are teaching our next generation.
 
Tom-D said:
Folks, this needs to be kept in perspective, this, like the Orlando Shooting are the act of an sick individual who believes the rhetoric of the race baiters, it is not the fault of society. Society as a whole are well mannered GOD fearing people of all heritage.
We are all, (every one of us) a product of our heritage and our education. You can't change your heritage, we can change the BS we are teaching our next generation.
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so you are saying society should not have bumped the prop when looking in to read the gauge? I kidd I kidd.
 
James331 said:
"Extreme rhetoric" isn't that the modern definition of the old saying of someone not keeping with "the party line"?

I don't think it's "extreme" for folks to get ****ed when cops are getting a little John Wayne and trigger happy.

I'm a white guy, I have a profession the LE folks respect/depend on, drive nice cars and am well spoken, even I've seen this spectactical still in Iraq mindset some of these dudes have, it's got no place in this country, folks are clearly getting sick of it, and it actually makes police LESS SAFE.
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I agree with much of what you said. People have reason to be upset. But to me, the extreme rhetoric of "sometimes the tree of liberty must be watered in blood" on the one hand, and "arm yourself or harm yourself" on the other are both irresponsible sides of the same coin.

Everybody's shouting. Nobody's listening. Newt Gingrich said something today I never thought I'd hear from him, and it gained my respect. He said "Whites have no idea what it's like to be black in America", and went on to enumerate a fairly lengthy, very insightful list as to to why. Contrast that with Illinois one term congressman Joe Walsh who spewed idiocy in 142 characters that I won't dignify here.

Words matter, and we should be wise in the ones we choose.
 
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Tom-D said:
Folks, this needs to be kept in perspective, this, like the Orlando Shooting are the act of an sick individual who believes the rhetoric of the race baiters, it is not the fault of society. Society as a whole are well mannered GOD fearing people of all heritage.
We are all, (every one of us) a product of our heritage and our education. You can't change your heritage, we can change the BS we are teaching our next generation.
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I don't really understand your post. Are the race baiters also a product of their heritage and education? Are they somehow exempted from society? It seems on one had you're saying it's not society's fault, but on the other we need to teach and shape the next generation to correct our problems. Which incidentally would be changing the society. I'm just trying to see what your main point was.
 
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