5 dead in an RV-10?

I saw an RV-10 at a backwater fly-in disgorge three adults, two kids, and two dogs. That thing was like a clown car.

RIP to those involved in this incident and condolences to their families.
 
bullwinkle said:
I saw an RV-10 at a backwater fly-in disgorge three adults, two kids, and two dogs. That thing was like a clown car.

RIP to those involved in this incident and condolences to their families.
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It was probably him. This guy was from Georgia too.
 
bullwinkle said:
I saw an RV-10 at a backwater fly-in disgorge three adults, two kids, and two dogs. That thing was like a clown car.
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I saw that many (minus dogs) get out of a Luscombe Silvaire.

But I think the pilot had a certificate, so it was OK.
 
Well, this has drifted a bit...

FWIW - I ran some loading combinations thru my RV10 W&B - 2700lb gross. Noting that at least some of the occupants appeared to close to standard people, I can put 780lbs of people and 40 gals of fuel in mine and stay at gross and within the CG range. That's 4X170 and 1x100.

Now it requires that the 100lb is squeezed into the the back seat and (she) could probably weigh as much as 130 and stay within CG if not gross weight. None of that is particularly hard to do at 2:30am

However, change that to a 95 pounder and you can put her in the rear baggage and be at the aft limit.

Good plane, sad accident.
 
Brad Z said:
It was probably him. This guy was from Georgia too.
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Possibly, but I don't think so. The pilot's age was about right, but I talked to him a bit and he seemed very knowledgeable.
 
Bill Watson said:
Well, this has drifted a bit...

FWIW - I ran some loading combinations thru my RV10 W&B - 2700lb gross. Noting that at least some of the occupants appeared to close to standard people, I can put 780lbs of people and 40 gals of fuel in mine and stay at gross and within the CG range. That's 4X170 and 1x100.

Now it requires that the 100lb is squeezed into the the back seat and (she) could probably weigh as much as 130 and stay within CG if not gross weight. None of that is particularly hard to do at 2:30am

However, change that to a 95 pounder and you can put her in the rear baggage and be at the aft limit.

Good plane, sad accident.
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Exactly right. I've loaded my RV-10 up to 2800# gross weight and never had an issue. It certainly flies "heavy", but certainly controllable in flight.
 
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Geico266 said:
Exactly right. I've loaded my RV-10 up to 2800# gross weight and never had an issue. It certainly flies "heavy", but certainly controllable in flight.
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I'm sure a gross of 2800 is fine. I've operated at 2700 off long grass without a problem and can't say that it felt 'heavy' at all. Very unlike my 180hp Maule which got your attention with 3 and baggage if you had to take off uphill. STOL is one thing but HP talks. (Actually it's all about the numbers and an accurate assessment of conditions)

For those of you still planning your aviation future, get a light weight mate! My thick bod is nicely countered by my petite co-pilot - together we are a normal, I mean straight, I mean 2 standard people. We recently traveled a bit with some friends who were our opposites - he was, well, petite, and she was more amazonian, but together just another standard pair. And they travel light... a great pair to travel with.

Thank you for following this, you may return to the analysis of this tragic accident.
 
dell30rb said:
I put the blame on the pilot, not the kids. How many times have your passengers asked to see your pilot's certificate? Not many people even know what one looks like.

My point is that the owner of the RV-10 represented himself as a pilot and the kids (reasonably) assumed that meant he was FAA certified and competent. This all goes out the window if the kids knew the pilot was drinking, but so far that is just a guess based on the time of day.

Before anyone starts calling for more regulations/"checks" etc.. remember these types of accidents are extremely rare. Flying at night, no pilot's certificate, overloaded on people and possibly booze... there are no common sense rules the FAA could implement to have stopped this guy.
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A logical conclusion at face value. But ....

My guess is this happened in "small town U.S.A." and my gut feeling is all the locals knew Clem( I am gonna call the person trying to fly the plane Clem)...

Most probably all those who died knew Clem way before the crash, they also probably knew he built his plane and didn't even have a pilots certificate but considered him competent enough to fly them around at 2:30 AM... They had a chance to say " No thanks Clem, I have to go to work in few hours".. Surely one of those 4 had a job to go to ..:dunno:

There is WAY more to this story that will leak out as the lawsuits start to fly.. And my guess it will make a Jerry Springer show pale in comparison.:redface: IMHO...
 
So....what kind of enforcement action does a FSDO take with a non-certified individual? ....kinda easy if you have something to take.:yes:
 
Brad Z said:
Civil penalties, i.e. fines.
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FAA can't fine AFAIK. Best they could do is get a judge to order a person not to fly and if they then do they're in contempt.
 
Captain said:
FAA can't fine AFAIK. Best they could do is get a judge to order a person not to fly and if they then do they're in contempt.
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I think anyone uncertificated giving passengers a joyride in an overloaded plane at 2:30am is already in "contempt", at least by the common-sense and dictionary definition. So that won't change anything.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
So....what kind of enforcement action does a FSDO take with a non-certified individual? ....kinda easy if you have something to take.:yes:
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Well, seeing how he is dead now, not much. They can assess civil penalties in five figures.
 
Captain said:
FAA can't fine AFAIK. Best they could do is get a judge to order a person not to fly and if they then do they're in contempt.
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flyingron said:
Why not? The FAA can assess civil penalties up to $50,000 per violation against individuals.
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Correct.

Under FAA Order 2150.3b, and there is a table in one of the appendixes that details fines and amounts.
 
Isn't the primary issue the guy was not licensed? And was either ignorant or chose to ignore the basics and got everyone including himself killed?
 
d5by5 said:
Isn't the primary issue the guy was not licensed? And was either ignorant or chose to ignore the basics and got everyone including himself killed?
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The primary issue is that he crashed the airplane. Everything else is just an unbroken chain of events leading to his demise.

If he hadn't crashed the airplane, none of the other issues would have come to the fore.
 
Here is one local citizen's pov...

"I don't even need to read through all the comments that are being said to let mr. xxxxx know this....its our community, our friends, our family, and our way of doing things around here. Who cares this or that wasn't filled out or was or was not certified. We flew often and was just a regular thing to do. We are all close around in this area regardless of the age difference. Get your s$@t together bc obviously you do not know us in our community"
 
RV10flyer said:
Here is one local citizen's pov...

"I don't even need to read through all the comments that are being said to let mr. xxxxx know this....its our community, our friends, our family, and our way of doing things around here. Who cares this or that wasn't filled out or was or was not certified. We flew often and was just a regular thing to do. We are all close around in this area regardless of the age difference. Get your s$@t together bc obviously you do not know us in our community"
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Nice..
 
The RV-10 wreckage was transported to Atlanta Friday 9/18/15.
 
RV10flyer said:
Here is one local citizen's pov...

"I don't even need to read through all the comments that are being said to let mr. xxxxx know this....its our community, our friends, our family, and our way of doing things around here. Who cares this or that wasn't filled out or was or was not certified. We flew often and was just a regular thing to do. We are all close around in this area regardless of the age difference. Get your s$@t together bc obviously you do not know us in our community"
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Pretty much nails it. I would bet the FAA would be interested in that comment and conducting a few ramp checks in that area. What a bunch of redneck hicks. You just can't fix stupid, even when 5 young people are killed. :rolleyes2:
 
Seriously, he's telling other people to get their s$@T together?! They just had 5 people die from "our way of doing things".
 
Fearless Tower said:
The real tragedy here is the wife who is now wondering if she is going to be able to feed her family when the lawyers are through.
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I think you might be pleasantly surprised that such a situation may not happen. If the guy didn't have insurance, which I can't see how he did or if he did he likely would not be covered or indemnified. However, many states have tenancy by the entireties rules which prevent accessing assets held jointly between husband and wife from the liability of just one of them.

Again this is such a tragedy, I fear the NTSB report is going to read like a text on everything not to do.
 
AdamZ said:
I think you might be pleasantly surprised that such a situation may not happen. If the guy didn't have insurance, which I can't see how he did or if he did he likely would not be covered or indemnified. However, many states have tenancy by the entireties rules which prevent accessing assets held jointly between husband and wife from the liability of just one of them.

Again this is such a tragedy, I fear the NTSB report is going to read like a text on everything not to do.
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Are you saying that the families of the deceased kids can't sue the estate of the pilot who was responsible for their deaths?
 
Geico266 said:
Pretty much nails it. I would bet the FAA would be interested in that comment and conducting a few ramp checks in that area. What a bunch of redneck hicks. You just can't fix stupid, even when 5 young people are killed. :rolleyes2:
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From post 88.....

"
A logical conclusion at face value. But ....

My guess is this happened in "small town U.S.A." and my gut feeling is all the locals knew Clem( I am gonna call the person trying to fly the plane Clem)...

Most probably all those who died knew Clem way before the crash, they also probably knew he built his plane and didn't even have a pilots certificate but considered him competent enough to fly them around at 2:30 AM... They had a chance to say " No thanks Clem, I have to go to work in few hours".. Surely one of those 4 had a job to go to ..:dunno:

There is WAY more to this story that will leak out as the lawsuits start to fly.. And my guess it will make a Jerry Springer show pale in comparison.:redface: IMHO... __________________
Ben
Jackson Hole Wy.
 www.haaspowerair.com..


The prosecution rests your honor.......:rolleyes:
 
I really doubt that, even in small towns, most non-pilots are NOT knowledgeable enough to ask a pilot if he's certificated or not. They just assume he is. Personally, I'll be surprised if the 20 somethings knew this guy was totally rogue.
 
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DFH65 said:
...news flash life is dangerous and people who don't follow rules are not going to follow rules just because you make more...
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Will people be safer if you remove rules? :dunno:

I nearly got crucified in the thread mentioned earlier by Mark just by asking how to report a guy. Not gonna jump into this one.

Condolences and RIP.
 
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docmirror said:
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She only shared this at 1:32 AM.

12003349_869992243049141_577201828014619521_n.jpg
 
Fearless Tower said:
Are you saying that the families of the deceased kids can't sue the estate of the pilot who was responsible for their deaths?
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They can sue the estate but none of the assets jointly held are considered estate assets. The wife becomes full owner by operation of law at the moment of death. The IRS is about the only creditor that can overcome tenancy by the entirety ownership, and even then they can only go after his half share of an asset.
 
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timwinters said:
I really doubt that, even in small towns, most non-pilots are knowledgeable enough to ask a pilot if he's certificated or not. They just assume he is. Personally, I'll be surprised if the 20 somethings knew this guy was totally rogue.
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I doubt most non-pilots know much about certification. They almost certainly don't know anything about currency. Have any of your passengers ever asked to see you certificate? As far as the 20-somethings go, it's a real tragedy, but I can remember things I did as a passenger with people in airplanes, and (especially) cars, when I was 20-something, which could easily have turned into a news story. Many brag about what they did as young people but we were the ones who survived. Others didn't.

I don't think a piece of paper causes you to be competent, or not. But there is some correlation.
 
AdamZ said:
Again this is such a tragedy, I fear the NTSB report is going to read like a text on everything not to do.
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I'm sure it will.

Wouldn't be surprised if little is made of the certification issue in the NTSB report, especially if the guy has been flying for awhile. They will just state the fact but not include it in probable cause. Am I wrong?
 
overdrive148 said:
She only shared this at 1:32 AM.

12003349_869992243049141_577201828014619521_n.jpg
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Hmmmm...

And she was dead 1 hour later...:sad::sad:

Now a possible relationship issue has surfaced.....

She might have been sitting in the front passengers lap and either accidentely ( or ) on purpose pushed forward on the stick.. :dunno:..

From the description of the crash site, I bet all of them were throw out as it broke apart going through the tree tops...
 
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